HELP! REUTERS LINKS NORWAY MURDERS WITH ONLINE GAMING
- Thread starter UnknownGunslinger
- Start date
I am not sure he is actually a neo-nazi or not, but he is referred to as that by the OP. What am I suppose to call him? An unhappy Norwegian?this isnt my name said:
Regardless, he's pretty fucked up for doing what he did and I really doubt it had anything to do with gaming.
yeah, that statement seems a little misplaced, I don't think it's any cause for concern. but that is the kind of wild statement that lacks support we see in a lot of the "news" networked shows... don't think it's a sign of things to come, but if you feel strongly about it, you should write the editors (I'm sure they have a contact link somewhere in there).
now if the headline was "video games caused mass murders in norway", without any evidence or support, I'd be a bit more PO'ed.
now if the headline was "video games caused mass murders in norway", without any evidence or support, I'd be a bit more PO'ed.
Hi I'm aware of this quote and it's one found all around the web and the problem that I have with it is that nowhere as far as I was able to find yet was it verifiable!neoman10 said:
It's not in his "manifesto" e-book or video as I was suggested so far. The links I've been given are leading to similar blog posts and other in-verifiable articles.
Seeing how this quote hasn't yet emerged in a major news outlet it's hard to say, though it probably is true.
However if true and the e-book manifesto is up-loaded in full and it's stated there.
This in no way diminishes my original reaction to the cover story by Victoria Klesty and Gwladys Fouche who if you follow the link I've provided to their story at the time of publishing provided no quotes or references at all in support of their statement that they possess expertise of knowledge of what was on the mind of the perpetrator at the time of his crimes!
Really? How exactly is bias "COMPLETLY fucking" different in an internet forum post or a newspaper article? Bias is bias, it exists in our language be it on a forum post, in everyday conversation, in a book or on TV...SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
Oh well, let me know if you ever manage to run a professional full time news website without a hint of bias in any articles or ever a single slip-up. Of course mentioning video games is stupid, but your being unreasonable to expect such news writers to be journalistic saints to the God of objectivity.
From experience, being polite to people on the internet usually means they will be polite back. If your going to be rude however, your only going to start a flame war. Count yourself lucky i'm not in the mood for such a war.
Nice try, but there is a bias relating to what information you decide to share and what information you choose to discard. I am being extremely technical here, others would say pedantic. On the face of things, and for all intents and purposes, what you wrote is "unbias", it's only if one thinks a bit more then it's not.
In sum a news article pertaining to be objective utters a silly sentence. I say so what? We're only human, no need to get your knickers in a twist about it. Just so long as such mistakes arn't glaring or repeated....It can be difficult writing objectively, and is technically near-impossible to do so.
Heck, journalists have done worse.
It was pretty unsubstantial and out of place in the article, it hits you like a brick wall tbh and I don't know how anybody can miss it. That said, I don't think we should go on a holy crusade about it. Maybe, if they start blaming it as the sole reason, we should do something, but as of now it's better to just let it slide.
You've been reading the Guardian newspaper for 10 years and you've never spotted any mistakes? I've been reading it on and off for five and it doesn't take a wikipedia entry to tell me that the Guardian has a reputation for making mistakes.SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Guardian
I've also spotted typo mistakes on the BBC website and in the Times newspaper, and in even more bias newspapers such Mail i've read entire articles which stand as a pristine example of man's ability to twist facts and information to suit their agenda, but that may be besides the point.
I don't know much about Journalism, i never claimed so, even if i unintentionally implied it. I can still however empathise with peoples other careers. I imagine for instance that the work of a soldier is physically and mentally straining, and i can imagine the work of many journalists is fast-paced and focused around getting and making the next "story".
But for the record i do edit the Features section for a university newspaper, so i am not entirely ignorant how a newspaper works. I've spotted typo errors in the university newspaper before, despite the fact that you are right in that each article get's checked by multiple persons before publication.
If you read lots of news articles, especially on news-websites but less so published newspapers, you'll notice how a lot of the same "facts" there are repeated across multiple news-sites, especially concerning stories which are breaking news and information is scarce of the ground. Concerning the Norwegian terror attacks, these "facts" included "white Norwegian male" "dressed as policeman" "radical right wing agenda" and unfortunately one of the memes that slipped out was also "likes video games", and this will circulate like a virus between multiple news sites because writers want and need content to fill up their word count. In the long run, as information becomes more available, this minor meme will be discarded as more relevant points and opinions emerge.
I'm glad to note you appear have dropped your objection to my point relating to bias&language, and now your objections seem to be based around the fair point that newspapers shouldn't make mistakes by printing irrelevant information or errors in general. I maintain however that while of course papers should try to be accurate as possible, it's unreasonable never to expect a mistake or two to crop up in print.
Try harder.UnknownGunslinger said:
Taking one quote out of context and then forming a video-games-are-being-victimized-movement over it does absolutely nothing to help our cause.
How's this for a change: How about posting the rest of the article where it talks about how he was trying to form a 'Knights-Templars' movement, with imagery for said Knights-Templars inspired by the iconry of videogaming.
Seriously dude, it went on to describe a lot of fantasy bullshit that sounds heavily like it was either inspired by, or inspired from, gaming and/or video gaming.
It'd be like bitching about an article claiming that someone selfnamed 'The Drow Assassin' got the idea from D&D, and thus saying something fucking obvious and correct like that was anti-D&D propaganda.
It isn't anti-gaming agenda... it's a fact. This guy got his inspiration for his 'movement' from video games. That doesn't mean video games made him a whack job. It just means that this whack job got some ideas on how to be a whack job from gaming, rather than movies, or books, or corn flakes.
Chill the fuck out. Cause you know what ELSE is bad reporting? Taking a single statement out of context and blowing it the fuck out of proportion. Re-read the article, please.
Step 1: Mass-murderer claims he was influenced by video games
Step 2: Reuters reports that said mass-murderer was influenced by video games
Step 3: Reuters is biased against video games... wait what?
Honestly, I'm always against the media crying that video games cause violence but in this situation it's kinda hard to claim that it didn't have a hand. In the same way that books and movies have inspired violence before, sometimes it actually does happens and you have to deal with it. Going out and saying "Raaarh Reuters is biased because they claim video games influenced this guy!" is not going to help in any way. If we want to help get video games taken seriously then we can't just run out and rage every time anyone says a bad word about it without looking at all the facts.
Step 2: Reuters reports that said mass-murderer was influenced by video games
Step 3: Reuters is biased against video games... wait what?
Honestly, I'm always against the media crying that video games cause violence but in this situation it's kinda hard to claim that it didn't have a hand. In the same way that books and movies have inspired violence before, sometimes it actually does happens and you have to deal with it. Going out and saying "Raaarh Reuters is biased because they claim video games influenced this guy!" is not going to help in any way. If we want to help get video games taken seriously then we can't just run out and rage every time anyone says a bad word about it without looking at all the facts.
No need for cursing someone you've never met on the internet so could you please chill.DracoSuave said:
Yes I am picking on one sentence in a otheriwise excellent and grounded article.
No, it is not out of context because there was no context given with this sentence in the article itself so please re-read it.
Stating a fact and voicing an opinion about the state of mind of a person at the time of his actions are two very different things! One is journalism, the other is biased journalism.
Not true, if you read actual statements he very clearly names the factors that motivated his actions. He has used social games as excuses for not attending social events - a way to still look normal, and avoid suspicion by others while he worked on planing his criminal acts. He also says he enjoyed Modern Warfare because of its realism despite that he usualy prefers fantasy rpgs.
No where does he say gaming was a influence, motivator or other.
Singling out a factor of youth culture he was involved in and insinuatng it had mind altering influences when not backed-up by anything else but the personal opinions of the writers in an article is a biased article.
Presicesly because this is a fair and well written story, such a statement strikes more and damages us more.
And because Reuters actually cares about the quality of work it's journalist are doing in representing events I think it's imortant to voice out this statement that was given with no context at the time as unfair and insinuating report of events.
The manifesto posted by Breivik, a self-styled founder member of a modern Knights Templar organization, hints at a wider conspiracy of self-appointed crusaders and shows a mind influenced by the fantasy imagery of online gaming.UnknownGunslinger said:
"The order is to serve as an armed Indigenous Rights Organization and as a Crusader Movement (anti-Jihad movement)," he writes in the document, chunks of which are cut and pasted from other far-right, anti-Islam documents on the Internet.
Breivik says he is not against immigrants who integrate and reserves a lot of his fury for a liberal European political establishment he views as promoting Europe's destruction.
He hints at a wider conspiracy in the document, saying that the Knights Templar, a medieval order of crusading warrior monks, had been reconstituted in London in 2002.
Breivik attacks the "Islamic colonisation and Islamisation of Western Europe" and the "rise of cultural Marxism/multi-culturalism."
A video posted on YouTube called "Knights Templar 2083" showed pictures of Breivik, including one of him in a scuba diving outfit pointing an automatic weapon.
Sounds like it's describing some Knights-Templars stuff, stuff inspired by video game fantasy.
As I said... context is key, and the obvious context here is obvious.
In this case tho, it IS a fact, he DID get his inspiration from video games. He even stated it flat out. Seriously. Pay attention to the guy.
Yeah, he's not helping our cause... but the cause is just and right enough that it can withstand one act of journalism posting facts like how his methods were influenced by video-games. Because he SAID it was.
"I see MW2 more as a part of my training-simulation than anything else"
--Anders Behring Breivik
Except... the article just doesn't say he was inspired by video game imagery, it goes on to describe things he has done that were inspired by video game imagery... and obviously so.
Just because you don't like it, don't make it any less true, pal. He's hurting our cause, but silencing the media over it ain't helping ours. Save the rage for portrayals that are genuinely unfair. This guy WAS inspired by video games, and has said so himself. Instead, you should condemn the man and encourage examination of his hatred and mindset, and show that such damaged personalities would have found inspiration for his heinous monstrousities in any media.
Hi, what I found problematic with that story was that there were no facts givenXealeon said:
And yet a statement about the state of his mind during his crimes was made and connected out of everything else that was pointed in the article with social games!No this is no way near the worst article out there I know, but it's one I find very troubling because in an otherwise serious and well written story such unfounded statement was allowed to exist. Reuters is a serious media outlet and I'm sure if pointed out they would reprimand this.
Games were not stated by him as inspiration for his acts, this is the link from which all the statements connecting games to his actions are taken:
[link]http://unitednations.ispnw.org/archives/breivik-manifesto-2011.pdf[/link]
You can find across all the ramblings the few that talk about games and you'll see why I cant agree that they were really an influence:
One states that they can be used as a good cover story for not attending social events and thus escape suspicion by close people, the other says he usually likes Fantasy RPGS, and that Modern Warfare is very realistic.
That's all there is. Can you really use this as a greater influence on his mindset over everything else he talks about!
I'm sorry I just cant agree games were really influencing to his behaviour given what he has said so far about them.DracoSuave said:
I agree context really is key so you can read his actual statements and judge for youself: [link]http://unitednations.ispnw.org/archives/breivik-manifesto-2011.pdf[/link]
The Knights-Templar parts are him talking about the historical knights-templars.
Not video game inspired ones.
And out of all the hateful things he states, the few connected to his video games don't in any way show he had his "mind influenced by the fantasy imagery of online gaming."
He states what a great scapegoat from social events WOW guild excuses can be.
He says he likes fantasy RPGS and the only reason he played MW was because it was realistic and he believed it can be used as tactics education for some reason!
If he said he was reading Tom Clancy although he don't usually likes those book so he can learn tactics from them I dont think it would've been cited on Reuters!
That's all I'm trying to say.