Homosexuality Is Unnatural

[Grouchy Imp_v1legacy]

And don't be too hard on your gran, she's just the product of a different generation. Modern society is more liberal than the fairly rigid social structures of yesteryear.

Oh I'm not hard on her. I find her opinions on certain things horrendously outdated and repugnant, but she's done great by me.

That's grans for ya. They treat you like their own kid and then will randomly come out with a comment that makes you spray whatever you were drinking all over the room! Gotta love 'em.

My view: Sexuality is like religion (bear with me here people). Everyone has one, no-one has the right to force theirs on other people, and what someone's is is no damn business of anyone else.

A few objections; not everyone has a religion and you are not born into one. In terms of analogy, sexuality is closer to race.

I'd perhaps argue that not believing in established religion is still a religious decision. However you are right in that religion is something that can be chosen rather than something you're born with. You can be born into a religion, however. Certain religions have rites associated with new-borns which can impact that person's life even if they as an adult choose a different path.

 

[Snowy Rainbow]

My view? If both people are of legal age, it doesn't matter who you find sexually attractive and have sexual relations with. I hope that the majority comes to accept this in the future. I view fundamentalist Abrahamic religions to be an obstacle in this path. But I have no problem with the Abrahamic religions as long as they don't try to impose their views on the majority. And that is my 2 cents on the matter.

I agree with you 100% on that. I've also been a long-term "advocate" for lack of a better term, of incest. I don't want to be in an incestuous relationship, but I see no reason for it to be illegal.

Why are we (humans) fighting love? Lol.

 

[Simon Pettersson]

I actually saw a good documentary yesterday.

It was about what made you homosexual.
They come to the conclussion that homosexuality is biological and not psychological.
I´m gonna try to find the name of the documentary.

In my opinion I don´t think that any sexual preference is wrong, I am bisexual don´t know how that fits in thou, they didn´t mention it in the documentary (maybe in the beginning didn´t all of it), so I can see how other people can be drawn to the same sex.

 

[viranimus]

*snip*

Because it's the simplest and most obvious example and sometimes the simplest arguments are the best as even the most simple of people can understand and there's no room for twisting it? Just sayin'.

I disagree there. How hard is it for someone to twist , "Animals are gay, so gay is natural" into, "Animals also eat and play with their own shit. They lack the same levels of intelligence we do. So why do you think were no better than animals?".

The simplest fact is that all existence is subjective, So using glib analogies like that is not likely going to act as any sort of defense.

 

[Baradiel]

SNIP

As soon as I saw this on the Recent Posts bar, I knew it was either a hilariously bigoted eejit, or Snowy Rainbow, Master of Controversial Titles!

So, anyway, Homosexuality is not unnatural. Any sexuality is not unnatural. I usually consider the word "natural" to be similar in definition to "normal". While "Normal" is generally defined by the majority, though, "natural" is more looseweave.

I realise that made practically no sense. Basically, "normal" and "natural" are not predefined. Anyone who says otherwise is either ignorant, a relic of a bygone age (apologies to your Nan, but she is) or is trolling.

Now, I'm off to have sweet homosexual love to my mixed race transgender friend!

Joking! [sub]I wish...[/sub]

 

[Mangod]

The "best" argument I've heard against homosexuality being "unnatural" is that it doesn't serve to propagate the species. Just throwing that in there.

 

[Friendshipandmagic]

Homosexuality exists in nature. Its has existed in humans for as long as we have been a species.

Most advanced civilizations embraced same sex relationships in some way. This whole "homosexuality is bad" crap is a fairly new thing. Thank the church for that ignorance.

The "best" argument I've heard against homosexuality being "unnatural" is that it doesn't serve to propagate the species. Just throwing that in there.

The current theory is that homosexual traits expressing themselves in straight men make them more attractive to women. Thats why girls like pretty guys. So it continues to appear in humans because it does help propagate the species.

Even if that wasn't the case, most relationships aren't started only to have children.

 

[megaraccoon]

im gay and my take on it is this: homosexuallity is unnatural as any race of homosexuals would die out after one generation, however, humanity has evolved to a point were we are able to be homosexuall (its not a choice) openly also what i do in my bedroom is not anyone elses buisness bar my own.

 

[crop52]

Doesn't homosexuality only exists because of genetic mutations? To reproduce, you need a male and a female, so I'd have to assume that homosexuals have to have something to do with genetic mutations.

Of course, I don't have any say on whether or not genetic mutation is natural, nor have I put any thought into it.

 

[Ishadus]

My grandfather's pretty racist towards French people in my province, but he's also over 80 and was raised quite differently than I. Unfortunate reality is no amount of logic will change the way of mind of someone who has accepted something as truth for decades upon decades. If a bunch of evidence was suddenly presented that the world was actually flat and all of our observations to the contrary explained and defeated, it would still take a very very long time for people to believe it.

On the topic of sexuality, it's all just neurochemistry. I'm fascinated what will happen many many years down the line when we can explain every nuance of our brain; I'm sure some chucklehead will develop a "cure" for homosexuality. Biologically, we all have traits brought about through a mixture of genetic and environmental factors. What's perceived as "normal" are the traits that the majority of the population present. There's nothing necessarily incorrect in that, but what I do take issue with are the short sighted people who will then define what's "abnormal" as the same as "wrong." And yet these same people will declare that the Nazis were evil and wrong in every sense, not seeing the irony in their statements.

And B.S. that animals aren't gay. My chinchilla will have sex with anything that moves or has a fluffy fabric. Had two males in the same cage once, it was a homo-erotic rodent party.

 

[Snowy Rainbow]

That's grans for ya. They treat you like their own kid and then will randomly come out with a comment that makes you spray whatever you were drinking all over the room! Gotta love 'em.

Lol. Pretty much sums up my relationship with her.

My mum on the other hand is amazing. No joke, this was her (more or less) exact repose to my "I might like girls and boys" talk:

"Cool. What do you want for dinner?"

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

My view? If both people are of legal age, it doesn't matter who you find sexually attractive and have sexual relations with. I hope that the majority comes to accept this in the future. I view fundamentalist Abrahamic religions to be an obstacle in this path. But I have no problem with the Abrahamic religions as long as they don't try to impose their views on the majority. And that is my 2 cents on the matter.

I agree with you 100% on that. I've also been a long-term "advocate" for lack of a better term, of incest. I don't want to be in an incestuous relationship, but I see no reason for it to be illegal.

Why are we (humans) fighting love? Lol.

I agree. If family members want to have sex, what is wrong with that? They aren't harming anyone. What they do in the bedroom is their business.

 

[Baradiel]

My view? If both people are of legal age, it doesn't matter who you find sexually attractive and have sexual relations with. I hope that the majority comes to accept this in the future. I view fundamentalist Abrahamic religions to be an obstacle in this path. But I have no problem with the Abrahamic religions as long as they don't try to impose their views on the majority. And that is my 2 cents on the matter.

I agree with you 100% on that. I've also been a long-term "advocate" for lack of a better term, of incest. I don't want to be in an incestuous relationship, but I see no reason for it to be illegal.

Why are we (humans) fighting love? Lol.

I can sortof understand laws against incest though. Too small a genepool and accidents start happening. Sure, they only start appearing after three or four generations, but thats why the laws are there.

Except for the aristocracy. They're allowed to be incestuous.

 

[Booze Zombie]

If homosexuality was unnatural, it wouldn't occur. This is my argument against this rather stupid statement.

 

[Valksy]

Your grandmother is a product of her time. That doesn't mean she is right, it is just what she knows. My grandma is much the same but I know that in her life time homosexuality was decriminalised and she has never bothered nor felt invested in re-assessing what she thinks she knows.

My sexuality is not a subject of discussion. And her view amuses me because she inherited a great deal of money from her Uncle, who in turn was left it by his long term boyfriend. So she can talk about hating gays, while happily living on their money. Try and argue that, and apparently they were not in a relationship, the older gay man simply "adopted" her Uncle. Despite the fact that he was well in to his 20s....

Frankly, I don't bother wasting my breath.

In terms of natural. Yes. My sexual orientation is innate. Because I am a sentient and thoughtful creature, I am not driven to try and screw every woman I like the look of. Animals don't have the same social rules. I suppose that the difference is between a natural sex drive, and what you do with it that makes the difference between humans and animals. Of course, the people who try and play the game about us not doing what animals do are beyond listening to logic and common sense and again, not worth wasting your breath on.

In terms of procreation? Well, here is the thing. Even if we did not live in a world full of technology, gay men and women still have the same bits. And here is the thing that people who are not GLBTQ tend not to understand - it isn't the sex act that makes us who we are. I was a lesbian before I ever had sex and I will still be one if I never had sex again (horrible thought). For those lesbians who have an instinct to procreate (and many do) they would still be lesbians even after they had sex to conceive because one act, or two, or ten, doesn't really matter. It is what is in your head, how you feel, how you relate to your own gender, more than what you do with your fun bits.

 

[Snowy Rainbow]

Now, I'm off to have sweet homosexual love to my mixed race transgender friend!

Joking! [sub]I wish...[/sub]

Transgirls are pretty. Who can blame ya!

As soon as I saw this on the Recent Posts bar, I knew it was either a hilariously bigoted eejit, or Snowy Rainbow, Master of Controversial Titles!

Lol. I am so adopting that title as my official middle name.

The "best" argument I've heard against homosexuality being "unnatural" is that it doesn't serve to propagate the species. Just throwing that in there.

In the same way you could say women are unnatural, because they can't reproduce. So are men.

Sure, it's a bit of a strawman, but why would we (humans) want to judge what's okay for two loving people to do based on how many babies they can make? Madness!

(Not aimed at you. Aimed at the argument.)

My chinchilla will have sex with anything that moves or has a fluffy fabric. Had two males in the same cage once, it was a homo-erotic rodent party.

Bahahahahahahaha. Best line ever posted.

 

[ultrachicken]

Does your grandma wear glasses? If so, point out that those are unnatural. You're unlikely to change her mind, but it would at least be fun.

Anyways, as you stated, there's nothing to suggest that homosexuality is unnatural.

 

[direkiller]

I'm sure we've all heard that statement before, be it in a debate of sexual morality, a legal discussion of marriage and what defines a couple, or a religious quarrel - the opinion that homosexuality is unnatural gets around. But have you ever stopped to really think about it?

My grandmother and I got into a bit off a debate today on just this topic. She's always assumed I was heterosexual (though in reality I'm more bisexual/pansexual) so the revelation that I have a fair bit of a crush on a guy I've met on this site was something of a shock to her. She's very... wrong. To her, anyone that isn't white, middle class and heterosexual is open game to insult. In her world, "darks", as she puts it, are responsible for most crime, poor people are all useless and sexism exists to keep men and women in the roles they were made to exist in. Yeaahh... So when she asked me if I was seeing anyone, "Well, I actually have something of a crush on this awesome guy I met online" probably wasn't the response she wanted. Needless to say, she started in with how wrong it was for me to say that and how homosexuality was disgusting. I kept my cool and defended my sexuality with a level headed vocabulary, but to no avail. The argument itself is not really relevant, so I'll skip to the point.

"Gays are unnatural."​

I didn't think much of it at the time -- brushing it off as more of her hateful lies -- but looking back on it tonight, I must wonder... Says who? And how? Why? Are bisexuals, homosexuals, nonsexuals, pansexuals and whatever else somehow supernatural? Aliens? The usual support one offers up for the unnatural argument is something along the lines of "animals aren't gay". We'll forget for a moment that humans are animals and take them on their point. Animals can be, are, and will continue to be gay. There have been many documented cases of homosexual pairings between wild animals. The notion that it doesn't happen is simply not true. Gay wildlife is indeed very rare, but it happens and it's perfectly natural.

The other argument is that it's a choice and, aside from the stupidity of that notion, would't that make it natural? If someone's brain compels them to be homosexual, despite you not seeing it as normal, wouldn't that be natural? Or are their brains influenced by aliens too? Lol.

I dunno. I just wanted to get that off my chest.

What do ya'll think?

Its a bit confusing where the argument Gays are unnatural comes from but here is the basic rundown.

Paul when he became the first pope layed down a few moral laws one of which was "Natural law" stating all sex acts must have a chance of producing a child. Over the passed 2000 years it has goten turned into people thinking it is about nature itself(in wich case there are about 3500 animals out there with homosexual relationships)
so in the end it basically comes down to them often no knowing the argument there using

 

[Nocta-Aeterna]

I'd like to point out that homosexuality is pretty common among dolphins and bonobo apes, amongst others. It might differ from the societal norm, but unnatural this is not. Personally, I'd encourage LGBT people to live the way they want.

-"If everyone was gay, the human race would die. Homosexuality is unnatural."

"If everyone was female the human race would die. Women are unnatural."

Genius!

Same goes for men.

In addition, even if everyone was gay/lesbian, I'd doubt we were stupid enough not to procreate. Even gay/lesbian couples (can) have a child wish and there exists something like sperm donors in this world, unless that too is somehow "unnatural".

 

[Grouchy Imp_v1legacy]

Natural - Adjective: Existing in or caused by nature; not made or caused by humankind.

Homosexuality occurs in animals, thus nature.* http://www.cambridge.org/gb/knowledge/isbn/item5706975/?site_locale=en_GB

Ergo, homosexuality is natural.

End of argument.

EDIT: Missquote. :/


* I know this is somewhat under debate. Mainly conservative and religious sects disagree the most (Obvious, much?). Though all the evidence points to it existing. Infact, my two female gerbils mount each other all the time. Not sure why they think they're dudes, but the point still stands.

Natural and un-natural are kinda redundant arguements in today's society. It's un-natural for humans to travel at 35,000 feet at a speed of 500 MPH but that doesn't stop people flying.