Help me suck less at Blood Bowl

BloatedGuppy

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I recently grabbed Blood Bowl: Legendary Edition off Steam because it was on sale, and because I'd been interested in it for a while. I've played about a dozen games of it so far. I'm complete rubbish.

My best result was a 2-2 tie, in which a bunch of high elves pranced through my rickety defense for an easy touchdown in the final frame. The rest were all losses. Punitive, humiliating losses.

Now, I see there are a lot of threads online about the AI cheating and what not, but that seems like normal human whining about random outcomes. I don't want to be one of those people who takes a game that has some random input (cough, X-Com, cough) and assume that it's entirely to blame for my predicament, because it's far more likely that I just stink.

Are there any basic rules I should be observing? Any easily understood strategies? Any common noob mistakes?

Does anyone even play Blood Bowl?

If not, hey, how about that Walking Dead? It's 87% less shitty this season!
 

Rack

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You're already on the right track, Blood Bowl is a harsh, harsh mistress and the biggest lesson to learn is that no matter how bad it looks, the dice are being fair. Ruthlessly, mercilessly cruelly fair.

These are very basic rules but should get you started.

Pick Dwarves to start with and experiment with Wood Elves after that. Dwarves come with the most critical skill (Block) already so they are very much one of the easiest and most forgiving teams to use in the early game as you are finding your feet. Wood Elves on the other hand are fast enough and talented enough to perform finesse plays with a tiny team and help you learn the other style of play.

There is one core tactic at the core of Blood Bowl. Score late when you have the ball and force your opponent to score early when you don't. There's more to it but this is lesson 1. If you score on turn 7 you should be able to stop your opponent scoring at all when he gets the ball. Then if you can make him score on turn 2 you have six whole turns to score.

Unfortunately the AI doesn't understand this. You can easily win most games by simply capitulating when AI starts with the ball then dragging the game out. Real players won't fall for this.

It goes way way deeper than that, but if you follow this you can win a few games and then go on to explore real tactics. The official forums used to be a great resource for this, I'm not sure if they still are.
 

Tallim

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I play quite a bit of Blood Bowl :D And have done since the original board game came out lol. I just got Chaos Edition, good on them for the big discount for owning an older version.

No the AI doesn't cheat you are quite correct what it does do though is take different amounts of risks depending on difficulty and so people remember those moments when the risks succeed, but not when they don't. It actually can be harder on Easy as it takes more risks and if they pay off then it's harder to stop.



The most important thing to remember when you take a turn in Blood Bowl is do your actions in order of Safest->Riskiest. An early turn over completely ruins any strategy you might have.

Gauging the safety of each move is rather tricky though but gets easier as you learn how everything works. The more dice rolls you have to make, the more chance there is of something going wrong.

Conversely the very basic foundation of the game when you don't have the ball is to impede your opponents progress and force them to make as many dice rolls as you possibly can.


You didn't state what team you've been playing, they are not all equal to start by a long shot and some of them are downright difficult to play as a fresh team. Pick a nice safe bashy team to start, they might not be too exciting but playing them will let you learn the ropes much better without everything going wrong.

As previous poster suggested the Dwarves are rather good for this purpose. Block is a key skill for survival and not getting turnovers and Dwarves are rife with it as a starting skill which makes them much safer than most teams to get stuck in and rather hard to take out.
 

BloatedGuppy

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Rack said:
Pick Dwarves to start with and experiment with Wood Elves after that. Dwarves come with the most critical skill (Block) already so they are very much one of the easiest and most forgiving teams to use in the early game as you are finding your feet. Wood Elves on the other hand are fast enough and talented enough to perform finesse plays with a tiny team and help you learn the other style of play.
Tallim said:
You didn't state what team you've been playing, they are not all equal to start by a long shot and some of them are downright difficult to play as a fresh team. Pick a nice safe bashy team to start, they might not be too exciting but playing them will let you learn the ropes much better without everything going wrong.
I've been playing the Amazons...they have the Blitzers who start with Block/Dodge, which sounded good. I tried the Lizardmen at first and got absolutely ruined. Amazons no good?

I can't say I fully understand Block. I've noticed if I have block and I get a "both down" result, the guy with Block stays up? Or do they just get a chance to stay up? What else does Block do?

I find I have absolutely no idea what to do with really big units, like Treants or Ogres. This is partly because I think I'm over-obsessed with knocking players down and trying to hurt them, and it's virtually impossible with those guys. They wreck my scrimmage line and within a turn or two I've got 2-3 people injured or dazed.

My second major issue is porous defense. At first I tried making a "line" and boxing them in, which felt really clever, until one guy went around it and zoomed downfield in 2 turns. So I've taken to leaving a few people deep, and then I leak receivers into my back field, so I put 1-2 people on each receiver, at which point they promptly make their dodge roll anyway.

So I guess my question is what's a good way to do coverage? Man on man? Double-team anyone going deep? Aggressively attack everyone? Aggressively pursue the ball carrier? Or does it vary completely depending on team?

I'm never really sure what to do with my pre-game cash either, so I've been buying the star player every time because occasionally she stabs people and injures them, which I enjoy.
 

Tallim

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Yes Block on a player make them stay up on a Both Down result, otherwise they will turn over you. This makes blocking with players with Block much safer (Blood Bowl terminology is confusing until you get used to it.)

Equally Dodge as well as giving you an extra attempt on a dodge roll if you fail one also turns a Defender Stumbles result into a push result.

Block however works for both players so if your opponent's player has block and yours doesn't then his player would stay up on a Both Down and yours wouldn't.


In fact if you haven't already I suggest you check out the actual rulebook which is supplied with the Steam versions. It's buried in one of the folders, or alternatively just download the latest version for the boardgame which is what it is anyway. Really read what each skill does on your team.

I like Amazons actually, they start off quite strong but they don't advance very well and become not so great as a season goes on. There are far worse teams you could have picked.

BloatedGuppy said:
 

Rack

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It's worth acquainting yourself with the block dice, the living rulebook is included I think. It's also worth looking up what block, tackle, wrestle and dodge do. Once you understand these blocking won't seem nearly as random. Overall its a board game and knowing the underlying rules is extremely important.

Now, defending. It's somewhere between hard and outright impossible to stop your opponent scoring. But as I mentioned before that isn't the goal, put pressure on his ball carrier by stopping him putting players around it, harry his attempts to move forwards by putting tackle zones through where he needs to go, and put players with catch in places to make interceptions. Do all this and he'll probably score anyway but if you can make him do it on turn 3 or 4 then you can score too. Then all you have to do is hang onto the ball and score late and you can make a 2 - 1 victory.
 

BloatedGuppy

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Tallim said:
Rack said:
Won my first game, 2-0, over the...Necromancers? Flesh Golems and Wolves and Wights and Zombies. It was a bloodbath, 5 injuries per side. Thanks for the tips guys. I focused less on trying to batter down everything in sight (although you wouldn't notice by the body count) and more on running the clock down whenever the AI had possession. 78% possession for the AI, no touchdowns. Felt good!

I got a level on one of my Lineswomen, gave her "Tackle". It was a toss up between that, Block, and "Pro". I'm getting tired of receivers prancing through my lines with Dodge, though.

A question about fouls...I had 2 bribes for the game, so I was fouling like a maniac, and I got three fouls off before I even needed to use a bribe. Is it a good idea to just foul like crazy, Bribes or no? Does it matter how many teammates are around the target when you foul?

Final question...what's the best way to deal with "big guys"? Ogres, Flesh Golems...the ones with Mighty Blow and Blockhead and Stand Fast and all that stuff. I always focus on them early and try to whittle them down, otherwise they seem to brutalize my line. Is that stupid? Should I just be leaving them alone? It seems to be a real battle of attrition to even get one off the field.
 

Gavmando

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BloatedGuppy said:
Won my first game, 2-0, over the...Necromancers? Flesh Golems and Wolves and Wights and Zombies. It was a bloodbath, 5 injuries per side. Thanks for the tips guys. I focused less on trying to batter down everything in sight (although you wouldn't notice by the body count) and more on running the clock down whenever the AI had possession. 78% possession for the AI, no touchdowns. Felt good!

I got a level on one of my Lineswomen, gave her "Tackle". It was a toss up between that, Block, and "Pro". I'm getting tired of receivers prancing through my lines with Dodge, though.

A question about fouls...I had 2 bribes for the game, so I was fouling like a maniac, and I got three fouls off before I even needed to use a bribe. Is it a good idea to just foul like crazy, Bribes or no? Does it matter how many teammates are around the target when you foul?

Final question...what's the best way to deal with "big guys"? Ogres, Flesh Golems...the ones with Mighty Blow and Blockhead and Stand Fast and all that stuff. I always focus on them early and try to whittle them down, otherwise they seem to brutalize my line. Is that stupid? Should I just be leaving them alone? It seems to be a real battle of attrition to even get one off the field.

Congrats on your win dude.

Giving your lineswoman tackle was a good idea. Next, you need to give her block, then guard. She'll be a nightmare on the line of scrimage.

Foul like crazy! Blood Bowl is all about hurting the other team as much as you can. (Can you tell I play dwarves?) But as for buying bribes, I reckon one is enough. There are better pre-game inducements to spend your money on. Like agility and strength potions. I dont usually buy any bribes when I play. And the more players you have around someone when you foul makes it easier to penetrate their armour. But if the helpers are in an opponants tackle zone, then they cant assist the foul. Just be prepared to loose a player if they get sent off.

The big guys arnt really that scary. They can only hit one player per turn. (Unless they have multiple block.) Though they do hit them pretty hard. Just gang up on them and try to push them back. And dont follow up. Make them move the next turn. That way, the opposition has to use their blitz to hit you with their big guy. Isolate them then make them come to you. Also, take out the other players around the big guy so that it's easier to gang up on him.

I had a campaign going with Amazons, and I reckon they're awesome. They all come with dodge, which is an agility skill and harder to get, and I upgraded them all to have block, which is a general skill which is easier to get. The only way you could knock them down was with the "big 'splosion" dice roll. They could stand up to pretty much anything. Except a dwarf though... (Dwarves have tackle which negates the dodge skill both in dodging out of a tackle zone and on the blocking dice.)

In your pre-game inducements, I always do the training. I always go for agility because fumbling the ball after kick off will turn you into a homocidal maniac. Just be careful with the training. The greater percantage chance you have of gaining a point, means a greater chance of not clicking in time and your player having to sit out the game.
The other thing I do is go for potions. Increasing your strength and agility is really, really handy. With Amazons I usually go for agility. You can make them into a pretty good passing team if you have a thrower and a catcher with agility 4.

I always found that the hardest teams to play were the elves. They all have ag4 and they just jump through your line with ease. And they're in your half in no time. The only way I found to combat them was with tackle zones. Dodgeing into a tackle zone comes with a -1 modifier. (At least I think it did 15 years ago in the board game.) So get them to dodge into your tackle zones as much as possible.

All the best man. :)
 

HellsingerAngel

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BloatedGuppy said:
I'm actually really surprised with the advise you got. Very minimal and glossed over some important tactics that you really should know going into the game, especially with the types of questions you're asking. So, it'll be a bit of a read, but I'll try to cover as much as I can below...

In Blood Bowl there are three general types of strategy a team will follow: bashing or bashy, passing or elfy and trick.

Bashing: These teams excel at exactly how you tried to coach when you first started out, bashing a team into submission. The goal of a bashy team is to try and cause as many injuries as possible until they out number the other team. Bashy teams aren't particularly fast so it can safely be assumed they will have low scoring games and rely more of defensive plays as well as slow grinds to the end zone. Good examples of bashy teams are Orcs, Chaos and Dwarves.

Passing: These teams excel at making huge plays in very few turns. They're often very good at dodging and splitting a players defense to have more options in the back field for long pass plays. You'll want to focus on making sure you have a solid thrower to grab the ball as quickly as possible after kick-off and plenty of players who can get to the end zone without getting bogged down in the opponent's defensive line. Wood Elves, Humans and High Elves are all typical passing teams.

Trick: Trick play teams are ones who neither excel at bashing nor passing, but have a combination of their tactics, usually with a twist added for flavour. While it's difficult to pin down an exact strategy with most trick teams (as their trick varies from team to team) it's safe to assume most trick teams will try to run the ball like a bashy team, but rely on dodging or short passes rather than blocking to move more efficiently. Often times, however, a trick team will have a gimmick or particular player types that accomplishes the goal of either being bashy to elfy but uses strange rules to do so. A good example of this is the Dark Elf Assassin who can disable players and even the ball carrier (which they are especially adept at) but without throwing a typical block. Good examples of trick teams are Lizardmen (Skinks play elfy, Saurus and Kroxigors play bashy), Dark Elves (higher base stats and assassins to help run the ball) and Goblins (lots of secret weapons and two Big Guys).

Throwing blocks is probably one of the most important rules you need to understand in the game. Luckily, it's pretty easy. The amount of dice you get to throw on a block is determined by a direct measurement of the blocker's strength score versus the target's strength score. If the blocker's strength is greater than the target's, he rolls two dice. Anything less and it's one die. If the blocker's strength happens to be double or greater, you get three dice! This number is modified by two other variables: players who can assist the blocker and players who can assist the target. Each model in contact with the opposing model (ex. defenders in contact with the blocker) confer a +1 to the player they're assisting. This means that an assisting model in contact with another assisting model cancel eachother out. This even extends to models not within base contact of the blocker/target, but just with the assisting model.

http://www.play-creator.com/viewplay.asp?viewplay=10884

In the example above, the blocker ends up getting a +1 in that situation because his teammate is distracting on of the target's assisting team member's from behind, freeing up one of his team mates to assist him with the block. If the blocker and target has the same strength scores, the blocker would throw two dice for the block because of that +1!

As I said before, throwing blocks is probably one of the most important aspects of the game, which is why defending your ball carrier is a skill all within itself. The penultimate strategy of every coach is to use what's called a cage.

The Cage: A cage is the tactic of placing as many tackle zones (I.E. areas that the opposing team has to run through that you get to throw a free block against them) around your ball carrier as humanly (or orcily, as the case may be) possible as well as maximizing the dice you get to throw on those blocks. Depending on your team's play style, you may want to consider having a very tight cage or a very loose cage to take advantage of how much you plan to pass or run the ball, as well as how good you are at throwing blocks through defensive lines. Below are some examples of cages.

http://www.play-creator.com/viewplay.asp?viewplay=10885
A typical Blood Bowl Cage

http://www.play-creator.com/viewplay.asp?viewplay=10886
A very tight cage for bashy teams

http://www.play-creator.com/viewplay.asp?viewplay=10887
Loose cage for elfy teams

http://www.play-creator.com/viewplay.asp?viewplay=10888
A loose cage with extra protection

As with throwing a block, you get to add +1 for every player adjacent to the player who provoking a block from running through a tackle zone.

Since you've gotten the rest of the basics already (waste time when you have the ball, do all non dice rolling actions first, get skills that eliminate bad rolls on the dice) I'll just go over your two questions.

Committing a foul works just like the second phase of throwing a block, fouler's strength score versus the target's armour value to determine if the player is injured and has to roll on the injury table. Every player assisting the fouler adds a +1 to their strength roll. This is good because the minimum result on the injury table is to be knocked unconscious (the little bell ringing over a player's head) which takes them off their field until the regain consciousness (rolling 4-6 after someone scores or at the end of the first half). The problem with this is that there's also a random chance the referee might see you fouling and send your player off for the rest of the game (no rolling to come back!) which is bad, especially if the opposing player you fouled just gets right back up next drive.

Bribing the Ref is a special perk you can buy before each match that eliminates one instance in which a referee bans a player from the rest of the game. Most players use Bribe the Ref to keep players with the special rule Secret Weapon (they must be banned from the match after the drive they were placed on the field ends) in the game for an extra drive. It's also a useful perk to buy if you have an extremely bashy team and you want to commit a few fouls here and there, though the best bashy teams typically take advantage of the roll against armour on the initial block their throw through skills like Mighty Blow and Pile On. Still, being able to safely foul players for a little while is always a good thing!

Big Guys: Almost every team has one, and sometimes even more than one. These are the big, slow, dumb bashy guys on any team. The most unique thing about a Big Guy is that they have multiple advantages, but always have a disadvantage in which they must roll to see if they can act. Often times there are serious side effects if they fail (Really Stupid characters don't emit tackle zones when they're afflicted by failing their Really Stupid roll) while other just have special stipulations (Wild Animal normally fails on a 1-3, but if the model blitzes he only fails on a one). To counteract these drawbacks, Big Guys start with multiple skills that help them be better players when they are acting, and often have very high strength scores which automatically make them great blockers for your front line. Be careful, though, because a Big Guy without support around him can easily get surrounded and taken out by a gang of weaker players through massive assist bonuses on a block! A good strategy is to try and tackle the opposing player's Big Guy right off the line on a kick-off by clearing the smaller blockers away from the enemy Big Guy and moving your guys into assist, then, throw a block with your center man and hope you get a good roll on that two dice block!

Overall, just think about what you're doing and ALWAYS remember to play to your team's strengths and make moves that don't involve rolling dice FIRST because a turnover ends your turn!

Happy Blood Bowling!
 

2fish

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If this is a campaign or long term game be sure to cut level 1 or 2 characters that get a bad injury negative stats, niggling injury, ect. It helps long run, but there are times when you have to keep them on due to the fact you cannot replace them and just have to deal with it.

I am not a fan of the star player as they get SPP for the injuries which means your players don?t. I would take a wizard or extra rerolls over the Star Player.

As stated above Block is your best friend, followed by one person getting sure hands. Nothing sucks more than 3 turnovers on the end zone because you can't pick up the damn

Be sure to change the chat box to the dice roll box as it helped me learn what was going on.

If you like Amazons you will probably like Norse and Dark elves.

Skaven, if they get a gutter runner in you backfield kill him or at least have people on him. They are the devil.
 

Tallim

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HellsingerAngel said:
Didn't have time to write much as I had an appointment to play Blood Bowl online amusingly. Was trying not to overwhelm with stuff in the time I had, I probably shouldn't have bothered.

1-1 draw in the end Underworld vs Chaos Dwarves. It's a rare day when I manage to get fewer injuries than my opponent using a fairly fresh Underworld team.

Heh that play-creator site is pretty good except......it doesn't have Underworld :/
 

Bertylicious

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I play Chaos because I am a boss. Playing as Chaos has taught me 2 things:

Never, ever, ever rely on a 4+ to do anything unless you have the potential for 3 re-rolls. The skills Catch and Passing are vital, even for a bashing team.

Your strategy will change depending on how your players evolve. You could end up with a catcher with block and a strength bonus you use as a sort of infiltrating, decoy, tank. It's also possible that your line of scrimmage will get mangled every game and will be forever relegated to being chumps whose sole purpose in life is to be injured/killed whilst your star players get all the glory.
 

BloatedGuppy

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HellsingerAngel said:
Many, many tips!
VERY comprehensive. Thank you. I've been using the "tight" cage, it would seem, when moving up field. I always get bogged down at center and need to try some kind of risky pass out to score. So far it's been effective, but I suspect that's a case of dice luck rather than sound tactics.

2fish said:
I am not a fan of the star player as they get SPP for the injuries which means your players don?t. I would take a wizard or extra rerolls over the Star Player.
It seems like I always have enough petty cash for the Star Player...I take it that stops at some point? Can you ever hire on Star Players? That's probably my major complaint about the game so far...the team feels very generic to me. If this was a more traditional sports game I would have a good idea about all my players and their different skill sets, but these guys all feel bog standard. I get that this probably changes with level ups, but it doesn't make for a very enervating start.

2fish said:
Be sure to change the chat box to the dice roll box as it helped me learn what was going on.
That does sound helpful, thank you.

2fish said:
If you like Amazons you will probably like Norse and Dark elves.
I usually go by aesthetics...the idea of an all-girl side appealed to me. I'm also very curious about the Lizardmen. And I've always liked Chaos in Warhammer, so they appeal as well.
 

Geo Da Sponge

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It's ages since I've played the game itself so I don't really have any tips for playing...

However! I do remember one specific thing about Blood Bowl: Legendary Edition. There are certain player abilities that are not always advantageous to use; I can't remember them very well but I think Pile On is one of them. What's important is that on the standard settings the game is set up to automatically use all abilities without asking you first (I think that's particularly bad in Pile On's case; like I said, I can't remember it very well though). When you start noticing these, you should go into the options menu and fiddle around a bit to change it to the computer asking you if you want to use those abilities rather than automatically taking them.

Other than that, umm... It's just awesome that you're playing. Good luck!
 

Tallim

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BloatedGuppy said:
HellsingerAngel said:
Many, many tips!
VERY comprehensive. Thank you. I've been using the "tight" cage, it would seem, when moving up field. I always get bogged down at center and need to try some kind of risky pass out to score. So far it's been effective, but I suspect that's a case of dice luck rather than sound tactics.

2fish said:
I am not a fan of the star player as they get SPP for the injuries which means your players don?t. I would take a wizard or extra rerolls over the Star Player.
It seems like I always have enough petty cash for the Star Player...I take it that stops at some point? Can you ever hire on Star Players? That's probably my major complaint about the game so far...the team feels very generic to me. If this was a more traditional sports game I would have a good idea about all my players and their different skill sets, but these guys all feel bog standard. I get that this probably changes with level ups, but it doesn't make for a very enervating start.

2fish said:
Be sure to change the chat box to the dice roll box as it helped me learn what was going on.
That does sound helpful, thank you.

2fish said:
If you like Amazons you will probably like Norse and Dark elves.
I usually go by aesthetics...the idea of an all-girl side appealed to me. I'm also very curious about the Lizardmen. And I've always liked Chaos in Warhammer, so they appeal as well.
The petty cash is to balance out the teams. If you've got loads it's usually because your team is less powerful than your opponent. It's based on Team Value or TV.

Amazons are very bog standard. A lot of the other teams have very specialized starting skill sets. You'll certainly notice this if you switch to Lizardmen or one of the more unusual teams like Khemri or Necromantics.

I hate having Khemri opponents as I usually play the weaker agile teams with rubbish armour and the opponent (although not the AI as it's rubbish at non-straightforward teams) normally ignores the ball and just pulps your team until they get to a point where you can no longer mount an effective defence or offence.
 

Tallim

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Geo Da Sponge said:
It's ages since I've played the game itself so I don't really have any tips for playing...

However! I do remember one specific thing about Blood Bowl: Legendary Edition. There are certain player abilities that are not always advantageous to use; I can't remember them very well but I think Pile On is one of them. What's important is that on the standard settings the game is set up to automatically use all abilities without asking you first (I think that's particularly bad in Pile On's case; like I said, I can't remember it very well though). When you start noticing these, you should go into the options menu and fiddle around a bit to change it to the computer asking you if you want to use those abilities rather than automatically taking them.

Other than that, umm... It's just awesome that you're playing. Good luck!
Yeah that sucks completely and you really need to turn off all the ones that can potentially cause you problems. Hail Mary Pass for instance as otherwise every single pass you do with the player with the skill becomes a Hail Mary. Wrestle is another one, very good skill but you do not want to do it all the time.
 

BloatedGuppy

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Tallim said:
The petty cash is to balance out the teams. If you've got loads it's usually because your team is less powerful than your opponent. It's based on Team Value or TV.
I figured that was it. So the better I do, the less petty cash I get to balance the scales? So how does moving up in the ranks work? I take it this isn't a "league" in a traditional sense? It seems more "gamey" than that.

Tallim said:
I hate having Khemri opponents as I usually play the weaker agile teams with rubbish armour and the opponent (although not the AI as it's rubbish at non-straightforward teams) normally ignores the ball and just pulps your team until they get to a point where you can no longer mount an effective defence or offence.
I haven't really checked, but I think my Amazons have terrible armor scores. Maybe this is why I get 2+ injuries per match. I'm probably playing too "Bashy" for such a squishy team. I know when I played Orcs that's exactly what they did, they just clobbered me senseless.
 

Tallim

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BloatedGuppy said:
Tallim said:
The petty cash is to balance out the teams. If you've got loads it's usually because your team is less powerful than your opponent. It's based on Team Value or TV.
I figured that was it. So the better I do, the less petty cash I get to balance the scales? So how does moving up in the ranks work? I take it this isn't a "league" in a traditional sense? It seems more "gamey" than that.

Tallim said:
I hate having Khemri opponents as I usually play the weaker agile teams with rubbish armour and the opponent (although not the AI as it's rubbish at non-straightforward teams) normally ignores the ball and just pulps your team until they get to a point where you can no longer mount an effective defence or offence.
I haven't really checked, but I think my Amazons have terrible armor scores. Maybe this is why I get 2+ injuries per match. I'm probably playing too "Bashy" for such a squishy team. I know when I played Orcs that's exactly what they did, they just clobbered me senseless.
All Amazon players have Armour Value of 7 which is the lowest anyone gets apart from the snotling players on the Ogre team. So yes they are squishy. They do all get Dodge though which is a free reroll on any dodging failure and turns Defender Stumbles results when they get hit into a push.