Help with Balders Gate

[Maximum Bert]

Recently I decided to give Baldurs gate another go played it years ago had absolutely no idea what I was doing think I rolled a mage character who had stats below 10 in everything except intelligence which was 14 and not surprisingly got promptly slaughtered. I uninstalled the game and havent bothered since...until now.

I have had a few games of D and D in fifth edition and thought I would go back to Baldurs gate and Baldurs gate 2 but the resolution was terrible so I decided to mod the hell out of it and add in all the side quests some new NPCS update BG1 to BG2 quality and link the campaigns together for a very long game.

Trouble is I am still confused as hell and scouring the internet for hours has got me nowhere on good classes for a a noob all I saw was talk of Kensai/Mage but apparently thats only awesome late game and it does not look user friendly for a beginner. Basically what I decided to do was just choose what I wanted and then game the hell out of it with a save mod to basically create a god character because tbh I am more in it for the story than the gameplay but once I get used to it I certainly would consider making a more realistic character but at the moment I just want to be able to get into it and start to understand it.

I dont want another instance like in BG2 where I played for about 10 hours and then realised what I had chosen really did not work that well.

At the moment I have rolled a fighter/mage elf mullti class probably a stupid choice but whatever.

I have modded my stats to 25 from STR down to CHA which is obviously overkill and makes them ridiculously powerful.

The problem comes with the next bits I am using EE keeper to mod the saves and I have :-

Base HP
Current HP

whats the difference here is base just my base for the level I am at i.e lvl 1 and the current just tracks damage? so base is current maximum and current is if say I was damaged to one HP I could wip open this editor and adjust the value back to the base for insta cheat heal?

Next we have the thing I have zero clue about I have tried messing with it but I still dont know and its

base AC
effective AC
THAC0

Are negative of positive number s better here? what the difference between base AC and effective AC? supposing I wanted to go full on and make a character who almost never missed and almost never got hit/took damage what stats would I put here?

Finally there are resistances again is it better to have a high resistance number or a low/negative one?

I have been opening and closing this game for hours tryin to find out but I am still unsure.

If anyone knows as in regards to the better numbers for this save editor to interpret for the game let me know because I am lost.

Also I am aware I may be `ruining` the game for myself by cheating but my brief experience not cheating and my few experiences with BG2 have made it clear to me that I dont currently have the patience to play the game without a lot of help especially at the moment. If I start to feel too OP I can always adjust the stats later anyway.

Thanks for any help and hopefully I can then get into the game without worrying to much about dying to the first wolf encountered like last time.

 

[Benpasko]

That's 2nd edition. Armor class goes from -10 (best) to 10 (worst). THAC0 stands for To Hit Armor Class 0, and it's exactly what that says. If your thaco is 15, you would need a 5 to hit a 10 and a 25 (After attack bonuses apply, of course) to hit a -10. Regardless of armor class, a natural 20 is always a hit I'm pretty sure.

You want the lowest THAC0 and armor class possible. I don't know Baldur's Gate, but there's what I do know.

Edit: Unless Endtherapture is right. Two seconds, grabbing my 2nd ed player's handbook.
Second Impact: No, the handbook says low THAC0 is good. Unless Baldur's Gate has reversed the way armor class works, the best THAC0 is 1.

 

[endtherapture]

It wouldn't be worth quitting the game and opening Shadowkeeper to restore your HP every time you got damaged. First of all you can't save in combat so cheating on fights wouldn't work there, second of all it'd be incredibly tedious. If you wanna cheat look up the CLUA console codes which allow you to cheat with combining Ctrl and a number or letter key to put a code in.

Lower AC is better. THAC0 means "To Hit Armor Class 0". It's a weird system where you want higher THAC0 for your characters and lower AC, because the lower AC you need a higher roll to hit someone with that AC.

High resistance is better.

Don't be afraid to save scum. BG1 is very fickle with dice rolls and it's often best to just kite and use ranged weapons (which are OP) to get through your early levels until you get used to the system and get more HP and stuff, which makes it easier. It's just the first couple of levels which are brutal.

 

[Maximum Bert]

That's 2nd edition. Armor class goes from -10 (best) to 10 (worst). THAC0 stands for To Hit Armor Class 0, and it's exactly what that says. If your thaco is 15, you would need a 5 to hit a 10 and a 25 (After attack bonuses apply, of course) to hit a -10. Regardless of armor class, a natural 20 is always a hit I'm pretty sure.

You want the lowest THAC0 and armor class possible. I don't know Baldur's Gate, but there's what I do know.

Thankyou for the quick reply I know Baldurs Gate is second edition but I dont know anything about second edition.

So going by what you said would

Base AC - 10
Effective AC - 10
THAC0 - 10

would be good/best then? Do you know the difference between base and effective AC? Also do you know if resistances work the same way i.e -10 resistance better than +10?

Sorry about all the question but its driving me crazy.
EDIT:-

It wouldn't be worth quitting the game and opening Shadowkeeper to restore your HP every time you got damaged. First of all you can't save in combat so cheating on fights wouldn't work there, second of all it'd be incredibly tedious. If you wanna cheat look up the CLUA console codes which allow you to cheat with combining Ctrl and a number or letter key to put a code in.

Lower AC is better. THAC0 means "To Hit Armor Class 0". It's a weird system where you want higher THAC0 for your characters and lower AC, because the lower AC you need a higher roll to hit someone with that AC.

High resistance is better.

Don't be afraid to save scum. BG1 is very fickle with dice rolls and it's often best to just kite and use ranged weapons (which are OP) to get through your early levels until you get used to the system and get more HP and stuff, which makes it easier. It's just the first couple of levels which are brutal.

You posted while I was typing

OK so your saying best would be

Base AC - 10
Effective AC - 10
THAC0 +10

And resistances are better the higher the number so +25?

Ive heard ranged weapons are best especially early on. I have tried save scumming before it works but I found it very tedious especially when I had zero idea what I was doing at the moment I want to keep that to a minimum hence why I am pretty much breaking the game at least at the moment.

 

[Benpasko]

Thankyou for the quick reply I know Baldurs Gate is second edition but I dont know anything about second edition.

So going by what you said would

Base AC - 10
Effective AC - 10
THAC0 - 10

would be good/best then? Do you know the difference between base and effective AC? Also do you know if resistances work the same way i.e -10 resistance better than +10?

Sorry about all the question but its driving me crazy.

You want your THAC0 to be a 1, weaker armor classes will also be hit by the 1 at that point. I'm not familiar with the Base / Effective thing, it's probably just naked armor class versus base + armor + buffs.

Edit: Derp, that's a -10 for your thac0. Never heard of a negative THAC0, see if it breaks I guess?

 

[Maximum Bert]

Thankyou for the quick reply I know Baldurs Gate is second edition but I dont know anything about second edition.

So going by what you said would

Base AC - 10
Effective AC - 10
THAC0 - 10

would be good/best then? Do you know the difference between base and effective AC? Also do you know if resistances work the same way i.e -10 resistance better than +10?

Sorry about all the question but its driving me crazy.

You want your THAC0 to be a 1, weaker armor classes will also be hit by the 1 at that point. I'm not familiar with the Base / Effective thing, it's probably just naked armor class versus base + armor + buffs.

Edit: Derp, that's a -10 for your thac0. Never heard of a negative THAC0, see if it breaks I guess?

Thanks I have gone with

Base and effective AC as -10 still no idea of difference but your explanation sounds about right. I have put my THAC0 as -50 lol just tried it and still missed sometimes but not very often so seems good and it looks like lower spell saving throws are better as well. I dont know about resistances but it looks like higher is better.

Damn this is confusing no wonder they changed it later on. Hopefully I get further than last time if I die easily with stats like that im giving up. Mind you my dice rolls are usually rubbish recently got my character killed in 5th edition so many 1s lol only rolled 2 D20s over a 10 in 24 dice rolls.

 

[endtherapture]

You start off with an AC of 10. If you've got a high DEX your AC goes down (more effective) due to you being more nimble. Wearing armor, shields and enchanted cloaks, rings and certain weapons will further lower your AC (more effective).

Although these systems are all in place until the move to third edition.

 

[The Madman]

Seems like everyone else has helped you out with the details of THACO and AC so I don't need to say much in that respect beyond don't worry about it too much. Seriously, as long as your character isn't as ridiculously imbalanced as, well, your first mage (Those are pretty terrible stats) then even a character that's not ideal will work just fine. Mage also isn't probably the best class to start with, I'd recommend a ranger or fighter honestly as both are consistently useful (Ranger is actually the most deadly throughout much of BG) but also easier to play. Don't worry about missing out, you've got mage companion options aplenty throughout the series.

Just keep in mind that when making a character keep in mind BG has the old-fashioned dice rolling system instead of the point distribution system modern D&D uses, you're kinda expected to cheese that system to the best of your ability just like you would be trying to do in a real D&D game. Roll and re-roll till you've got some real numbers to work with, don't settle for a 14 and some 10's, that's silly, don't settle for less than the best... or until you're bored and are willing to settle for slightly less than the best, that's what the store and recall buttons are for after all. The Enhanced Edition even gives you a neat little total roll number to let you see how well your overall roll was at a glance.

Don't cheat, that takes a lot of the thrill out of progression, just abuse the system. That's not only fine but even to a degree encouraged.

Also remember that the original BG is pretty hardcore at the start in that it's not nearly as forgiving as new games today. As a level 1 snot just leaving Candlekeep you're less than the equivalent of your average wandering citizen that's killed by the dozen when a big fight breaks out in any fantasy setting, but through perseverance and determination you can take that lil' weakling bastard and by the end of Throne of Bhall be so powerful entire countries are trembling in your shadow and ancient Dragons fear to speak your name. That feeling of progression is a decent part of what makes the BG series so satisfying to play even.

So save and save often. Don't be shy with the quicksave button, spam that button before every fight and before every threat. If there's something coming up you're not sure about, quicksave and give it a try. Those wolves and gibberlings that so terrified you early on will be little more than fodder for your weapon soon enough with a little patience and it'll be damned satisfying when it happens too.

If you're familiar with D&D you'll know what I'm saying when I mention that even threats like Beholder and Mindflayer (And you do face both) become trivial by the end, where you're duking it out with demigods and epic level legends that would give even Elminster and Drizzt pause (Also both in the BG series).

 

[StatusNil]

Base and effective AC as -10 still no idea of difference but your explanation sounds about right. I have put my THAC0 as -50 lol just tried it and still missed sometimes but not very often so seems good and it looks like lower spell saving throws are better as well. I dont know about resistances but it looks like higher is better.

Damn this is confusing no wonder they changed it later on. Hopefully I get further than last time if I die easily with stats like that im giving up. Mind you my dice rolls are usually rubbish recently got my character killed in 5th edition so many 1s lol only rolled 2 D20s over a 10 in 24 dice rolls.

Effective AC just means it includes the various temp bonuses and penalties that are in effect at the moment, I think. And yeah, higher resistance is better. Negative THAC0 sounds weird, but maybe it can be taken to mean you have to roll a 1 to hit AC -50 or something...

As for PC class, I've always felt you can't go wrong with a ranger.

 

[broadbandmink]

Thought I'd chime in just to point out that if you're intent on playing through both games with the same character, you should really consider either dual-classing (can only be done by humans) or multi-classing, since those kinds of combos can become almost game-breakingly powerful by the time you hit Throne of Bhaal, at least in my experience.

The one problem that puts me at a loss with these games is party composition. I personally get the impression that one is sort of supposed to create a character that complements whatever companions one may encounter. This was, in my experience, not much of a problem in BG1, but could get decidedly more severe in BG2 if one had made a character of a specific class with a certain alignment which inadvertently filled a role in the party some recruitable character of like alignment already had covered.

 

[The Madman]

The one problem that puts me at a loss with these games is party composition. I personally get the impression that one is sort of supposed to create a character that complements whatever companions one may encounter. This was, in my experience, not much of a problem in BG1, but could get decidedly more severe in BG2 if one had made a character of a specific class with a certain alignment which inadvertently filled a role in the party some recruitable character of like alignment already had covered.

You can complete Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 with any party composition really. Obviously the traditional meat-shield/healer/damage-dealer combo works best but for kicks I've gone without one role or another and been able to complete the game just fine. I also really, really, really like that companions with personality contrary to one another will likely either refuse to work with one another or outright end up fighting it out, gives the characters more personality and gives you the player more reason to care who you pick aside from just min/maxing the most efficient party.

In any case BG1 and 2 both also have kinda default companions as well in the party members you're most likely to encounter early on. With BG1 that's you, Imoen, Khalid/Jaheira, and Minsc/Dynaheir which forms a decently balanced party regardless of what class the player is. That's the group BG2 even assumes you had, though the evil version would be Zhar/Montaron and Edwin + probably Viconia even if she's kinda out of the way in BG1. Slightly less well balanced since Montaron makes a poor meat-shield but again it works regardless of the PC's class and BG2 assumes you've met all of them as well so it works story-wise too. Imoen will stick with you no matter what which is good because she's both a handy thief and makes a decent mage as well. BG2 has a similar 'default' group with Imoen, Jaheira, and Minsc filling all the main roles then most likely Aerie and Keldorn or Viconia finishing up the party with some extra utility + the player.

 

[Maximum Bert]

Thought I'd chime in just to point out that if you're intent on playing through both games with the same character, you should really consider either dual-classing (can only be done by humans) or multi-classing, since those kinds of combos can become almost game-breakingly powerful by the time you hit Throne of Bhaal, at least in my experience.

The one problem that puts me at a loss with these games is party composition. I personally get the impression that one is sort of supposed to create a character that complements whatever companions one may encounter. This was, in my experience, not much of a problem in BG1, but could get decidedly more severe in BG2 if one had made a character of a specific class with a certain alignment which inadvertently filled a role in the party some recruitable character of like alignment already had covered.

Well I am going Multi class Elf as Fighter/Mage simply because after reading a load of sites I decided to say screw it and just chose something I wanted. Also got my custom portrait

As for party members last time I played everyone except Imoen left after a few days royally screwing me over (I rested to much apparently). I was pure mage at the time though so it would take both of my spells to kill anything then I would have to rest as I was defenceless and no I did not use missile weapons like I probably should have.

Im not going to worry about party composition to much this time hence why I have just made my character a demi god I am just gonna see how it goes and if I enjoy it I can always play it again without cheating once I have at least some knowledge of the game.

 

[Aetrion]

The biggest thing for beating those nearly impossible seeming fights in Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 that I found is having someone in your party who can summon minions. Even the meekest most useless monster can eat up that absurd spelltrigger of doom that an enemy mage can open with, or that once a day instant death ability a monster has before you ever move anyone who can actually die into range.

One thing that's really dumb about 2nd edition is that the stats don't all work the same, there is simply a table of bonuses you get for having high stats. Like I think once you hit 25 constitution you just gain constant regeneration. Having really high intelligence on the other hand does next to nothing.

 

[BaronVH]

First of all, the game is very difficult at low levels and does require attention to detail. You should take time in creating the character. I want at least two 18's before continuing on. A Mage is very, very hard early on, since you have low HPs and armor, but can be unstoppable later on. The easiest starting out may be a paladin. Next, go where the story leads you. If you are continually told to go check out a mine, go in that direction. You can go wherever you want, but you do it at your peril. If the game suggests that people are being turned to stone in an area, best get some stone to flesh scrolls. Search everywhere. You also must have a balanced party: rogue, Mage, several fighters, and a healer. Also, you need to be familiar with the spells, and this is difficult if you do not have the manual. Once you go against bad guys with a wizard, you best take them out first. I agree about the minion summoning. Wands of monster summoning with a party with a lot of ranged weapons can take care of most problems.

 

[Maximum Bert]

Cool lots of good advise thanks guys this has been more helpful than me scouring the internet for hours. Almost all threads I have seen assume a reasonable sense of familiarity with the game which I do have with D and D as a whole but not with second edition or with this game(s).

 

[Knight Captain Kerr]

In Baldur's Gate 1 I found Fireball, Charm Person and Sleep to be three very useful spells. Also late in the game I purchased a lot of wands of summon monsters which I used to swarm the last boss, you can buy lots of them in a magic shop in Baldur's Gate. It is kind of cheating though.

Oh at some point in the story you'll have to return to Candlekeep. The game doesn't tell you but you'll be fighting basilisks there who can petrify you with their stare, it's a one hit KO. Before you go back make sure you have some protection against petrification, spells, scrolls, potions, whatever. This really screwed me over the first time I played. I had to hide off screen and launch fireball spells into the darkness to kill the things.

 

[Aetrion]

Things like basilisks are exactly where summoned monsters as cannonfodder become super useful. Alternatively you can make one character of the party the death-soak and just give him every possible immunity item to just make them waste all the enemies death effects.

 

[LordLundar]

To start of with:

Base Hp is an unmodified HP count. Only your dice roll and stat bonuses apply. Current HP is after modifications like enchants or buffs being applied.

THAC0 and AC: Second edition rules handled this oddly. The complex part of it is when rolling for an attack, the attacker would roll a 20 sided die, the Armor Class value (AC) would then be added to the roll and the result would be compared to the attackers THAC0. If the modified roll number was higher than it would be a hit, lower would be a miss. Armor class can go as low as -10 from a base number of 10 and if it goes into the negatives it is subtracted from your roll making it harder. Base AC and Effective AC are similar to the HP levels above where base is a natural unarmored value and effective is after armor, shields and enchants and buffs are applied. For Armor class and THAC0 lower is better with the former going as low as -10 and the latter as low as 1. Remember though that a natural (ie dice roll only) 20 is always considered a hit and a natural 1 is always considered a miss no matter what modifiers are applied.

As an example, say you're trying to hit a combat ready Orc as a level 5 warrior with an unenchanted longsword that you are proficient in. Your THAC0 would be 15 in this case and he's wearing studded leather armor that gives him a 6 to his AC. You roll a 10 on your dice roll. There's no bonuses to attack from weapon skill or enchants so those do not get added. Him wearing studded leather means the 6 is added to your roll fro a modified attack roll of 16. This is one point over your THAC0 so you hit.

Resistances are handled a little more simply. It is a percentile number (0-100) and a roll is done compared to that value. If it is higher, the spell is considered to penetrate the resistance and the resistance is ineffective. If it is equal to or lower than the spell is considered resisted and the resist effect applies. The results are based on the spell and is listed in the saving throw section of the spell. "None" means there is no applicable resistance and thus no need for a roll. "1/2" or "half" means the effect is halved in either damage or effect or both. the description will explain which. "Neg" means the the spell is negated and the spell essentially fizzles out. "Special" means a resist has a result that is not applicable to any of the above and the description will explain what a successful resist means.

Hope that info helps.

 

[broadbandmink]

The biggest thing for beating those nearly impossible seeming fights in Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 that I found is having someone in your party who can summon minions. Even the meekest most useless monster can eat up that absurd spelltrigger of doom that an enemy mage can open with, or that once a day instant death ability a monster has before you ever move anyone who can actually die into range.

Bioware and Black Isle really seemed to just love cramming those kinda fights into the Infinity engine based games. Spell-buffing is a staple of RPGs in general, but in the Baldurs Gate and Icewind Dale series I think one can argue that the developers elevated this to a almost mandatory ritual.

Anyway, since the merits of summon-, fireball-, charm-, and sleep spells have already been covered, I'll just add some other spells I found useful during my playthroughs:

Magic Missile - Simple, straightforward, and effective offensive spell that is actually useful against most enemies you may encounter, even in the later stages of the two games.

Blur + Mirror Image - An excellent combo for mages which can make up for their otherwise comparatively humble AC stats.

Chant - A nice buff which can come in handy in those hairy encounters. Combine with Haste for even better results.

Draw Upon Holy Might - A great buff for priests.

Stinking Cloud, Cloudkill - Along with the already mentioned fireball, these are ideal for surprise attacks from afar.

Call Lightning - I found this to be particularly useful towards the latter stages of the first game.

Haste - IMHO, this is a cornerstone of spell-buffing in general. This spell alone can turn frustrating fights into cakewalks.

Slow - Is there this one enemy that you just can't seem to beat? Throw this at it and pound away..

The following spells are found starting with BG2:

Armor of Faith - Another nice buff for priests. Combine with Draw Upon Holy Might for improved results.

Summon Insects, Insect Plague - Very potent "antidotes" against pesky mages.

Stoneskin - Another great buff for mages that arguably makes them viable for close quarter combat.

Defensive Harmony - Combining this one with Chant and Haste almost makes for overkill in most situations.

Protection From Evil, 10' Radius - Another addition to the combo mentioned above which makes it even more devastating.

Breach + Pierce Magic - Very useful in bringing down those spell protections certain enemies are so fond of.

Death Fog, Incendiary Cloud - More potent spells in the same vein as Stinking Cloud and Cloudkill.

Tenser's Transformation - Combined with Stoneskin your mage essentially becomes a full-fledged fighter.

Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting - Can end fights in one stroke.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

I find Mage to be my go-to class for a BG1/2 playthru. I found the class very underrepresented and thus very hard to get a good, reliable source of magic. There are options for sure. Edwin, if you don't mind an evil party. Aeria, not terrible but not the best companion, and Imoen who cannot be wholly relied upon.

While it is harder at first, the mage is a wonderful yardstick by which to measure progress. No question that finding new equipment and skill point investments do add to all characters, but with mages unlocking high level spells and more slots of those spells, their power grows and grows.

At first, one or two magic missiles is about the extent of a mage's contribution. But with the Robe of Vecna, Staff of the Ram (or similar) and a few levels, I've cast time stop, opened a closed door, sent in abi dhalzim's horrid wilting, fireball and what have you, closed the door and waited for time revert. When Time Stop does wear off, I open the door again to find only piles of shiny loot inside

Of course the same effect can be achieved my sending Korgan into any room with ring of regen/Kangaxx, plate and a battleaxe then just waiting.

I found that Mage's and Thieves were the hardest reliable classes to source from the NPCs so would always recommend them. There's enough of the others to warrant picking something else.