Here we go again: Anita Sarkeesian and the gaming community

[Frankster]

NO TROLLING. If I see trolling I will bloody well report you, regardless of the ideology you purport to represent. This is to be a clean discussion.

I find it interesting you put that in your OP yet...

1) You've posted this in the general subforum instead of R & P where threads like this belong (surprised no one else called you out on this, or maybe they have, didn't read all 9 pages). Since your user date is recent I'll chalk it up to ignorance.

2) All you've done is give more publicity to Anita Sarkeesian, signal boosting her. Especially by posting this thread in the general sub forum. You could at least pm a mod to put it where it belongs, i.e: with the rest in R & P.

It's thanks to threads like this that Anita Sarkeesian is able to kick up enough of a fuss and gets to make appearances on the Colbert Report.

Honestly I use to believe in the adage "ignore it and dont feed the troll" but I've tried to keep true to this line of thinking (this is literally the first Anita Sarkeesian thread I've posted in...since the very first feminist frequency thread came out on the escapist an eternity ago) for as long as I can but clearly it doesn't work, people just can't help giving her more publicity and if you are honestly someone who doesn't like AS, then you've kinda fucked up by making this thread.

Catchpra: Know the ropes Yeah catchpra I know how these things go, but I'm only one man. If everyone who disagreed with or disliked her acted like I did and simply ignored AS, she wouldn't be this prominent, but people don't know the ropes and just keep talking about her no matter what :/

 

[Alex1508]

They don't want to take away our games they want to change games to fit their ideology. Which is worse if you ask me.

Don't you worry. If anything the GG movement and this new wave of "political incorrectness" and their hunt for perceived SJWs, diversity or games that promote inclusion and all the pearl clutching and hypocrisy they demostrated throughout, has proven, is that gamers don't care what you make as long as you stay on track with their poltical ideology. Hey as long as their "FUN AND ENJOYABLE GAMES" throw other minorities and gender under the bus to prop up the "FUN" it's all fine, right?

Are you really that fucking afraid of a group of people that aren't you making loud enough complaints on the internet to the point where companies say to themselves "hmmm these people are willing to dish out money to us if we include certain elements into it".

I mean, where was this outrage when videogames were went from having characters and plots of all shapes, sizes, and forms to [insert shooter with military dude here]. Oh wait, that was fine because it was for the money. But holy fuck- Nintendo added in ONE black character? Clearly they are being forced by SJW's.

And this right here is the crux of the entire problem with the very culture of the gamer community. We like to laud that we are inclusive, that we are accepting of everyone, but holy god damn if your the "wrong sort", then your not part of the community.

We can replace Anita with the other following groups of people: SJW's, feminists, bro gamers, casuals, wii casuals, mobile gamers, etc. etc. etc.

Every other fucking month there is a group of people we perceive as "threatening gaming" when the most they did is criticize another GTA game and declare them unfit of joining the fucking "club".

ha ha ha yeah right as if anyone would ever buy the line about "gaming being inclusive" in this day and age. It takes about two weeks of gaming even for a complete gaming neophite to get the answer for that one.

 

[Haerthan]

NO TROLLING. If I see trolling I will bloody well report you, regardless of the ideology you purport to represent. This is to be a clean discussion.

I find it interesting you put that in your OP yet...

1) You've posted this in the general subforum instead of R & P where threads like this belong (surprised no one else called you out on this, or maybe they have, didn't read all 9 pages). Since your user date is recent I'll chalk it up to ignorance.

2) All you've done is give more publicity to Anita Sarkeesian, signal boosting her. Especially by posting this thread in the general sub forum. You could at least pm a mod to put it where it belongs, i.e: with the rest in R & P.

It's thanks to threads like this that Anita Sarkeesian is able to kick up enough of a fuss and gets to make appearances on the Colbert Report.

Honestly I use to believe in the adage "ignore it and dont feed the troll" but I've tried to keep true to this line of thinking (this is literally the first Anita Sarkeesian thread I've posted in...since the very first feminist frequency thread came out on the escapist an eternity ago) for as long as I can but clearly it doesn't work, people just can't help giving her more publicity and if you are honestly someone who doesn't like AS, then you've kinda fucked up by making this thread.

Catchpra: Know the ropes Yeah catchpra I know how these things go, but I'm only one man. If everyone who disagreed with or disliked her acted like I did and simply ignored AS, she wouldn't be this prominent, but people don't know the ropes and just keep talking about her no matter what :/

Well I did see they moved my thread to the RP section. I didnt know that, I lurked for a few years, but I never posted/joined until March 2014. So I guess I am still learning the ropes.
Also I agree in general with Anita Sarkeesian. Are there parts when she says stuff I dont agree with? yes, of course there is. I do think for myself. No, the thread served its purpose in my eyes. It started a debate about how far some people go to besmirch other people for DARING to criticize games.

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

Yeah, anyone can so long as they're ok with being given pop quizzes to make sure that they're "real" gamers and having paranoid nut jobs accusing them of being harmful to the community or taking their games away from them.

Yes everyone "can" play games, but if you think it's easy or that the community isn't a cesspool of hostility you're kidding yourself.

And what exactly have you done?

 

[Alex1508]

They don't want to take away our games they want to change games to fit their ideology. Which is worse if you ask me.

Don't you worry. If anything the GG movement and this new wave of "political incorrectness" and their hunt for perceived SJWs, diversity or games that promote inclusion and all the pearl clutching and hypocrisy they demostrated throughout, has proven, is that gamers don't care what you make as long as you stay on track with their poltical ideology. Hey as long as their "FUN AND ENJOYABLE GAMES" throw other minorities and gender under the bus to prop up the "FUN" it's all fine, right?

Are you really that fucking afraid of a group of people that aren't you making loud enough complaints on the internet to the point where companies say to themselves "hmmm these people are willing to dish out money to us if we include certain elements into it".

I mean, where was this outrage when videogames were went from having characters and plots of all shapes, sizes, and forms to [insert shooter with military dude here]. Oh wait, that was fine because it was for the money. But holy fuck- Nintendo added in ONE black character? Clearly they are being forced by SJW's.

And this right here is the crux of the entire problem with the very culture of the gamer community. We like to laud that we are inclusive, that we are accepting of everyone, but holy god damn if your the "wrong sort", then your not part of the community.

We can replace Anita with the other following groups of people: SJW's, feminists, bro gamers, casuals, wii casuals, mobile gamers, etc. etc. etc.

Every other fucking month there is a group of people we perceive as "threatening gaming" when the most they did is criticize another GTA game and declare them unfit of joining the fucking "club".

ha ha ha yeah right as if anyone would ever buy the line about "gaming being inclusive" in this day and age. It takes about two weeks of gaming even for a complete gaming neophite to get the answer for that one.

I don't know where you've been but gaming has been inclusive for several years,anyone can play games now.But see your problem is that instead of doing something to support games that cater to you,you're more content on complaining that others do it for you.

Armchair activism has been a blight these past few years.Atleast people like me actually do something about inequity.

oh yes, anyone can play games now as long as they are made along the lines of what gamers find acceptable usually against diversity. It seems, these days, the mere inclusion of any other minorities is seen as SJW pandering.

Oh Bioware added 2 men that are attracted to men and their sexuality actually comes up in their dialogue, story and attitudes and is not just an offhand remark during a dialogue and never brought up again (looking at you Arcade Ganon). And they also added a very positive portrayal of a transman, especially in a fantasy medieval setting? (Damn right they did, Krem is awesome and they also added a well written transwoman in the comics, Maeveris Tilani) And the male straight romances are not some hot lookin bimbos and actually have character to them? Also it seems Cassandras short hair is a crime against the straight white male demographic. THE HORROR, THEY PANDER TO THE SJWS, THE SJWS ARE FORCING THEM TO DO THIS, BIOWARE USED TO BE SO MUCH MORE AWESOME WHEN THEY DIDN'T DO THIS SJW CRAP AKA KEPT ALL THESE NIGGERS, FAGS AND MANLY FEMINISTS OUT OF MY GAME.

The amount of threads that pop up with these "problems" on several forums i follow is staggering really. The fact that outside a few certain developers, most minority characters are used for a quick trope check or abused to prop a story setup, beaten down into the dirt and made fun of to prop the "FUN" factor. Let alone the actual real life homophobia, sexism, racism and abuse thrown around against minority players. Inclusive? Spare me. Maybe only in some small self contained circles, but at large? Nope. I gamed for 18 years now and been through a lot, things got better but not by much and certainly not enough.

Also, yes i support games i like and try to tackle homophobia, racism or sexism when i encounter it in the gaming community but last time i checked the discussion wasn't about me and my power to change the gaming industry or how about you are a wonderful person irl.

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

Yeah, anyone can so long as they're ok with being given pop quizzes to make sure that they're "real" gamers and having paranoid nut jobs accusing them of being harmful to the community or taking their games away from them.

Yes everyone "can" play games, but if you think it's easy or that the community isn't a cesspool of hostility you're kidding yourself.

And what exactly have you done?

Those people are a problem but that does'nt mean the "gaming community" isn't inclusive.

Donated to women's shelters,volunteered at homeless shelters,centers for at risk kids and DV crisis centers.

Considering that when it gets brought up people are less concerned about "People are being abused? That's horrible!" and more "People are being abused? WELL I'M NOT DOING IT!" So many fucking people are more concerned about saving face and denying that there are ANY problems in the gaming community that frankly I've become fucking disgusted with the community. To quote a famous man "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." So many gamers like to SAY that their inclusive but they don't actually DO anything about it.

Good for you. I'm honest, that's a good thing you did. And pray tell, how is going on the internet and trying to shut people up when they try and talk about this stuff helping at all? Do you go to that woman's shelter and say "Hey don't worry, someone on the internet tried to talk about sexist issues and I called them armchair activists."

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

Yeah, anyone can so long as they're ok with being given pop quizzes to make sure that they're "real" gamers and having paranoid nut jobs accusing them of being harmful to the community or taking their games away from them.

Yes everyone "can" play games, but if you think it's easy or that the community isn't a cesspool of hostility you're kidding yourself.

And what exactly have you done?

Those people are a problem but that does'nt mean the "gaming community" isn't inclusive.

Donated to women's shelters,volunteered at homeless shelters,centers for at risk kids and DV crisis centers.

Considering that when it gets brought up people are less concerned about "People are being abused? That's horrible!" and more "People are being abused? WELL I'M NOT DOING IT!" So many fucking people are more concerned about saving face and denying that there are ANY problems in the gaming community that frankly I've become fucking disgusted with the community. To quote a famous man "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." So many gamers like to SAY that their inclusive but they don't actually DO anything about it.

Good for you. I'm honest, that's a good thing you did. And pray tell, how is going on the internet and trying to shut people up when they try and talk about this stuff helping at all? Do you go to that woman's shelter and say "Hey don't worry, someone on the internet tried to talk about sexist issues and I called them armchair activists."

Except those people get called out all the time,the assholes just don't care and keep doing it which is there's so much hate.

No I tell them that sitting around and doing nothing won't solve their problems.Many of the women I've spoken with took that advice to heart.Instead of complaining that something is sexist maybe these folks should do something about it.

That defeatist attitude is exactly what infuriates me so much. "It's always gonna be a problem, so why bother?" You could at least try.

You're assuming that we're doing nothing. I'm writing a story that tackles the harsh reality of being raped and being pressured to keep quiet about it with an audience of over a thousand people, do I have a seal of approval to complain about sexism on the internet now?

Also I hope you appreciate the irony of complaining on the internet about people complaining on the internet

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

Yeah, anyone can so long as they're ok with being given pop quizzes to make sure that they're "real" gamers and having paranoid nut jobs accusing them of being harmful to the community or taking their games away from them.

Yes everyone "can" play games, but if you think it's easy or that the community isn't a cesspool of hostility you're kidding yourself.

And what exactly have you done?

Those people are a problem but that does'nt mean the "gaming community" isn't inclusive.

Donated to women's shelters,volunteered at homeless shelters,centers for at risk kids and DV crisis centers.

Considering that when it gets brought up people are less concerned about "People are being abused? That's horrible!" and more "People are being abused? WELL I'M NOT DOING IT!" So many fucking people are more concerned about saving face and denying that there are ANY problems in the gaming community that frankly I've become fucking disgusted with the community. To quote a famous man "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." So many gamers like to SAY that their inclusive but they don't actually DO anything about it.

Good for you. I'm honest, that's a good thing you did. And pray tell, how is going on the internet and trying to shut people up when they try and talk about this stuff helping at all? Do you go to that woman's shelter and say "Hey don't worry, someone on the internet tried to talk about sexist issues and I called them armchair activists."

Except those people get called out all the time,the assholes just don't care and keep doing it which is there's so much hate.

No I tell them that sitting around and doing nothing won't solve their problems.Many of the women I've spoken with took that advice to heart.Instead of complaining that something is sexist maybe these folks should do something about it.

That defeatist attitude is exactly what infuriates me so much. "It's always gonna be a problem, so why bother?" You could at least try.

You're assuming that we're doing nothing. I'm writing a story that tackles the harsh reality of being raped and being pressured to keep quiet about it with an audience of over a thousand people, do I have a seal of approval to complain about sexism on the internet now?

Also I hope you appreciate the irony of complaining on the internet about people complaining on the internet

It's not a defeatist attitude to think practically.People are assholes and short of going Big Brother on the net nothing will stop them from being one.Shame them?Most would shrug it off and ramp up the abuse and hate even more.Ban them?They'll make a new account or move to a different site altogether.We've tried everything short of illegal like doxxing and the hatred and harassment have'nt gone down.

Actually that's doing something about a issue that's problematic in society.Let me know when the book is finished because I'd love to support it.

We can at the very least make it clear that we don't accept them, make it clear that they're a blight, instead of every time someone complains about having a hard time just throwing our hands up and saying "Well I'm not like that."

Less a book and more of a subplot in a fanfiction I'm working on. I'm still building up to it because I want to do it right. I'm only hinting that the rapist character is, well, a rapist because A. so often these people keep it under wraps and B. he has a friend in power covering his ass, also like in real life. I want the readers and the characters both to be surprised.

 

[Haerthan]

Before we get to everyone brandishing their torches and pitchforks, I'd just like to point out that the last instance of a high-profile developer listening to Sarkeesian's criticism/views was Saints Row IV [https://www.google.com/search?q=saints+row+iv+anita+sarkeesian&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&channel=np&source=hp], and anybody who has played that game knows how it turned out.

Also, more reputable sources than a Youtube video based on blog post rumors would be nice. The only information even tangentially related to anything like this has solely been fear-mongering, and it goes back two years now to a blog post originally made on Destructoid (which had no sourced facts or anything to begin with).

I have not played Saints Row IV. How did it turn out? I kept hearing it was good. So please enlighten me. I am serious. I am not screwing around. And I DO NOT remember a backlash against it.

That's exactly my point, actually. It was good (if maybe not what fans of Saints Row 2 were looking for), and there wasn't any sort of overblown backlash, from feminists or SJWs or anyone else. At least, not one that was large enough for me to have heard of it.

Why am I not surprised? Remind me to unsub from TotalBiscuit and ReviewTechUSA later today. Got work right now so I'll do it later. I used to respect them, but TB turned into a GGer and Rich, well Rich is a paranoid idiot. TB also seems to show a bit more of an idiotic side with the Target thing, saying that the Target decision is anti-consumer. So yea, I am going to just keep looking for music on Utube from now on. Oh and Anita's videos. Prety insightful (in my opinion and it isnt up for debate).

It is anti-consumer, it was utterly pathetic, based on complete lies, hell even "-ism" posture central the Escapist news team laughed about it - sounds like you're just removing anyone with an alternative view from your media, which is fine and your choice of course.

Edit - OT - The game makers are just raising the profile of the game, she'll add nothing of value whatsoever, she isn't a game designer, clearly doesn't play any games for fun, only to make money by making deliberately provocative generalisations for the usual crowd to fawn over and that's about it. I quite liked the first game, will probably give the second one a miss, I don't want to play something that's been approved as "acceptable" by anyone whatever creed they bang on about.

You do know that just about everyone found the decision stupid, right? Jim Sterling, me, the Escapist, TB etc etc. The same can apply to being pro-consumer since there were 45k signatures on that petition. DO i agree with their decision. FUCK NO. Stupid decision. Is it anti-consumer? Yes and no. Anti if ur a gamer, and pro if you see who signed that petition and who shops at Target. Remember in Australia Target only has 2% of the gaming community shopping there, when compared with Christ knows how many families shop there. So who is Target going to listen? To the people giving them money, not the ones not giving them money. Thats simple capitalism.

The petition does misrepresent the game, no doubt about it. But I still believe that Target did what they believed to do in order to make MONEY. And hell most Australians dont even care about it, so I dont know why should the rest of the world. And with this I stop cause there is only so much time I can devote to this non-issue.

Edit: I am removing "alternative" media from myself cause 1: Rich is an uninformed person, for this one he did no research. Look again at the OP edits I made. 2: TB just flip flops on many issues, at least try to be consistent.

 

[Frankster]

Also I agree in general with Anita Sarkeesian. Are there parts when she says stuff I dont agree with? yes, of course there is. I do think for myself. No, the thread served its purpose in my eyes. It started a debate about how far some people go to besmirch other people for DARING to criticize games.

Fair enough, my bad then. Thought you were one of those who were Anti Sarkeesian people who insisted on making threads about her in an attempt to show how despicable she is. Jumped the gun too early maybe.

 

[Haerthan]

Also I agree in general with Anita Sarkeesian. Are there parts when she says stuff I dont agree with? yes, of course there is. I do think for myself. No, the thread served its purpose in my eyes. It started a debate about how far some people go to besmirch other people for DARING to criticize games.

Fair enough, my bad then. Thought you were one of those who were Anti Sarkeesian people who insisted on making threads about her in an attempt to show how despicable she is. Jumped the gun too early maybe.

No worries it is the internet. I do make myself sometimes misunderstood. And sometimes I get too combative for my own good.

 

[Signa]

Anti if ur a gamer, and pro if you see who signed that petition and who shops at Target. Remember in Australia Target only has 2% of the gaming community shopping there, when compared with Christ knows how many families shop there. So who is Target going to listen? To the people giving them money, not the ones not giving them money. Thats simple capitalism.

One flaw in your logic: The people who signed that petition were not consumers. It might have been pro-customer of Target to listen to their customers, but it wasn't pro-consumer. They weren't going to consume that game, ever.

 

[Haerthan]

Anti if ur a gamer, and pro if you see who signed that petition and who shops at Target. Remember in Australia Target only has 2% of the gaming community shopping there, when compared with Christ knows how many families shop there. So who is Target going to listen? To the people giving them money, not the ones not giving them money. Thats simple capitalism.

One flaw in your logic: The people who signed that petition were not consumers. It might have been pro-customer of Target to listen to their customers, but it wasn't pro-consumer. They weren't going to consume that game, ever.

Still works, because if Target didn't listen to them, they would have lost a whole lot more money than just the 2% of the gaming community in Australia. So from that point of view, its still pro-consumer. They also did the stupid thing of putting GTAV (an 18+ title) near the freaking toys for kids in their flyers. So of course this would happen, not even counting the petition.

 

[blegherpaptain]

We can at the very least make it clear that we don't accept them, make it clear that they're a blight, instead of every time someone complains about having a hard time just throwing our hands up and saying "Well I'm not like that."

Less a book and more of a subplot in a fanfiction I'm working on. I'm still building up to it because I want to do it right. I'm only hinting that the rapist character is, well, a rapist because A. so often these people keep it under wraps and B. he has a friend in power covering his ass, also like in real life. I want the readers and the characters both to be surprised.

The irony of your position being that people who fall in your side of the camp actively want to silence anyone who disagrees with them.

The UVA false rape accusation case being a prime example. Then again, people like you have no sense of self-reflection so I'm going to assume all you will do is cry "misogyny!" in so many words and attempt to censor yet one more person who calls you out on your bullshit.

There's a reason no one worth anything outside of the insular gaming community believes this third wave feminism bullshit: It's more sexist than the straw-men it props up to make its illogical point.

 

[Signa]

Anti if ur a gamer, and pro if you see who signed that petition and who shops at Target. Remember in Australia Target only has 2% of the gaming community shopping there, when compared with Christ knows how many families shop there. So who is Target going to listen? To the people giving them money, not the ones not giving them money. Thats simple capitalism.

One flaw in your logic: The people who signed that petition were not consumers. It might have been pro-customer of Target to listen to their customers, but it wasn't pro-consumer. They weren't going to consume that game, ever.

Still works, because if Target didn't listen to them, they would have lost a whole lot more money than just the 2% of the gaming community in Australia. So from that point of view, its still pro-consumer. They also did the stupid thing of putting GTAV (an 18+ title) near the freaking toys for kids in their flyers. So of course this would happen, not even counting the petition.

I dunno man, saying not having lost profits is pro-consumer sounds sketchy to me. I'm a bit busy to figure out why that doesn't sit well with me though. I've been arguing about this all week, and I'm getting tired of it, so if I do come up with the reason, I'll see if I care enough to let you know

I didn't hear about the flier thing until Total Biscuit did his video. That WAS stupid.

 

[Haerthan]

Anti if ur a gamer, and pro if you see who signed that petition and who shops at Target. Remember in Australia Target only has 2% of the gaming community shopping there, when compared with Christ knows how many families shop there. So who is Target going to listen? To the people giving them money, not the ones not giving them money. Thats simple capitalism.

One flaw in your logic: The people who signed that petition were not consumers. It might have been pro-customer of Target to listen to their customers, but it wasn't pro-consumer. They weren't going to consume that game, ever.

Still works, because if Target didn't listen to them, they would have lost a whole lot more money than just the 2% of the gaming community in Australia. So from that point of view, its still pro-consumer. They also did the stupid thing of putting GTAV (an 18+ title) near the freaking toys for kids in their flyers. So of course this would happen, not even counting the petition.

I dunno man, saying not having lost profits is pro-consumer sounds sketchy to me. I'm a bit busy to figure out why that doesn't sit well with me though. I've been arguing about this all week, and I'm getting tired of it, so if I do come up with the reason, I'll see if I care enough to let you know

I didn't hear about the flier thing until Total Biscuit did his video. That WAS stupid.

Ok let me rephrase that. Target holds only 2% of the gaming demographic in Australia, which is outclassed by the family demographic by a huge magnitude, no idea how much though. When the petition popped up, and the flier popped up as well, its understandable that some jimmies were rustled. So Target does their little market research to see how much they could lose if they screw up, to see what their biggest customers want. The families said No GTAV. So Target, who sees it as an inexpensive PR stunt, removes a game that is a year old and made most of the money from it. 2% of the gaming demographic got thrown under the bus for :
1) a better PR for Target
2) extra loyalty and money from the family demographic towards Target.

Is it bullshit? Yes, it is. Is it anti-consumer? Yes and No, but mainly no. Is it censorship? No.

 

[Atmos Duality]

You do know that just about everyone found the decision stupid, right? Jim Sterling, me, the Escapist, TB etc etc. The same can apply to being pro-consumer since there were 45k signatures on that petition. DO i agree with their decision. FUCK NO. Stupid decision. Is it anti-consumer? Yes and no. Anti if ur a gamer, and pro if you see who signed that petition and who shops at Target.

This sounds reasonable, until you realize that those making the petition don't actually gain anything as consumers.
Yes, they have acquired a sense of smug self-righteous satisfaction by pissing others off.
Though last I checked, that wasn't a consumable commodity, so you'll forgive me if I refuse to call that "pro-consumer".

What have they accomplished for the market: net result is one less game at Target Australia. Nothing more.
Just by the math, that's strictly anti-consumer.

Truth is, the petitioners have always had the option to not engage GTA5 in any way, or any other product that offends them, just like anyone else.

Instead, they made a petition demanding a corporation to play social-babysitter for them because they aren't mature enough to accept the responsibilities that come with the privilege of free commerce, and their whiny ineptitude is infringing on the options of others who have otherwise have NOTHING to do with those idiots.

 

[Erttheking]

We can at the very least make it clear that we don't accept them, make it clear that they're a blight, instead of every time someone complains about having a hard time just throwing our hands up and saying "Well I'm not like that."

Less a book and more of a subplot in a fanfiction I'm working on. I'm still building up to it because I want to do it right. I'm only hinting that the rapist character is, well, a rapist because A. so often these people keep it under wraps and B. he has a friend in power covering his ass, also like in real life. I want the readers and the characters both to be surprised.

The irony of your position being that people who fall in your side of the camp actively want to silence anyone who disagrees with them.

The UVA false rape accusation case being a prime example. Then again, people like you have no sense of self-reflection so I'm going to assume all you will do is cry "misogyny!" in so many words and attempt to censor yet one more person who calls you out on your bullshit.

There's a reason no one worth anything outside of the insular gaming community believes this third wave feminism bullshit: It's more sexist than the straw-men it props up to make its illogical point.

Really? My side. I wasn't aware that I was on any particular side. I was under the impression that I was erttheking arguing a point on the internet. See, I don't identify with "sides" because I consider it to be a stupid idea. It's why I don't start off every post by rambling on about "YOU PEOPLE". I debate them on the points they make instead of trying to shut them up with points made by people they might not even know about. Like you are right now.

I have no no self reflection? Tell me, what am I? No please, I want to hear the in depth analysis that you've made of my character from the posts I make on the internet when I have nothing better to do.

The fact that you think this conversations don't happen outside the gaming community is proof to me that you haven't done any research into this matter, because the conversation very much happens outside the gaming community. Needless to say that makes me find your claims about "No one taking this serious" questionable to say the least.

 

[Lovely Mixture]

oh i know Jim is still neutral and its just Pro that label him anti.

Pros label him a hypocrite. He constantly advocates for consumer rights but when his journo friends get called out he gets flaky.

I would like you to go see his Jimquisition stuff and tell me where he gets flaky? Seriously go check it out. Cause most likely you haven't seen it.

I have seen it. I also see his stuff on Facebook and Twitter. There's no need to be hostile to me because we disagree on things.

 

[Haerthan]

oh i know Jim is still neutral and its just Pro that label him anti.

Pros label him a hypocrite. He constantly advocates for consumer rights but when his journo friends get called out he gets flaky.

I would like you to go see his Jimquisition stuff and tell me where he gets flaky? Seriously go check it out. Cause most likely you haven't seen it.

I have seen it. I also see his stuff on Facebook and Twitter. There's no need to be hostile to me because we disagree on things.

Then you can't claim he is flaky just because he disagrees with you. And you don't know actual hostility. THe doxxing and the harassment is actual hostility. Me disagreeing with you isnt hostility. It is debating. Do I get carried away and sometimes forget to not insult people? Yes. For that I apologize.