Homefront, implosibility in games.

[Catchy Slogan]

really any invasion of the states is pretty silly unless its by canada or mexico and they havent had any reason to invade in awhile

the wonderful thing about an ocean is its hard to cross and your very vulnerable when your crossing it and when you land so an invasion is stupid

May I introduce you to something called the Ekranoplan? [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ekranoplan]


OT: the thing I find most unrealistic is that Korea combined would have no wher near the sheer man-power needed to simply occupy the US, let alone invade and succeed.

 

[Mantonio]

The Homefront scenario is plausible if you look at the timeline and such on their site. You look at the first thing that happens on that timeline and say 'Yeah, that would have been possible then'. Then you look at the next bit and say 'Well if that bit had happened before, then yes this bit could happen too'. And so on and so forth until suddenly the Kim's are knocking on your door.

 

[Hero in a half shell]

snippety

Yes, North Korea is a bit too implausible given their current status, but the writer originally wanted to make China the invaders (A lot more plausible) but couldn't and decided NK was the next best thing.

You're making out citizens to be a disorganized rabble. We most certainly are not. Gun clubs and police departments could easily wage guerrilla campaigns on any invaders, and that's just the already organized groups. Just because you have tanks and planes doesn't mean the war is automatically won. Just ask the Viet Cong how well that mentality worked out against them. Also, people waging guerrilla wars would probably take their family with them. I know women who are excellent shots, so wives probably would fight too, as well as kids over a certain age.

The Viet Cong was a proper military organisation, supplied by North Korea, and North Korea pumped soldiers into the region as well. It is actually a pretty good example of how ineffective guns and inferior military tech. are against an organised military, One of the main reasons the Americans pulled out of Vietnam was propaganda, that they couldn't gain any support from any local Vietnamese people, and the images coming back of the war torn areas and people suffering meant that the American people also lost faith in the war.

However, If you look at the cold statistics, the Americans lost about 58,000 military deaths overall. The Viet Cong lost an estimated 251,000, and North Korea forces lost around 1 million men. America should have been wiping the floor with Vietnam, but they lost on the propagande front, because the sheer numbers of armed people fighting against them meant that every battle turned into a massacre, and then the aftermath of that massacre was broadcast across the world (for example the Tet Offensive). With the level of gun-ownership in America, peacefully occupying the country is virtually impossible, but all the American people can hope to do is be enough of a nuisance to the invaders that they lose their taste for occupying the country, that the benefits gained by holding the USA are outweighed by the civil unrest, and this would be very likely achieved if the civilian population went all out guerrilla fighting, but there would be very few engagements that the American civilians could come off better from, their losses would be catastrophic.

 

[striderkiwi]

Yeah the story of Homefront is not only not that great but also definitely not even possible. Usually this stuff never bothers me because I don't like to play games that are too realistic (i prefer games like Bioshock and Fire Emblem) but this game pretends to be a realistic take me serious so i can compete with Black Ops kind of game.

 

[artanis_neravar]

snippety

Yes, North Korea is a bit too implausible given their current status, but the writer originally wanted to make China the invaders (A lot more plausible) but couldn't and decided NK was the next best thing.

Actually China is a lot less probable. China relies on the US just like the US relies on China.
"the reality of economic interdependence between America and China that made the Chinese 'not that scary'"

Yeah the story of Homefront is not only not that great but also definitely not even possible. Usually this stuff never bothers me because I don't like to play games that are too realistic (i prefer games like Bioshock and Fire Emblem) but this game pretends to be a realistic take me serious so i can compete with Black Ops kind of game.

Spoiler: Backstory

In 2013, one year after the succession of Kim Jong-Il, North Korean leader Kim Jong-un reunites North and South Korea to form the Greater Korean Republic. The influence of China and the United States decline in the face of continued economic stagnation and a war between Iran and Saudi Arabia disrupting Middle East oil supply, while Europe is cut off by a Russian-Ukrainian "mutual interest" deal. As the United States withdraws overseas troops to deal with domestic instability, including the Texas secession detate and an outbreak of bird flu known as the Knoxville Cough, the Greater Korean Republic annexes Japan and several Southeast Asian countries. By 2022, the United States economic began to downfall, reducing into a bleak stake country. Finally, in 2025, a satellite, launched under the cover of a program to replace the decaying Global Positioning System, detonates a nuclear electromagnetic pulse over the continental United States. The destruction of above-ground electronics across the country is followed by troop landings in Hawaii and San Francisco, paratrooper droppings across the Midwest, and the irradiation of the Mississippi River to divide the United States. The American military remains isolated and scattered."

The backstory is very possible, it is just improbable (which was their intention) because everything would have to go exactly right for it to happen this way.

 

[MrGalactus]

written by John Milius = don't take it seriously.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Spoiler: snip

The Viet Cong was a proper military organisation, supplied by North Korea, and North Korea pumped soldiers into the region as well. It is actually a pretty good example of how ineffective guns and inferior military tech. are against an organised military, One of the main reasons the Americans pulled out of Vietnam was propaganda, that they couldn't gain any support from any local Vietnamese people, and the images coming back of the war torn areas and people suffering meant that the American people also lost faith in the war.

However, If you look at the cold statistics, the Americans lost about 58,000 military deaths overall. The Viet Cong lost an estimated 251,000, and North Korea forces lost around 1 million men. America should have been wiping the floor with Vietnam, but they lost on the propagande front, because the sheer numbers of armed people fighting against them meant that every battle turned into a massacre, and then the aftermath of that massacre was broadcast across the world (for example the Tet Offensive). With the level of gun-ownership in America, peacefully occupying the country is virtually impossible, but all the American people can hope to do is be enough of a nuisance to the invaders that they lose their taste for occupying the country, that the benefits gained by holding the USA are outweighed by the civil unrest, and this would be very likely achieved if the civilian population went all out guerrilla fighting, but there would be very few engagements that the American civilians could come off better from, their losses would be catastrophic.

Vietnam, not Korea.

It helped that the South Vietnamese leadership included horrendous amounts of corruption.

For that matter, people like MacNamara were running the US military, pissing off the locals and fucking over the US soldiers.

Even so, the US (and allies) had total military superiority, it's just that military superiority was mostly irrelevant.

 

[Worgen]

really any invasion of the states is pretty silly unless its by canada or mexico and they havent had any reason to invade in awhile

the wonderful thing about an ocean is its hard to cross and your very vulnerable when your crossing it and when you land so an invasion is stupid

May I introduce you to something called the Ekranoplan? [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ekranoplan]


OT: the thing I find most unrealistic is that Korea combined would have no wher near the sheer man-power needed to simply occupy the US, let alone invade and succeed.

that thing is pretty neat but I still think it would suck at a land invasion, sure its fast but we dont know how it deals with shallow water, it looks like it would need a specially converted dock not to mention it still cant carry that much

 

[Catchy Slogan]

that thing is pretty neat but I still think it would suck at a land invasion, sure its fast but we dont know how it deals with shallow water, it looks like it would need a specially converted dock not to mention it still cant carry that much

It also works on land. It's continually stuck at the point of nearly taking off/ about to land, and when that happens, a sort of buffer of air is formed beneath the wing, which it rides on. It works best on all types of water, as land tends to have bigger, more solid oblsticles. and with the whole docking thing, its wings have those bouyuncy things so it would work like sea planes. It also has a sort of cargo door that can lower at the back and troops/vehicles can be taken out by boats.

I do admit that it has it's faults. Like stopping and turning for example. It would take far too long and make quick maneuvers almost impossible, and trying to stop it would take ages, so if you see any icebergs/other ships, you're pretty much screwed. Also, it's pretty loud.

I don't claim to be an expert about these, but I just find them interesting.

 

[Hamhandderhard]

Huh

I'm suprised to see no mention of World in Conflict. A game that's premise was the Soviet Union somehow having the manpower to not only fight a convential war in Europe, the Middle East, and a bunch of other countries but also to sneak thousands of men and thousands of tanks and APCs and stuff along with hundreds of paratrooper planes and fighter jets into Seattle. Unrealistic? Yeah, no mention of Canadian support, The United States doesn't go batshit insane when hearing about the invasions and most missions have you undersupplied, under manned, against overwhelming Soviet forces. I think that the President could have at least said "Alright, the Soviets have landed several divisions worth of men and material on American Soil and all we have to fight with are National Guard units. Screw it, send in some regular army troops that aren't fighting over seas as fast as you can and make sure that the men on the front lines are supplied and rested."

But it was cool, because I thought it was a steller game.

 

[Frozen Donkey Wheel2]

Yes, because games are the only form of media that have EVER posited an implausible story. OH FUCKING WAIT I forgot about every single action movie ever made.

It's just fiction, and it's not supposed to be anything BUT fiction. It's not like they're trying to warn us about an invasion, they were just trying to tell a story, nothing more.

What is so wrong about that?

 

[Worgen]

that thing is pretty neat but I still think it would suck at a land invasion, sure its fast but we dont know how it deals with shallow water, it looks like it would need a specially converted dock not to mention it still cant carry that much

It also works on land. It's continually stuck at the point of nearly taking off/ about to land, and when that happens, a sort of buffer of air is formed beneath the wing, which it rides on. It works best on all types of water, as land tends to have bigger, more solid oblsticles. and with the whole docking thing, its wings have those bouyuncy things so it would work like sea planes. It also has a sort of cargo door that can lower at the back and troops/vehicles can be taken out by boats.

I do admit that it has it's faults. Like stopping and turning for example. It would take far too long and make quick maneuvers almost impossible, and trying to stop it would take ages, so if you see any icebergs/other ships, you're pretty much screwed. Also, it's pretty loud.

I don't claim to be an expert about these, but I just find them interesting.

they certainly are interesting, I just dont think they would really work well in war... but then again I dont really know much about them at all aside from whats in that vid

 

[w9496]

I mean, in the time I'm hiding behind cover and waiting for my health to regen, with the enemies spewing infinite bullets in my general direction with the aim of a blind man, I wanna feel like I'm in a real world, damn it!

Spoiler: Also: the U.S. isn't invunerable. As shattering as that is to some egos, it's all too true. You know why there are no major wars between some of the Eastern lands and America? Hmm? Because why would you! It's called trade. Money = peace.

America may not be invulnerable, but we are a damn strong country with one of the largest militaries on the face of the Earth.

I'm not familiar with the story, but wouldn't the U.N. be all over an aggressor towards the Uniteds States?

 

[Catchy Slogan]

they certainly are interesting, I just dont think they would really work well in war... but then again I dont really know much about them at all aside from whats in that vid

I put a hyperlink in my original post to a wiki page. here it is again

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ekranoplan

 

[squid5580]

really any invasion of the states is pretty silly unless its by canada or mexico and they havent had any reason to invade in awhile

the wonderful thing about an ocean is its hard to cross and your very vulnerable when your crossing it and when you land so an invasion is stupid

Uhh we have these magical flying doo hickeys called airplanes now. Makes travelling the ocean a wee less daunting. Also like to point out how much destruction a few guys can do. Let alone a full on country.

And in HF it was months at least into the invasion. And they were defending places like community centres and housing projects not anywhere strategic. It was like a little town got invaded and the enemy had won there but the war in the rest of the country was still being fought.

 

[ikillu87]

But the U.S. isn't as stupid as the game portrays us. Isn't the main character a civilian? Don't the Koreans cross the ocean? Why do the marines fail to kill six Koreans where the main character is out there killing hundreds? They make an interesting game that is why

No, he was a Marine Aviator.

 

[Worgen]

really any invasion of the states is pretty silly unless its by canada or mexico and they havent had any reason to invade in awhile

the wonderful thing about an ocean is its hard to cross and your very vulnerable when your crossing it and when you land so an invasion is stupid

Uhh we have these magical flying doo hickeys called airplanes now. Makes travelling the ocean a wee less daunting. Also like to point out how much destruction a few guys can do. Let alone a full on country.

And in HF it was months at least into the invasion. And they were defending places like community centres and housing projects not anywhere strategic. It was like a little town got invaded and the enemy had won there but the war in the rest of the country was still being fought.

the thing about airplanes though, is they cant carry much, its not hard to knock out an aerial invasion let along doing one in secret and not having it get shot down on its way over, sure a few guys can do allot of damage but its likely they wont since it requires allot of things to work just right or else they get caught or killed, especially if the country they are attacking is on alert for that sort of thing, really the only way I could see an invasion of america happening is if we have another civil war and that greatly depletes us

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

In fiction anything is plausible so long as it is well backed up by the story. Good writing can make the impossible not only seem possible, but easy to imagine and to care about. Homefront did not have good writing. Had same story been handled by a different, better development team and it could have been realistically portrayed and brilliant. There's nothing wrong with the premise per-say, the development team just did a piss poor job making it work.

 

[Kahunaburger]

In fiction anything is plausible so long as it is well backed up by the story. Good writing can make the impossible not only seem possible, but easy to imagine and to care about. Homefront did not have good writing. Had same story been handled by a different, better development team and it could have been realistically portrayed and brilliant. There's nothing wrong with the premise per-say, the development team just did a piss poor job making it work.

Honestly, the only FPS games I've ever played that I would consider particularly well-written are TF2 and Borderlands (and of course Metriod Prime/Echoes and New Vegas if you consider those FPS), and none of them had a gritty/cover-based/realistic in their body. The problem, IMO, is that a lot of FPS games take themselves seriously in a very Tom Clancy sort of way - the whole "SRLSLY GUISE TIHS CUD HAPEN!!1!!" thing - and then throw some amazingly implausible scenarios at us.

 

[Canid117]

People are still talking about Homefront? Weird...