Hobbit Casting Agent Fired For Dismissing Non-White Hobbits

[pulse2]

I know I'm coming late to this thread, but I have to chime in.

Bullshit.

Hobbits are white. Casting white people as hobbits isn't racist, it's sticking to source material. Is there something wrong with being white? Is it a problem somehow? Seriously, pulling the race card in this case is just moronic.

And your source for the contention that "Hobbits are white" is what, pray tell? If you've got Hobbit photographs proving your point, please post them to the thread. Thanks.

Wait, are you serious? Are you seriously trolling to this extent? Fine, I'll play along, just to confirm my initial impression, which is that you are just being an arse at this point...

1. Quote from the Prologue of The Lord of the Rings, when describing Hobbits: "Their faces were as a rule good-natured rather than beautiful, broad, bright-eyed, red-cheeked, with mouths apt to laughter, and to eating and drinking."

"Red cheeked" pretty much discounts any dark skin coloration since it simply wouldn't stand out. So they were white. Also, the description indicates that there wasn't much variation in their general outward appearance (the whole "as a rule" part of the quoted sentence). Sure, Tolkien might have written "Oh, and they were WHITE. Totally white. Pale white." but THAT would have been racist...

2. As for Hobbit photographs, look up any illustrated edition of Hobbit or LotR. Some of those were done while Tolkien was still alive and have his approval. Find me one single non-white hobbit. I assume you can use Google, so be my guest.

There, I've provided a direct quote from the books indicating they were white and have found no evidence to the contrary.

Also, why is it so important to you that there be non-white Hobbits? Also, a man lost his job over bullshit, which I also find to be a waste.

And, in response and as evidence in opposition to the assertion that all Hobbits are white, I'll quote from the Prologue to The Hobbit wherein Tolkien states that the Harfoot Hobbits (one of what he describes as three distinct "breeds" of Hobbits) are "browner of skin" than the other two breeds (the Fallohides and the Stoors) and that the Fallohides are "fairer of skin and hair" than the Harfoots and Stoors. Contrary to your assertion, it doesn't appear as if the entire race of Hobbits should be viewed as an undifferentiated mass lacking in variations of skin pigmentation and hair colorings across the three breeds.

Moreover, I've looked at the illustrations in the original editions of The Hobbit (which were done by Tolkien himself) and, as best as I can tell, they don't clearly indicate a particular race one way or the other.

As an aside, when asked to provide evidence of your own assertion, it's poor rhetorical form to fail to do so and, instead, invite the inquiring party to go find their own evidence proving your assertion wrong. You're the one insisting that the assertion should be taken as a fact, not I. You should, I believe, try to avoid relying on the fallacious rhetorical crutch of claiming that if the opposing party can't find evidence proving you wrong, therefore you must be right. To do so is intellectual sloth of the worst sort.

OUCH, YOU GOT BURNED JANDAU!!!! lol

I didn't even know that, guess you learn something every day

 

[Arawn.Chernobog]

Hobbit 2 to include Shaq as Bil-B-ball Bagg-it!

"Yo time ta'shoot some hoops into lava, green egg an'hammit y'all!"

 

[JDKJ]

I know I'm coming late to this thread, but I have to chime in.

Bullshit.

Hobbits are white. Casting white people as hobbits isn't racist, it's sticking to source material. Is there something wrong with being white? Is it a problem somehow? Seriously, pulling the race card in this case is just moronic.

And your source for the contention that "Hobbits are white" is what, pray tell? If you've got Hobbit photographs proving your point, please post them to the thread. Thanks.

Wait, are you serious? Are you seriously trolling to this extent? Fine, I'll play along, just to confirm my initial impression, which is that you are just being an arse at this point...

1. Quote from the Prologue of The Lord of the Rings, when describing Hobbits: "Their faces were as a rule good-natured rather than beautiful, broad, bright-eyed, red-cheeked, with mouths apt to laughter, and to eating and drinking."

"Red cheeked" pretty much discounts any dark skin coloration since it simply wouldn't stand out. So they were white. Also, the description indicates that there wasn't much variation in their general outward appearance (the whole "as a rule" part of the quoted sentence). Sure, Tolkien might have written "Oh, and they were WHITE. Totally white. Pale white." but THAT would have been racist...

2. As for Hobbit photographs, look up any illustrated edition of Hobbit or LotR. Some of those were done while Tolkien was still alive and have his approval. Find me one single non-white hobbit. I assume you can use Google, so be my guest.

There, I've provided a direct quote from the books indicating they were white and have found no evidence to the contrary.

Also, why is it so important to you that there be non-white Hobbits? Also, a man lost his job over bullshit, which I also find to be a waste.

And, in response and as evidence in opposition to the assertion that all Hobbits are white, I'll quote from the Prologue to The Hobbit wherein Tolkien states that the Harfoot Hobbits (one of what he describes as three distinct "breeds" of Hobbits) are "browner of skin" than the other two breeds (the Fallohides and the Stoors) and that the Fallohides are "fairer of skin and hair" than the Harfoots and Stoors. Contrary to your assertion, it doesn't appear as if the entire race of Hobbits should be viewed as an undifferentiated mass lacking in variations of skin pigmentation and hair colorings across the three breeds.

Moreover, I've looked at the illustrations in the original editions of The Hobbit (which were done by Tolkien himself) and, as best as I can tell, they don't clearly indicate a particular race one way or the other.

As an aside, when asked to provide evidence of your own assertion, it's poor rhetorical form to fail to do so and, instead, invite the inquiring party to go find their own evidence proving your assertion wrong. You're the one insisting that the assertion should be taken as a fact, not I. You should, I believe, try to avoid relying on the fallacious rhetorical crutch of claiming that if the opposing party can't find evidence proving you wrong, therefore you must be right. To do so is intellectual sloth of the worst sort.

OUCH, YOU GOT BURNED JANDAU!!!! lol

I didn't even know that, guess you learn something every day

The part I found funnier is the snipping of my post (as if that somehow makes it so I never posted it) and the accusation that I'm a troll (which I may be but that doesn't make me wrong -- at best, it just makes me a troll).

 

[maninahat]

I'm against discrimination in most circumstances, but I don't see it as a bad thing in this case: the Hobbits are spposed to be white. They are a rural, single cultural society in the Shire. It wouldn't make sense for there to be ethnic minorities.

What next? Letting Will Smith play as James Bond? Or a white man playing [http://www.blogcdn.com/www.thebvx.com/media/2010/06/orson-welles-as-othello.jpg] Othello [http://www.patrickstewart.org/psn/playtitle.asp?playid=19]...Oh, wait.

 

[dreddfan]

It is nearly as bad as Guinevere being dark skinned in BBC's Merlin.

 

[Hamster at Dawn]

They specified that they wanted people with light skin. Therefore, if you don't have light skin then don't try to audition! It's OK to ask for people of particular races when it's necessary to the part. Hobbits have always been light skinned so it's fair that they don't want anyone with darker skin tones. What I do find odd, however, is that it was only asked of for female hobbits.

 

[TheEndlessSleep]

Racism = wrong

However:

Hobbits = White


Also, if the casting call was for white people, It's kind of that Pakistani lady's fault that she was standing in line all that time because she didn't check the call.

 

[sageoftruth]

Considering hobbits were like Middle-Earth amish guys, who therefore all lived in one place and didn't go traveling, I think any sign of diversity would be a breach of character.

 

[Mr.Squishy]

Whatever.
As long as we don't end up with Chris Tucker as Frodo, I'm satisfied.

 

[JDKJ]

Racism = wrong

However:

Hobbits = White


Also, if the casting call was for white people, It's kind of that Pakistani lady's fault that she was standing in line all that time because she didn't check the call.

Did you read the part of the article that states only women of brown skin were refused the opportunity to audition? If you were a brown-skinned male actor, you could audition. Explain that piece of nonsense with more nonsense like "Hobbits = White." Is it that "Female Hobbits = White but Male Hobbits =/= White?"

 

[UltraParanoia]

Christ, the first few pages had me laughing my ass off.

OT: Pakistani woman is retarded. Darkest you're going to get out of medieval Europe is a Welshman, or if you're lucky, a Spainiard (More than likely the basis for them there darker hobbits, as Spainiards are darker than regular Euros without being fucking middle eastern or African.)
Since I don't think the Tooks had a Harfoot in the woodpile, and since I don't remember reading about them fucking ever, we can safely assume that they fucked off somewhere else.


(Coincidentally, Gollum was a Welshman.The short, theiving, psychotic little bastard that he was, it's kinda obvious)

 

[Cmd. Shepard]

The idea that there's racism involved in this is completely false because the way Tolkien wrote The Hobbit wasn't meant to have a multi-racial collection of tiny folk. Back when he wrote the book he would've been fried for writing a group of multi-cultural folk in....book was circa 1900....Hobbits are meant to be white, so are dwarves, and elves....it's got nothing to do with racism and merely with the way Tolkien wrote the book. The idea that everything needs to be soooooo unbelievably politically correct these days or people whine and complain is childish. So what, the cast needs to be white, that's the way it was written....you want a multi-cultural cast then don't cast for the Hobbit.

 

[JDKJ]

The idea that there's racism involved in this is completely false because the way Tolkien wrote The Hobbit wasn't meant to have a multi-racial collection of tiny folk. Back when he wrote the book he would've been fried for writing a group of multi-cultural folk in....book was circa 1900....Hobbits are meant to be white, so are dwarves, and elves....it's got nothing to do with racism and merely with the way Tolkien wrote the book. The idea that everything needs to be soooooo unbelievably politically correct these days or people whine and complain is childish. So what, the cast needs to be white, that's the way it was written....you want a multi-cultural cast then don't cast for the Hobbit.

The Hobbit was published in 1937. Even with a "circa" qualification, you're off by more than a few years. And you're overlooking the fact that the requirement of light skin applied only to women. Dark-skinned men could audition for the role of a Hobbit. That fact tends to create a gaping hole in your "Hobbits are white so that's how they cast for Hobbits" argument.

 

[Harlief]

With the criteria for casting "light-skinned" someone was bound to kick up a fuss. I'm Caucasian, what this girl has done would be like me applying for the main part in a Martin Luther King Jr biopic.
For some roles you just have to look the part, and hobbits in LOTR are the mythical analogies of pre-industrial English farmer types.

 

[Soylent Dave]

It's possible this has been pointed out, but I got sick of wading through the racism after a page or two.

At what point does Tolkien describe the skin colour of the hobbits? He doesn't really describe the skin colour of many people in Lord of the Rings (He might do it with the Southrons / Haradrim, but I can't remember).


He describes hobbits at length in the foreword of LotR, and doesn't think to mention a specific skin colour when talking about hobbits in general (the closest he gets is 'red cheeked', which you can get with most ethnicities).

He does point out that they all have curly hair, though (and it's nearly always brown) - which is actually more common in people who aren't white.

He tells us that halflings in general come from sunnier climes (and so could well have a tendency towards being dark-skinned). He specifically points out that the Harfoot branch of hobbits are "browner of skin" (whereas the Fallohides are "fairer of skin and also of hair") - something that seems to indicate ethnic diversity within the Shire as well as non-white Hobbits.

If you assume the hobbits are white, it's probably because you are white; a reader tends to apply his own norms to whatever he is reading. You can point out that an author also does this - and that if Tolkien didn't see the need to point out someone's skin tone, he probably meant they were 'normal' (i.e. 'like him') - and Tolkien was white. But that's still an inference we're making as readers.

-

We also know from the history of the Dwarves that they tend to live underground - so they'd be pretty damn pale. But we tend to think of them (and cast them) as having a ruddy complexion. And being Scottish - even though Tolkien wanted them to be Norwegian, and gave them Old Norse names.

So it's not like the book is considered all that sacred when it's being turned into a film.

 

[The Stonker]

But all the hobbits which are described in the Hobbit are white?

....

I hate the policy which people have conjured up "There has to be one black guy in the movie or it's racist!!!"
Freaking idiocrasy.

 

[TheEndlessSleep]

Racism = wrong

However:

Hobbits = White


Also, if the casting call was for white people, It's kind of that Pakistani lady's fault that she was standing in line all that time because she didn't check the call.

Did you read the part of the article that states only women of brown skin were refused the opportunity to audition? If you were a brown-skinned male actor, you could audition. Explain that piece of nonsense with more nonsense like "Hobbits = White." Is it that "Female Hobbits = White but Male Hobbits =/= White?"

My bad, misread it.

Even so:

I don't condone the sexism, but what I said before still stands.

 

[JDKJ]

Racism = wrong

However:

Hobbits = White


Also, if the casting call was for white people, It's kind of that Pakistani lady's fault that she was standing in line all that time because she didn't check the call.

Did you read the part of the article that states only women of brown skin were refused the opportunity to audition? If you were a brown-skinned male actor, you could audition. Explain that piece of nonsense with more nonsense like "Hobbits = White." Is it that "Female Hobbits = White but Male Hobbits =/= White?"

My bad, misread it.

Even so:

I don't condone the sexism, but what I said before still stands.

If by "what I said before still stands" you're referring to the part about "the casting call was for white people" and everything which follows that statement, then you can let it stand all you want. But that doesn't mean it's not a false statement and that everything which follows it is not an incorrect conclusion.

And I suspect that you may have misread The Hobbit, also (assuming you've ever read it). It doesn't say that Hobbits are white. It says that the majority of the Hobbits on the Shire are of brown skin.

You should try to pay close attention to what you read. That's a good way to avoid looking like a complete moron.

 

[Furious Styles]

Its ridiculous to expect to be cast as a hobbit when you're dark skinned. Hobbits are white, its not racist to want white actors to play them.

But the whole thing about it only applying to women doesn't make sense, though.

 

[RamirezDoEverything]

While racsism is bad, I have to agree with him dismissing non-white hobbits. I mean, aren't all hobbits white? Or at least the tooks?

It's like dismissing a white guy for playing a role as a slave in a civil war film, it's not discrimination, it's just what the role asks for.

This world is so stupid...