Homosexual Representation

[Retoru]

Not trying to offend any gays or lesbians.


But homosexuals are not "normal" they are wrong in having relationships with the oppisate sex.
Regular people dont want to hang out with homosexuals because then other people would assume that the straight people are homosexual.
I personaly dont like homosexuals because homoexuality is a sin against my religon.

Please, read something other than your bible from time to time. Or, if you insist upon only reading it, at least stop cherry-picking it. Believe it all or believe none of it. Let me help you a bit. I know the passage you're using for your "sin" argument is Leviticus 20:13 which reads "If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."

Ok, but let's look deeper at the bible, still staying in Leviticus cuz it has some great stuff. How about Leviticus 20:9 which tells us we should kill unruly children? "For everyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother. His blood shall be upon him."

Then there's Leviticus 20:18 that tells us to ostracize anyone who engages in intercourse during a woman's menstrual period. "If a man lies with a woman during her sickness and uncovers her nakedness, he has discovered her flow, and she has uncovered the flow of her blood. Both of them shall be cut off from her people."

Leviticus 22:44-45 says we can own immigrants as slaves..."Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property."

Leviticus 19:27 says you can't ever get a hair cut or shave your beard..."Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard."

Leviticus 19:19 says we can't wear clothing made of two fibers or plant two crops on one parcel of land..."...do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. Do not wear material woven of two kinds of material."

Leviticus 11:10-12 says we can't eat mussels, arthropods(lobsters and crabs) or shellfish..."But all in the seas or in the rivers that do not have fins and scales, all that move in the water or any living thing which is in the water, they are an abomination to you. They (shellfish) shall be an abomination to you; you shall not eat their flesh, but you shall regard their carcasses as an abomination. Whatever in the water does not have fins or scales; that shall be an abomination to you."

You get the point yet? And, no I didn't make any of these up, grab your bible and take a look. Like I said, either stop selectively believing in the bullshit that book says or believe in ALL the bullshit it says. After all, it is the word of god, is it not? That means that it just HAS to be as relevant now as it was when it was written, am I right?

Really this amuses me, how can you take the old testament (under the law or "under the blood") and relate it to the age of grace, or the church age? As a non christian I guess you would assume laws meant for the jewish people in the old testament (under the law) era as relevent to those under the age of grace. So I can see how you would make the mistake, but really for those times those laws had a purpose. the not eating shellfish was because they aren't always clean or if you don't cook them right you can get sick for example. There is also laws saying free debts every 7 years or not planting every 7th year. These where based on reason, IE if you plant wheat every year forever in the same field you deplete it of nutrients etc. Or to stop you from holding slaves forever.

All those laws you mention have a reason even if it doesn't make sense to us(in unregenerate state). Yes under the law was a harsh time but you can't take that in some attempt to make a religion something its not, and say it applies to us in the age of grace.

The "Age of Grace"? That sounds like a load to me, but I'll go with the flow. But, I have to ask a simple question: Why are the other passages archaic and no longer relevant, but the one about homosexuality is still alright? Could it be because you're using your holy book as a justification for you to be small minded and ignorant? Using your diety's supposed hatred of homosexuality to back up your bigotry, perhaps?

You really should read your holy book, it states many times that this god fellow loves all people equally with an unending perfect love. So, he can't very well hate homosexuals since they fall under the heading of "all people".

Also, keep in mind that most mental health professionals agree on the root causes of homophobia, namely that you have repressed feelings of latent homosexuality yourself and you lash out against homosexuals as your own way of dealing with your own desires to engage in homosexual behavior. Instead of being a homophobe just go fellate a dude, you'll feel better in the end...the rear end...nooch!

 

[cathou]

actually, looking at the reply in this thread i realise how much the general perception of gays have change in the last 15 years. In games, well, keep in mind that most of the time you dont really know the sexual orientation of the caracter, because it have very few influence in the game. Since we can state than an homosexual is a normal person who is attracted to his/her own gender, unless you have specific reference to romantic/sexual relationship, you dont know if the caracter is gay or not.

but...

in Sims 2 you can date you own gender, in fable II too
In fallout 3 you can have sex with the prostitute in Megaton, even if you are a girl.
In KotOR 2, one fo the Jedi is lesbian
etc...

 

[Flying Dagger]

is there seriously people who give a s**t about this?
if it really bugs you, there's always character creation.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Am I the only one who finds Torchwood and all of its characters completely unlikeable?

probably. here in england it's a crime to speak against doctor who or any spin off show they produce.
punishable by being publicly proved wrong :hawhawhaw:

 

[D_987]

Fable 2?

 

[sneakypenguin]

Really this amuses me, how can you take the old testament (under the law or "under the blood") and relate it to the age of grace, or the church age? As a non christian I guess you would assume laws meant for the jewish people in the old testament (under the law) era as relevent to those under the age of grace. So I can see how you would make the mistake, but really for those times those laws had a purpose. the not eating shellfish was because they aren't always clean or if you don't cook them right you can get sick for example. There is also laws saying free debts every 7 years or not planting every 7th year. These where based on reason, IE if you plant wheat every year forever in the same field you deplete it of nutrients etc. Or to stop you from holding slaves forever.

All those laws you mention have a reason even if it doesn't make sense to us(in unregenerate state). Yes under the law was a harsh time but you can't take that in some attempt to make a religion something its not, and say it applies to us in the age of grace.

The "Age of Grace"? That sounds like a load to me, but I'll go with the flow. But, I have to ask a simple question: Why are the other passages archaic and no longer relevant, but the one about homosexuality is still alright? Could it be because you're using your holy book as a justification for you to be small minded and ignorant? Using your diety's supposed hatred of homosexuality to back up your bigotry, perhaps?

You really should read your holy book, it states many times that this god fellow loves all people equally with an unending perfect love. So, he can't very well hate homosexuals since they fall under the heading of "all people".

Also, keep in mind that most mental health professionals agree on the root causes of homophobia, namely that you have repressed feelings of latent homosexuality yourself and you lash out against homosexuals as your own way of dealing with your own desires to engage in homosexual behavior. Instead of being a homophobe just go fellate a dude, you'll feel better in the end...the rear end...nooch!

Yes God does love homosexuals. But, you can disagree/hate the sin without a hatred for the individual. Because you forbid you child from something and have a punishment in store if they do said action does not make you hate them. Same with God and homosexuality, stealing, lying, etc. He hates the sin but loves the individual.

As far as selecting which passages I believe or whatnot. Well you have to look at the context under which a passage was written. The jewish people were in the old testament under a theocracy(until the time of saul and david) and God had certain laws that applied only to the jews(ie circumcision). In the age of grace(the new testament after Christ died) the law was thrown out for the jewish people as a prerequisite for salvation, since it was now faith based rather than works. Also IIRC homosexuality was banned in the new testament, even if not it falls under premarital sex/ lasciviousness. God bans premarital sex, and marriage in the Bible is only between a man and woman. After marriage God gives his okay for sex, this is also why many Christians are big on abstinence.

I don't have a fear of gays, I hear the "your secretly afraid your gay so you hate gays" thing all the time. It seems like such a throwaway argument. Do I hate communism because I have some innate fear that I'm secretly communist? No. Likewise my dislike of homosexuality(not the gays themselves) stems from a logic derived from my beliefs. You might claim (and legitimately so) that the logic is faulty(in your eyes) but that doesn't make me a homophobe.

 

[SenseOfTumour]

Look at everyone on TV you've ever seen, they're all either gay or bisexual, they're just not stereotypically showing it.

Glad to help.

I'm with the above people who've pretty much stated, most people will only register a character as gay, if he (a) acts all campy, or (b) kisses or makes sexual moves on another man. (I'm speaking from the male viewpoint here).

I've only seen rare bits of 'House' for example, but having not seen him dating or leering at a woman, its quite possible to me that he's gay.

To me really, however, I feel we're moving in the right direction where some gay people are being portrayed as just regular guys who happen to prefer men romantically.

Also, remembering the occasional times I saw 'Will and Grace', yes THAT. While I can't remember names, one was flaming stereotype and the other was more subtle, still as subtle as a sledgehammer, it being a bog standard sitcom, but it's not like every gay character was exactly the same.

 

[SenseOfTumour]

I think that's kinda the point of the whole topic.

'Normal' (and that's a debate for another day), gay people are all around us, they're just not rollerblading past you in hotpants and glitter and a ' I love cock in my butt' t shirt.

They're just nodding as you come into work in the morning and going 'Hi Dave, did ya see the game at the weekend?' and going drinking after work and doing all the other stuff.

Also, they're a minority, I don't pretend to either know the figures or care enough to back up my meandering with facts, but another reason I've not met many gay people, is the same reason I've never met a guy from Luxembourg, there's not many around me.

The way I see it, if I found my friends were gay, it wouldn't even be relevant, because with my self image , I couldnt for a moment believe they'd find me attractive, heh.

 

[Labyrinth]

The issue here is really audience. If you were to have a main character option as homosexual, that'd be find for things like RPG games but anything else would feel unusual. Because most people aren't homosexual they're unlikely to connect and play with a first-person character who is. A third-person character would be more likely but even then it'd be more difficult to insert oneself into it. How would you present their sexuality anyway? Having a back story with a same-sex partner seems an obvious possibility.

Homosexual NPCs are something else, but portraying them becomes difficult because it's difficult to do without relying on cliche. If you don't wish to go for stereotypes you could find it really hard.

I doubt it's helped by homophobia on the internet and on gaming forums and the like. I just don't see developers doing something which at first glance appears so shockingly unprofitable.

 

[Retoru]

Really this amuses me, how can you take the old testament (under the law or "under the blood") and relate it to the age of grace, or the church age? As a non christian I guess you would assume laws meant for the jewish people in the old testament (under the law) era as relevent to those under the age of grace. So I can see how you would make the mistake, but really for those times those laws had a purpose. the not eating shellfish was because they aren't always clean or if you don't cook them right you can get sick for example. There is also laws saying free debts every 7 years or not planting every 7th year. These where based on reason, IE if you plant wheat every year forever in the same field you deplete it of nutrients etc. Or to stop you from holding slaves forever.

All those laws you mention have a reason even if it doesn't make sense to us(in unregenerate state). Yes under the law was a harsh time but you can't take that in some attempt to make a religion something its not, and say it applies to us in the age of grace.

The "Age of Grace"? That sounds like a load to me, but I'll go with the flow. But, I have to ask a simple question: Why are the other passages archaic and no longer relevant, but the one about homosexuality is still alright? Could it be because you're using your holy book as a justification for you to be small minded and ignorant? Using your diety's supposed hatred of homosexuality to back up your bigotry, perhaps?

You really should read your holy book, it states many times that this god fellow loves all people equally with an unending perfect love. So, he can't very well hate homosexuals since they fall under the heading of "all people".

Also, keep in mind that most mental health professionals agree on the root causes of homophobia, namely that you have repressed feelings of latent homosexuality yourself and you lash out against homosexuals as your own way of dealing with your own desires to engage in homosexual behavior. Instead of being a homophobe just go fellate a dude, you'll feel better in the end...the rear end...nooch!

Yes God does love homosexuals. But, you can disagree/hate the sin without a hatred for the individual. Because you forbid you child from something and have a punishment in store if they do said action does not make you hate them. Same with God and homosexuality, stealing, lying, etc. He hates the sin but loves the individual.

As far as selecting which passages I believe or whatnot. Well you have to look at the context under which a passage was written. The jewish people were in the old testament under a theocracy(until the time of saul and david) and God had certain laws that applied only to the jews(ie circumcision). In the age of grace(the new testament after Christ died) the law was thrown out for the jewish people as a prerequisite for salvation, since it was now faith based rather than works. Also IIRC homosexuality was banned in the new testament, even if not it falls under premarital sex/ lasciviousness. God bans premarital sex, and marriage in the Bible is only between a man and woman. After marriage God gives his okay for sex, this is also why many Christians are big on abstinence.

I don't have a fear of gays, I hear the "your secretly afraid your gay so you hate gays" thing all the time. It seems like such a throwaway argument. Do I hate communism because I have some innate fear that I'm secretly communist? No. Likewise my dislike of homosexuality(not the gays themselves) stems from a logic derived from my beliefs. You might claim (and legitimately so) that the logic is faulty(in your eyes) but that doesn't make me a homophobe.

Your hatred of homosexuality makes you a homophobe, all we're trying to do is get to the root of your hatred. Honestly, hatred for anything is not a healthy emotion. The worst thing that man can do is hate his fellow man, no matter what the reason. I don't care for terrorists, but I don't hate them. I don't agree with Christians, but I don't hate them. Hell, I think you're a pigheaded, ignorant bigot, but I don't hate you. You're misguided, that's for sure, but you're still a person and deserve my compassion.

I still think you cherry pick the bible for your own purposes. How about Mark 10:11-12 "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her; and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery." Are divorcees all going to hell? Jesus said so in the Gospel of Mark.

Or maybe James 4:17 "Those who know the good they ought to do and do not do it, sin." According to the words of Jesus in this book we're all going to hell since we don't do good, though we know we should. I do good deeds, but I know I could do more, and in knowing that I am sinning, thus I'm going to hell. Damn, Jesus was a strict mamajama wasn't he?

All I'm saying is you have to stop selectively choosing what is and is not relevant today. Either it's all relevant or none of it is relevant. So, which is it? Are 50% of western adults doomed to an eternity in hell for for getting a divorce? Are nearly all of us doomed for not doing the good we know we could do? Or, maybe we'll all be fine since we're good people in our hearts.

Well, at least I'm a good person in my heart. You're a hate-monger and a hypocrite and will most likely burn in hell. Luckily, hell is a figment of your imagination...so, you'll be fine.

 

[sneakypenguin]

Your hatred of homosexuality makes you a homophobe, all we're trying to do is get to the root of your hatred. Honestly, hatred for anything is not a healthy emotion. The worst thing that man can do is hate his fellow man, no matter what the reason. I don't care for terrorists, but I don't hate them. I don't agree with Christians, but I don't hate them. Hell, I think you're a pigheaded, ignorant bigot, but I don't hate you. You're misguided, that's for sure, but you're still a person and deserve my compassion.

I still think you cherry pick the bible for your own purposes. How about Mark 10:11-12 "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her; and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery." Are divorcees all going to hell? Jesus said so in the Gospel of Mark.

Or maybe James 4:17 "Those who know the good they ought to do and do not do it, sin." According to the words of Jesus in this book we're all going to hell since we don't do good, though we know we should. I do good deeds, but I know I could do more, and in knowing that I am sinning, thus I'm going to hell. Damn, Jesus was a strict mamajama wasn't he?

All I'm saying is you have to stop selectively choosing what is and is not relevant today. Either it's all relevant or none of it is relevant. So, which is it? Are 50% of western adults doomed to an eternity in hell for for getting a divorce? Are nearly all of us doomed for not doing the good we know we could do? Or, maybe we'll all be fine since we're good people in our hearts.

Well, at least I'm a good person in my heart. You're a hate-monger and a hypocrite and will most likely burn in hell. Luckily, hell is a figment of your imagination...so, you'll be fine.

Christianity is a faith based belief not works, God knows we sin, thats the reason for the cross(to be an atonement for our shortfallings) So you can sin and still go to heaven, as long as you have placed your faith in Christ (sorry to preach but just saying it's not works based) So no if you divorce your not going to hell, its the non acceptance of Christ that sends you to hell. So your right in saying those two things you picked out are sin but misinformed as to what sends people to hell. We all sin and as such all deserve hell but we live under grace and as such have a way out of hell.

As for your first paragraph I should reiterate that I don't hate gays, I just disagree with their lifestyle. If you feel that makes me a bigoted homophoic person so be it, nothing I say could change your mind on that.

Lol I dont' think i've worded this clearly.

 

[Lordbolt118]

As a gay person myself, I would honestly like to see a bit more representation in the media. I feel that including something small, like changing a story from 'Bob was cheating on his wife' to 'Bob was cheating on his husband' or whatever could make a difference. I figure it would have to be something subtle like that, but it could serve to encourage homosexuality as being seen as more of a normal thing, than as some esoteric characteristic which automatically causes a high pitched voice and love of the colour pink!

 

[cathou]

Yes God does love homosexuals. But, you can disagree/hate the sin without a hatred for the individual. Because you forbid you child from something and have a punishment in store if they do said action does not make you hate them. Same with God and homosexuality, stealing, lying, etc. He hates the sin but loves the individual

God sake that i hate this shitty argument. God love the sinner but hate the sin. Excuse me, but that something religious people come up with to be able to forget that they are talking about humans when they condemn homosexuality. God love the sinner but hate the sin. Have you though about it for 2 minutes ? That's mean that God love me, but dont like the way i live. A sinner must redeem and have the desire to change and not sin again to be saved (according to catholics, but i'm pretty sure it's the same in most religions) because if you steal, and redeem yourself, god want to to not steal again, but homosexuality is something that you live at every moment of your life. Then they say, not it's not the fact that you are homosexual, it's each time youact homosexual, like having sex, kiss, holding hands etc... so i must either pretend i love a guy and marry him, or live my entire life alone because if i fall in love with another girl, and that i want to do the basic couple relationship, i willingly sin again. So i ended up homosexual for a reason that i do not understand, but god love me. and to show me his love he asked me to suffer of lonelyness for my entire life. So that way i will enjoy a thrilling afterlife by his side. In the real world that's comportement is called being sadistic.

 

[Sparrow]

This reminds me of the very gay man from GTA 4 what was his name Darko?

Florian Cravic, or as he prefers to be called now, Bernie.

 

[LockHeart]

Am I the only one who finds Torchwood and all of its characters completely unlikeable?

probably. here in england it's a crime to speak against doctor who or any spin off show they produce.
punishable by being publicly proved wrong :hawhawhaw:

Don't get me wrong, I love Dr Who, but I just find

rat boy, pig girl, immensely unlikeable asian girl and Captain Jack

immensely irritating.

Dr Who is awesome though

 

[Evertw]

This reminds me of the very gay man from GTA 4 what was his name Darko?

Wasn't it French Tom, or Florian/Bernie?

 

[Strong Intelligent]

Homosexuality is generally, to do with genetics.

Basically, if a Male gets too little testostrone, the brain gets confused and thinks of the body as a Woman. This is why they begin doing stereotypically feminine things, leading to the Gay stereotype.

Now, I'm not gay, and I don't know any Gay people, but I do support Gay rights, marraige, and the works. The media take the prime examples of things they know, and blow it out of proportion.

And the reason the games industry doesn't do this, is because they think everybody follows the media.

 

[Strong Intelligent]

Am I the only one who finds Torchwood and all of its characters completely unlikeable?

probably. here in england it's a crime to speak against doctor who or any spin off show they produce.
punishable by being publicly proved wrong :hawhawhaw:

Unless it's Sarah Jane Adventures.

While I'm on the topic: I believe Sarah Jane was a closet lesbian.

 

[Retoru]

Christianity is a faith based belief not works, God knows we sin, thats the reason for the cross(to be an atonement for our shortfallings) So you can sin and still go to heaven, as long as you have placed your faith in Christ (sorry to preach but just saying it's not works based) So no if you divorce your not going to hell, its the non acceptance of Christ that sends you to hell. So your right in saying those two things you picked out are sin but misinformed as to what sends people to hell. We all sin and as such all deserve hell but we live under grace and as such have a way out of hell.

Ah, finally we get to the meat and bones of the argument. I love this line of reasoning and I'm so glad you brought it up. Now you've allowed me to say that under your own beliefs I can go out and kill people, mutilate their corpses, rape them anally before they die(and again after they die), etc, etc...but, as long as I accept Jesus as my personal savior afterward and get "saved" that I'll be able to go to heaven.

But, if I'm a gay man and I engage in consensual sex with my partner and remain monogamous and faithful I'll still burn in hell for all eternity because I was an abomination. Or, can I get a "get outta jail free" card if I accept Jesus and become "saved" at the moment before my death?

See how this works? The more you attempt to justify your bigotry the more I'm able to use your own words to prove you're ignorant and a hypocrite.

 

[Ultimathul]

You know what? if we stop alienating gay people it would be more widely accepted. but now its only weird gay people you see on tv. whose behaviour is so over the top "Gay" that my brain wants to be ejected through the back of my head. My personal opinion on gay people: Its just not natural to me. there you have it gentlemen.