Here we go again: Anita Sarkeesian and the gaming community

[Signa]

Anti if ur a gamer, and pro if you see who signed that petition and who shops at Target. Remember in Australia Target only has 2% of the gaming community shopping there, when compared with Christ knows how many families shop there. So who is Target going to listen? To the people giving them money, not the ones not giving them money. Thats simple capitalism.

One flaw in your logic: The people who signed that petition were not consumers. It might have been pro-customer of Target to listen to their customers, but it wasn't pro-consumer. They weren't going to consume that game, ever.

Still works, because if Target didn't listen to them, they would have lost a whole lot more money than just the 2% of the gaming community in Australia. So from that point of view, its still pro-consumer. They also did the stupid thing of putting GTAV (an 18+ title) near the freaking toys for kids in their flyers. So of course this would happen, not even counting the petition.

I dunno man, saying not having lost profits is pro-consumer sounds sketchy to me. I'm a bit busy to figure out why that doesn't sit well with me though. I've been arguing about this all week, and I'm getting tired of it, so if I do come up with the reason, I'll see if I care enough to let you know

I didn't hear about the flier thing until Total Biscuit did his video. That WAS stupid.

 

[Haerthan]

Anti if ur a gamer, and pro if you see who signed that petition and who shops at Target. Remember in Australia Target only has 2% of the gaming community shopping there, when compared with Christ knows how many families shop there. So who is Target going to listen? To the people giving them money, not the ones not giving them money. Thats simple capitalism.

One flaw in your logic: The people who signed that petition were not consumers. It might have been pro-customer of Target to listen to their customers, but it wasn't pro-consumer. They weren't going to consume that game, ever.

Still works, because if Target didn't listen to them, they would have lost a whole lot more money than just the 2% of the gaming community in Australia. So from that point of view, its still pro-consumer. They also did the stupid thing of putting GTAV (an 18+ title) near the freaking toys for kids in their flyers. So of course this would happen, not even counting the petition.

I dunno man, saying not having lost profits is pro-consumer sounds sketchy to me. I'm a bit busy to figure out why that doesn't sit well with me though. I've been arguing about this all week, and I'm getting tired of it, so if I do come up with the reason, I'll see if I care enough to let you know

I didn't hear about the flier thing until Total Biscuit did his video. That WAS stupid.

Ok let me rephrase that. Target holds only 2% of the gaming demographic in Australia, which is outclassed by the family demographic by a huge magnitude, no idea how much though. When the petition popped up, and the flier popped up as well, its understandable that some jimmies were rustled. So Target does their little market research to see how much they could lose if they screw up, to see what their biggest customers want. The families said No GTAV. So Target, who sees it as an inexpensive PR stunt, removes a game that is a year old and made most of the money from it. 2% of the gaming demographic got thrown under the bus for :
1) a better PR for Target
2) extra loyalty and money from the family demographic towards Target.

Is it bullshit? Yes, it is. Is it anti-consumer? Yes and No, but mainly no. Is it censorship? No.

 

[Atmos Duality]

You do know that just about everyone found the decision stupid, right? Jim Sterling, me, the Escapist, TB etc etc. The same can apply to being pro-consumer since there were 45k signatures on that petition. DO i agree with their decision. FUCK NO. Stupid decision. Is it anti-consumer? Yes and no. Anti if ur a gamer, and pro if you see who signed that petition and who shops at Target.

This sounds reasonable, until you realize that those making the petition don't actually gain anything as consumers.
Yes, they have acquired a sense of smug self-righteous satisfaction by pissing others off.
Though last I checked, that wasn't a consumable commodity, so you'll forgive me if I refuse to call that "pro-consumer".

What have they accomplished for the market: net result is one less game at Target Australia. Nothing more.
Just by the math, that's strictly anti-consumer.

Truth is, the petitioners have always had the option to not engage GTA5 in any way, or any other product that offends them, just like anyone else.

Instead, they made a petition demanding a corporation to play social-babysitter for them because they aren't mature enough to accept the responsibilities that come with the privilege of free commerce, and their whiny ineptitude is infringing on the options of others who have otherwise have NOTHING to do with those idiots.

 

[Erttheking]

We can at the very least make it clear that we don't accept them, make it clear that they're a blight, instead of every time someone complains about having a hard time just throwing our hands up and saying "Well I'm not like that."

Less a book and more of a subplot in a fanfiction I'm working on. I'm still building up to it because I want to do it right. I'm only hinting that the rapist character is, well, a rapist because A. so often these people keep it under wraps and B. he has a friend in power covering his ass, also like in real life. I want the readers and the characters both to be surprised.

The irony of your position being that people who fall in your side of the camp actively want to silence anyone who disagrees with them.

The UVA false rape accusation case being a prime example. Then again, people like you have no sense of self-reflection so I'm going to assume all you will do is cry "misogyny!" in so many words and attempt to censor yet one more person who calls you out on your bullshit.

There's a reason no one worth anything outside of the insular gaming community believes this third wave feminism bullshit: It's more sexist than the straw-men it props up to make its illogical point.

Really? My side. I wasn't aware that I was on any particular side. I was under the impression that I was erttheking arguing a point on the internet. See, I don't identify with "sides" because I consider it to be a stupid idea. It's why I don't start off every post by rambling on about "YOU PEOPLE". I debate them on the points they make instead of trying to shut them up with points made by people they might not even know about. Like you are right now.

I have no no self reflection? Tell me, what am I? No please, I want to hear the in depth analysis that you've made of my character from the posts I make on the internet when I have nothing better to do.

The fact that you think this conversations don't happen outside the gaming community is proof to me that you haven't done any research into this matter, because the conversation very much happens outside the gaming community. Needless to say that makes me find your claims about "No one taking this serious" questionable to say the least.

 

[Lovely Mixture]

oh i know Jim is still neutral and its just Pro that label him anti.

Pros label him a hypocrite. He constantly advocates for consumer rights but when his journo friends get called out he gets flaky.

I would like you to go see his Jimquisition stuff and tell me where he gets flaky? Seriously go check it out. Cause most likely you haven't seen it.

I have seen it. I also see his stuff on Facebook and Twitter. There's no need to be hostile to me because we disagree on things.

 

[Haerthan]

oh i know Jim is still neutral and its just Pro that label him anti.

Pros label him a hypocrite. He constantly advocates for consumer rights but when his journo friends get called out he gets flaky.

I would like you to go see his Jimquisition stuff and tell me where he gets flaky? Seriously go check it out. Cause most likely you haven't seen it.

I have seen it. I also see his stuff on Facebook and Twitter. There's no need to be hostile to me because we disagree on things.

Then you can't claim he is flaky just because he disagrees with you. And you don't know actual hostility. THe doxxing and the harassment is actual hostility. Me disagreeing with you isnt hostility. It is debating. Do I get carried away and sometimes forget to not insult people? Yes. For that I apologize.

 

[Corran006]

Just what was wrong with the first one where they need Anita. Last time I chcked it had a very positive female lead in the game.

 

[Dizchu]

Well the Anita Sarkeesian/Mirror's Edge 2 thing has been proven to be false. She had a chat with EA I believe, and that lead to this paranoia.

It was just another example of people acting like she's the next Margaret Thatcher and she's on a crusade to invade our video games (oh no!)

I wonder if The Escapist will make a new subforum specifically for people to talk about Anita Sarkeesian. There's a few threads a week and they all basically say the same thing.

 

[PainInTheAssInternet]

Anyone who's gonna buy that game is officially a ******.

This isn't reddit, Youtube or 4chan. If you can't say anything longer than a few words or avoid insulting others, don't post.

 

[Rheinmetall]

I don't know, I'm disappointed and I feel like a complete idiot for anticipating Mirror's Edge II. I was also one of the few gamers that didn't throw stones against EA; I wasn't exactly supporting them, but I thought all this hatred against EA was unjustified. Well in a way EA managed to prove me right. People in EA are primarily idiots above anything else. They took the decision to involve that toxic person in the development of Mirror's Edge II, and with this way they scored an own-goal without any logical reason. Really who thought that the involvement of that person would do any good to Mirror's Edge? It's a lose-lose situation for everybody. Good job EA....

 

[Alex1508]

I don't know, I'm disappointed and I feel like a complete idiot for anticipating Mirror's Edge II. I was also one of the few gamers that didn't throw stones against EA; I wasn't exactly supporting them, but I thought all this hatred against EA was unjustified. Well in a way EA managed to prove me right. People in EA are primarily idiots above anything else. They took the decision to involve that toxic person in the development of Mirror's Edge II, and with this way they scored an own-goal without any logical reason. Really who thought that the involvement of that person would do any good to Mirror's Edge? It's a lose-lose situation for everybody. Good job EA....

Did you read the OPs edits? At all? She's not consulting for ME2, it was just a rumor taken as true in order to continue the witch hunt against her. So you can sleep well at night knowing that no super duper crazy cray-crayyyy radical feminazi is anywhere near the production of that game.....that we know of anyway bwaaaahahahaha...sorry about that.

 

[Rheinmetall]

I don't know, I'm disappointed and I feel like a complete idiot for anticipating Mirror's Edge II. I was also one of the few gamers that didn't throw stones against EA; I wasn't exactly supporting them, but I thought all this hatred against EA was unjustified. Well in a way EA managed to prove me right. People in EA are primarily idiots above anything else. They took the decision to involve that toxic person in the development of Mirror's Edge II, and with this way they scored an own-goal without any logical reason. Really who thought that the involvement of that person would do any good to Mirror's Edge? It's a lose-lose situation for everybody. Good job EA....

Did you read the OPs edits? At all? She's not consulting for ME2, it was just a rumor taken as true in order to continue the witch hunt against her. So you can sleep well at night knowing that no super duper crazy cray-crayyyy radical feminazi is anywhere near the production of that game.....that we know of anyway bwaaaahahahaha...sorry about that.

You could just have said what you wanted to say without the irony. I don't know if I'm asking for too much here...
Fyi, I will sleep well at night regardless.

 

[Something Amyss]

You could just have said what you wanted to say without the irony.

You could have made a post free from histrionics. Instead, this story (which is confirmed not true) of one bland woman working as a consultant for a single game pushed the drama levels to 11 and totes proved how idiotic EA is.

The sarcasm was likely less aimed at you being misinformed and more at that.

 

[Lovely Mixture]

Then you can't claim he is flaky just because he disagrees with you.

I meant you and me.

And you don't know actual hostility. THe doxxing and the harassment is actual hostility.

You don't know me.

Me disagreeing with you isnt hostility. It is debating.

Saying stuff like

I would like you to go see his Jimquisition stuff and tell me where he gets flaky? Seriously go check it out. Cause most likely you haven't seen it.

Is pretty condescending and is not any sort of thing you'd see in a debate.

Do I get carried away and sometimes forget to not insult people? Yes. For that I apologize.

Your apology seems empty after you pull the "YOU DONT KNOW REAL SUFFERING" card.

 

[Haerthan]

Then you can't claim he is flaky just because he disagrees with you.

I meant you and me.

And you don't know actual hostility. THe doxxing and the harassment is actual hostility.

You don't know me.

Me disagreeing with you isnt hostility. It is debating.

Saying stuff like

I would like you to go see his Jimquisition stuff and tell me where he gets flaky? Seriously go check it out. Cause most likely you haven't seen it.

Is pretty condescending and is not any sort of thing you'd see in a debate.

Do I get carried away and sometimes forget to not insult people? Yes. For that I apologize.

Your apology seems empty after you pull the "YOU DONT KNOW REAL SUFFERING" card.

Ok here we go:

1) NO I dont know you. But you brushing under the carpet actual hostility in favour of some "hostility" gives me a pretty accurate idea. That is not meant as an insult just so we know.
2) How is providing proof that supports my idea condescending?
3) No you don't know real suffering. I don't know real suffering. But I do know people who had actually suffered. So your cries of censorship diminish actual censorship. Your cries of being "oppressed" diminishes actual oppression. And you can take my apology or not. I really don't care. I know when I am in the wrong and I apologized for it.

Captcha: French toast. Yep it is official. Captcha is sentient. For the last week I had only stuff liket that pop up from it.

 

[Karadalis]

Don't get me wrong, I feel Anita could improve on certain things in her videos, plus discuss different topics rather than discussing one topic only for 22-25 minutes long per video. On the other hand, I really haven't seen her disrespect males in general let alone give anyone a solid reason to dislike her. If anything, just her identifying herself as a feminist gets the community so angry and bloodthirsty that it's not even funny.

Yes... she could actually improve by stopping to doctoring "evidence" like her hitman gamefootage to make a ludicrous point, she could stop telling blatant lies ala "Krystal was to star in her very own game" or "this game encourages you to enact violence upon females so you get a boner from it" or "games effect people in a negative way despite all the evidence that points the other way"


And you havent seen her openly disrespect men? Guess you dont take a closer look at her other stuff then.

How about her claiming that there is no such thing as sexism against men? In my book that is BLATANTLY disrespecting males.

And she has given no one a reason to dislike her? Shes telling blatant lies, she makes herselfe a victim and profits massively from it.. she gives gamers a bad name because a couple hundret trolls spammed her video and twitter and to top it all off shes not even comming up with the things she says herselfe! Instead getting told by a MAN (Mcintosh) who is not only the producer but also the writer for her series, making her a complete hack.


Thats right... the champion of womens rights, the strong independend feminist in gaming is being told what to say and how to say it by a male... *golfclap*

Hypocrasy at its finest.

Sarkesian has no integrity left.. but hey.. atleast she stopped stealing other peoples footage... thats something.

 

[faeshadow]

If it had been true, I would have been mildly amused at Anita making money off the community she loathes, and would love to play the game and rip it apart to find all the moments that I can twist to look sexist like she does, but...whatever. It would be amusing, but not a travesty.

 

[Something Amyss]

Yes... she could actually improve by stopping to doctoring "evidence"

Like you proceed to do in the rest of that paragraph. Do two wrongs make a right?

Saying stuff like

I would like you to go see his Jimquisition stuff and tell me where he gets flaky? Seriously go check it out. Cause most likely you haven't seen it.

Is pretty condescending and is not any sort of thing you'd see in a debate.

Can't help but notice you still haven't told him where Jim gets flaky.

 

[Something Amyss]

Would you be so kind and provide the evidence for that?

His bio on Twitter and the credits of some or all of the TVW videos list him as a co-writer. So it's partially true. Of course, collaborating with a man is only a bad thing if you care absolutely nothing for truth value of statements or Anita's positions.

I'll do what Anita's critics won't and include the evidence. They likely won't because it actually undermines their claims:

http://www.feministfrequency.com/about/

Important point:

Jonathan McIntosh serves as producer and co-writer on Feminist Frequency?s Tropes vs Women in Video Games web series.

I suppose I should just be impressed that critics have finally found a point they're partially right about.