Homefront Studio Responds to Crunch Time Complaints

[RabbiiFrystofsk]

What a little *****, my mum used to work from 7am-10pm everyday, 5 days a week sometimes and she didn't even have to! She's 50 and has back problems and this guy is moaning?
Gees, some people need a right kick up the arse.

 

[Slycne]

well look at it from our point of view, how much do they make? how many extra hours they get for crunch time? i know, "time lines" "stress" and all that stuff, when they are done they ussually have a few months to relax and bask in the money they made (what i think i might be wrong) AND the bonusses some of them get for working overtime, its not a cuttroath job, they knew what they were getting into when they accepted the job

Most, if not all, of these people are salary not hourly workers, so they are not getting any extra compensation for increased hours.

 

[Numb1lp]

Can't it be abhorrent even if it's common?

Yeah, but if other people can deal with it, why can't they?

 

[HentMas]

well look at it from our point of view, how much do they make? how many extra hours they get for crunch time? i know, "time lines" "stress" and all that stuff, when they are done they ussually have a few months to relax and bask in the money they made (what i think i might be wrong) AND the bonusses some of them get for working overtime, its not a cuttroath job, they knew what they were getting into when they accepted the job

Most, if not all, of these people are salary not hourly workers, so they are not getting any extra compensation for increased hours.

Ok i agree with that, still it seems like a fair deal, but thats just my point of view

 

[Ericb]

i know programming can be really really dull, i have done some basic programming in my school days, but hell i didnt pursued that career for the same reason, they did, you would think they knew what they were getting into, and "crunch time" being so famous they KNEW what they were doing.

Working as a web developer, I grasp the concept of huge amounts of applied knowledge in short periods of time. I never found it dull, but at times very exhausting. Physical training hours on end haven't tired as some days programming in the office.

About the employees knowing where they were getting into, here's a snippet of Kaos Studios mission statement [http://www.kaosstudios.com/kaosculture.html], with relevant sections emphasized:

Quality (of Life) Assurance

Above all, we are driven to ensure that our employees have a high quality of life and a good work/life balance. While game development ? like any entertainment business ? is a profession that lives on deadlines and overtime, Kaos places a high premium on our employees coming to work refreshed, relaxed, and ready to make industry-leading games. Key to that is our deployment of Scrum and Agile methodologies, our commitment to an 8-hour workday, and our refusal to burn out our employees. While we may not be able to eliminate overtime and crunch completely, we're constantly evolving our business to better meet the needs of both the project and the long-term health and happiness of our workforce.

They honestly stated the possibility of incidental crunch times. It happens, though it shows a mistake in project management somewhere down the road.

But when you talk about an entire semester's woth of crunch time, there was no mistake there. This is deliberate decision and goes against the official public stance of the company.

 

[HentMas]

i know programming can be really really dull, i have done some basic programming in my school days, but hell i didnt pursued that career for the same reason, they did, you would think they knew what they were getting into, and "crunch time" being so famous they KNEW what they were doing.

Working as a web developer, I grasp the concept of huge amounts of applied knowledge in short periods of time. I never found it dull, but at times very exhausting. Physical training hours on end haven't tired as some days programming in the office.

About the employees knowing where they were getting into, here's a snippet of Kaos Studios mission statement [http://www.kaosstudios.com/kaosculture.html], with relevant sections emphasized:

Quality (of Life) Assurance

Above all, we are driven to ensure that our employees have a high quality of life and a good work/life balance. While game development ? like any entertainment business ? is a profession that lives on deadlines and overtime, Kaos places a high premium on our employees coming to work refreshed, relaxed, and ready to make industry-leading games. Key to that is our deployment of Scrum and Agile methodologies, our commitment to an 8-hour workday, and our refusal to burn out our employees. While we may not be able to eliminate overtime and crunch completely, we're constantly evolving our business to better meet the needs of both the project and the long-term health and happiness of our workforce.

They honestly stated the possibility of incidental crunch times. It happens, though it shows a mistake in project management somewhere down the road.

But when you talk about an entire semester's woth of crunch time, there was no mistake there. This is deliberate decision and goes against the official public stance of the company.

ok now, that is a very good point, still, i dont think if it was the right thing to post it online and whine about it, i´m sure there are other better, propper channels to resolve this kind of conflict

i seriously never would have immagined a developer would put such statement... but i dont really know if that "8-hour workday" was actually managed in a sense where this could have being avoided

i guess we need the full pieces of the puzzle to really make a desition.


also OOT: how much crunch time do you people think "Duke Nukem Forever" did??.... or is doing??? haha

 

[mattaui]

Pft. I work 10 hour days every week. Also, not all ten hour days are created equal. It's hard to find a job that you'd actually want that's a cushy 8 hours.

 

[Alphavillain]

A story like this just goes to show that all this effort goes into making a game (not just "Homefront") and a few days after release most people that played it have already forgotten, and moved on to something new. It seems like such a waste of effort.

 

[Infinatex]

you talk to your employer about that? I'm pretty sure that your hourly wage is less than minimum.

actually, the minimun wage here in MX is of USD $0.57 an hour... so yeah, i´m making well above the minimun

shitty economy is shitty

You've got to be joking. Damn, dude. Here in Texas, it's $7.25/hour. Get here ASAP.

Even that sucks! It's $15 here in Australia!

 

[2up]

I personally am dying to break into the gaming industry, I would sleep in the office if I had to and do it for free. ANYTHING to get my foot in the door.

Why the heck are they complaining?!?!?!?!?!

Maybe because they have a family to go home to. You know, like a wife or children.

I don't have a problem with 10 hours a day, but for 6 months consecutively is quite ridiculous. I chalk that up to bad project management and setting unrealistic goals.

 

[Dogstile]

What I find incredible is that over at Gamasutra where about 90% of the commenters actually work inside the industry, most of them agree that the usual practice of crunch time is very damaging to the game creation process.

Yet here, where 90% are not directly involved, tell developers to suck it up and do their job.

If that's the value most players give to the videogame creators (which sounds about like the managers seem to give them), it's no wonder more and more developers eventually choose other areas to work in.

Hey look, I'm currently making games myself, i'm in that 10%!

THEY CAN SUCK IT UP AND WORK.

I have a deadline of next week to finish my game, yeah, sure, its only college. But i'm pulling 12 hours a day, every day. It's honestly not that horrible and while I miss seeing my friends as much, at least i'm busy.

 

[The Critic]

My sympathy to the developers. Long hours are not healthy, even if they are justified as necessary.

 

[Ericb]

Hey look, I'm currently making games myself, i'm in that 10%!

THEY CAN SUCK IT UP AND WORK.

I have a deadline of next week to finish my game, yeah, sure, its only college. But i'm pulling 12 hours a day, every day. It's honestly not that horrible and while I miss seeing my friends as much, at least i'm busy.

As it is "only college" as you have said it yourself, it seems safe to say that no, you're not yet part of those 10% who support their livelihood and that of their loved ones through this line of work.

Other areas of programming do not compare in terms of complaints from across the board. Specially given what ex-game developers have to say about their job experience outside of the game industry. It paints it like the work maturity in the latter is far behind their older cousins.

When a considerable number of professionals with a long road behind them in a particular area of expertise seriously complain about something, it stands to reason that one would consider carefully whether that is some rare phenomenon of collective whining or if there might be the remote possibility of unfair working conditions.

ok now, that is a very good point, still, i dont think if it was the right thing to post it online and whine about it, i´m sure there are other better, propper channels to resolve this kind of conflict.

As I am sure there aren't.

The amount of time it took for these things to be made public, starting with the EA Spouse, shows that the "proper" channels are not proper at all.

Even as it stands nowadays, there are very little people who speak out on these issues, even when it resounds so strongly among long-time developers. Most of them can't afford to lose their jobs.

The companies on the other hands can definitely can afford to simply hire younger blood, as they understand that there are ample supplies of enthusiastic programmers out there willing to be underpaid and overworked for a chance to make the game of their dreams.

Until they burn out and open room for newer blood still.

I really recommend all of you take a look at the frequent discussions the members over at Gamasutra [http://www.gamasutra.com/] have in regards to these issues. I myself have become much better informed of what those working conditions entail after reading about different backgrounds and experiences from people with the 10-year mark game developing.

 

[LordSphinx]

If you don't get how outrageous this situation is, you clearly are a perfect little pawn. Crunch time is NOT necessary, it is very destructive and most people that gets into this industry quit after 5 years. That's because when you want a family, hobbies and a social life, you can't afford to spend the third of every years being nothing but a SLAVE for 80+ hours a week for months. And the pay is most of the time ridiculously small when compared with most jobs that make you work that much (And that's when they do pay for overtime, I'm looking at you Ubisoft).

If we are to ever have games that are less teen-male power fantasy and more real adult oriented, we need to stop bleeding our workforce once they hit 25 years old. It is NOT normal to have to choose between video games and real life.

If I could legally punch David Votypka in the face right now, I would. Developers must unite and do something for themselves. Being led by assholes such as him hurt so many families, that's a real f'ing tragedy.

As for all the teenagers here who think "hell yeah, I can't wait to do crunch time!". We'll see about that once your first two sucky projects are over, kids.

 

[blarghblarghhhhh]

you see this alot in the medical community. Where i work cna's work twelve hour shifts and if they get mandated to stay they are there for 18.

 

[WingedFortress]

Every single shift I work is a 10 hour one. More, if I'm lucky. What the hell are they complaining about?

 

[Worgen]

ugh this thread is depressing, makes me want to give up college and just invest in lotto tickets

 

[Worgen]

What a little *****, my mum used to work from 7am-10pm everyday, 5 days a week sometimes and she didn't even have to! She's 50 and has back problems and this guy is moaning?
Gees, some people need a right kick up the arse.

your mom sounds like shes is in dire need of a union

in my day we worked 15 hours a day, 8 days a week and we were damn great full for it, because we were stupid and didnt know that there was such a thing is fun.... and the companies owned us..... and paid us in script.......

 

[BabyRaptor]

I can see how these people are complaining, but at the same time...These complaints always make me think back to my two tours in Iraq. 12 hours on, 12 off, on call on my off hours, no days "off," constantly getting yelled at and...Other not fun stuff. For 20 months the first round and 23 the second.

Wonder how they'd take that?