Help with logic

[Taerdin]

I've been having some arguments with people about what is considered logical, so I was hoping all you bright Escapist peoples could help me out!

So basically what I want you to do is post your answers to these two questions below, but don't explain your answer to the first question. The first question is mainly to test your logic (its a basic question). Also if possible don't read the answers of others until you have answered yourself. Onward!

Question 1: If some men are tall, and some men are doctors, does it follow that some doctors are tall?

Question 2: This is going to be a lot longer. A band announces on their website "We've just hit 13 million plays on last.fm! We're going to hold a contest in honor of this.", then a while later another announcement comes which states, "Please send us your username, as well as your play count. The contest ends on d-day, try to get as many plays as possible before then." The prize is the ultimate fan package, signed merchandise up the wazoo. If you don't know what lastfm is, it basically just keeps track of what you have listened to through a media player on your computer.

What would a true fan do? Get as many plays as possible, or as many as are convenient to them? What is more important during this contest period would you say, enjoying the songs or getting play counts? Is leaving your player going overnight against the rules (even if you're within hearing range of your player)?

Note that all knowledge of what the contest entails is listed above, no 'rules and guidelines' page existed, so it's all what you can derive from those two announcements. If you require more information or have questions let me know. Thanks a lot

 

[NeutralMunchHotel]

Question 1: If some men are tall, and some men are doctors, does it follow that some doctors are tall?

Yes, it doesn't say 'others are doctors', so yes, some doctors can be tall.

Question 2: This is going to be a lot longer. A band announces on their website "We've just hit 13 million plays on last.fm! We're going to hold a contest in honor of this.", then a while later another announcement comes which states, "Please send us your username, as well as your play count. The contest ends on d-day, try to get as many plays as possible before then." The prize is the ultimate fan package, signed merchandise up the wazoo. If you don't know what lastfm is, it basically just keeps track of what you have listened to through a media player on your computer.

What would a true fan do? Get as many plays as possible, or as many as are convenient to them? What is more important during this contest period would you say, enjoying the songs or getting play counts? Is leaving your player going overnight against the rules (even if you're within hearing range of your player)?

Note that all knowledge of what the contest entails is listed above, no 'rules and guidelines' page existed, so it's all what you can derive from those two announcements. If you require more information or have questions let me know. Thanks a lot

This is a stupid question, and the logic needed to reach an answer is minimal. I'd say that they'd just leave it playing over and over again, then attempt to win the prize, unless someone else shocklingly has the same idea and does the same, (and I'd imagine a lot will do it) and in the end it becomes a bit of a lottery.

 

[Sampler]

I'd say that they'd just leave it playing over and over again, then attempt to win the prize, unless someone else shocklingly has the same idea and does the same, (and I'd imagine a lot will do it) and in the end it becomes a bit of a lottery.

That's where you edit the song to a few seconds and loop the playlist - you will count as playing the sound once every five seconds and thereby be the highest, unlike those looping the entire track.

Muhahahahaaaa

What, you edited yours to fours seconds? D'oh!

 

[SmartIdiot]

Question 1: Sort of. Some men are tall, some men are doctors, some doctors are tall, some doctors are women, some doctors are also short. Where's this going?

Question 2: As many as is convenient to them, although it depends on how neurotically obsessed they are with the band. Some people are creepy like that. At the end of the day though it is just a shameless cash in isn't it?

 

[Proteus214]

Question One: The answer is actually ambiguous since it is never made clear whether or not the two properties are mutually exclusive within the universe of discourse. Through chance you can say that your conclusion is valid but not sound, but in reality we don't have enough information to come to a conclusion that is truly sound and valid.

Question two: By that logic, you would need to get as many plays as possible.

 

[Real_horrorshow]

" Taerdin:
Question 1: If some men are tall, and some men are doctors, does it follow that some doctors are tall?

Yes, it doesn't say 'others are doctors', so yes, some doctors can be tall. "



No it's not. According to the laws of logic, you cannot say any logical conclusion on the bases of two particular premises.

I've had a course on logic during my years in university and this form of logic belongs to what we call syllogism.

here's a link : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syllogism

So if you say: If some men are tall, and some men are doctors, you can't say that some doctors are tall, because you actually don't have enough information to say that ( and if you don't get that the first time, it's perfectly natural, because you are used to think like that in the real world. But logic has nothing to do with physical reality.)

If you wish to have the conclusion "Some doctors are tall", the two first premise would have to be: "All men are tall" (wich on a physical reality doesn't makes sense to us, but on the logical sense does) and "Some doctors are men" only then, according to logic, you would be able to say that.

* sorry about my english, it's not my first language


As for the second question, it's not consider logic in the same sense and doesn't respond to the same laws really

 

[Cpt. Red]

Q1: No, but it doesn't say that no doctors are tall...

Q2: This isn't mutually exclusive... You can use multiple music players, one that is muted and play their music all the time and one that you play whatever you want to...

 

[Vordark]

I see someone just learned about syllogisms in school.

There are many different types/variants of what we call "logic" beyond formal logic. There are also a wide variety of applications of such principles. The answer to your second question lies in game theory.

 

[Taerdin]

Technically the answer to the first one is no, its does not follow from those first two statements that some doctors are tall. It could be that some doctors ARE tall, but with just those two statements you don't KNOW that (therefore it doesn't 'follow').

As for the second, I know 'minimal' logic is needed, but when I read those two announcements I thought, 'oh they were happy about getting 13 million plays on that site, and now they say "get as many as possible?" I guess they just want all the plays they can get their hands on'. I thought that was a logical conclusion, but quite a few others started attacking me for doing exactly what I thought was the logical response to their announcements. They keep calling me a cheater or not a true fan, when no rules or guidelines were given, just those two announcements. I keep telling them I just did what I thought was logical and they just keep laughing at me... I just wanted to know if someone could find a way in which my response was illogical (read:wrong) or not mostly, I get paranoid that I'm wrong when lots of people get upset with my decisions.

Anyways thanks for your time you guys, I love you all