Homosexuality Is Unnatural

[Blow_Pop]

My view? If both people are of legal age, it doesn't matter who you find sexually attractive and have sexual relations with. I hope that the majority comes to accept this in the future. I view fundamentalist Abrahamic religions to be an obstacle in this path. But I have no problem with the Abrahamic religions as long as they don't try to impose their views on the majority. And that is my 2 cents on the matter.

I agree with you 100% on that. I've also been a long-term "advocate" for lack of a better term, of incest. I don't want to be in an incestuous relationship, but I see no reason for it to be illegal.

Why are we (humans) fighting love? Lol.

Why do we fight it? Because so many people(and religions) believe so strongly in procreation that they can't accept anything that won't lead to procreation. And some people were raised with very strict older ideas on the world. That is my .02. Also, my two female dogs try and hump each other constantly. Ergo it is natural. In my own opinion that is. And why in a world of so many "fake" women do we care so much if something is natural or not when most women aren't? Look at how many women have breast implants, collagen implants etc....just for cosmetic reasons (so not dissin women with breast cancer who lose one of their boobs and get an implant because of that. Neighbor of mine had to do that). I see it as people want a reason to argue. People want a reason to shove THEIR ideals down everyone else's throat and I don't believe anyone has a right to do so.

 

[Halceon]

I can't remember where I read it but there was a theory that homosexuality was an evolution development to help control population growth in some species. The logic being that a small mutation that alters sexual preference helps reduce (i) violent competition for mates in situations with a large male population and (ii) unsustainable population growth in times of hardship.

I've heard that idea. It's an interesting one, but doesn't, I don't think, work well with my theory of evolution.

. From a biological standpoint male and female come together to make a child.

Also from a biological standpoint the borders between male and female are pretty wonky.

Since gender depends to a huge extent upon hormones during pregnancy, there are documented cases of XX males and XY females. So here's a brain teaser - suppose we have a couple of XY people, one of which appears to be a woman, and a couple of apparent males, one of which has XX chromosomes. Which of these couples is homosexual?

You'll have to explain this to me. I don't understand how a baby with two X's is male, or vice versa. Do you mean mentally? Like gender? In that case I agree. Transgender people are the gender their brain tells them they are. Sex is just a byproduct of hormones during formative pregnancy.

I'll just give you this linky here - http://www.ted.com/talks/alice_dreger_is_anatomy_destiny.html

 

[Griffolion]

It's a sickening irony that the only victims of homosexuality are the people who are shunned, alienated, disowned, beaten, spat on, tortured and murdered for who they are.

Indeed it is. Most of the time this happens, they are either playing to their own damn irrationality and fear or an irrationality stemmed from a culturally irrelevance textbook written from an incredibly homophobic ancient society.

 

[Snowy Rainbow]

Why do we fight it? Because so many people(and religions) believe so strongly in procreation that they can't accept anything that won't lead to procreation. And some people were raised with very strict older ideas on the world. That is my .02. Also, my two female dogs try and hump each other constantly. Ergo it is natural. In my own opinion that is. And why in a world of so many "fake" women do we care so much if something is natural or not when most women aren't? Look at how many women have breast implants, collagen implants etc....just for cosmetic reasons (so not dissin women with breast cancer who lose one of their boobs and get an implant because of that. Neighbor of mine had to do that). I see it as people want a reason to argue. People want a reason to shove THEIR ideals down everyone else's throat and I don't believe anyone has a right to do so.

Too true. Before we start telling loving adults who they can and cannot love, let's get rid of make up, flashy clothes, spray on tans, muscle men shows and wigs.

[sup]Not that I think any of that needs to go -- to each their own -- just agreeing with your point about what is "natural".[/sup]

I'll just give you this linky here - http://www.ted.com/talks/alice_dreger_is_anatomy_destiny.html

Am watching it now! Looks promising so far.

 

[Zeema]

I don't really mind Gender i care more about Personality and i rekon that should be the most important

if you like someone date them doesn't matter then gender

i

 

[XHolySmokesX]

Gay wildlife is indeed very rare, but it happens and it's perfectly natural.

It's not actually that rare, in fact it's wuite common. There are some lizards that have evolved to be lesbian, enabling females to mate and produce young from lesbian sex.
Also most sea creatures have elolved hermaphrodite body shapes, sea slugs mate by jousting with their 2 penises untill one strikes the other and impregnates them.
Also bonobo monkeys frequently enjoy lesbian sex or penis fencing, and not only do they not do it for mating reasons, but they are primates just like us.

saying homosexuality is unnatural is stupid and ignorant, yet for some reason, unlike the theory of evolution, the fact that homosexuality is natural is not accepted thoughout the world as fact. That doesn't make any sense to me really =S.

 

[hiks89]

Unnatural no.

Your just encountering a previous generation that was not as accepting as homosexuals.

As for the gay animal claim, I never could understand that. I can understand the potential for humans to be gay because well, we have sentience. Complex thoughts can allow us to consider adverse and strange possibilities. But why the hell would anyone point to animals being gay as a positive example. When it happens its not as if its some sort of mutual love and appreciation and typically has more in common with prison rape.

So why exactly would anyone want to point to animals as their saving grace when there are plenty of other opinions that could be made seems really, well dumb. About as dumb as the religious claiming that god loves all his children, but its against Gods will and thus abomination. The same goes for advocates claiming any religious/moral argument is inherently wrong.


Anyway... pointing out animals as a justification doesnt work because animals do stupid shit. There are plenty of other ways of justifying it, so why not use one of them?

Edit: I guess I didnt learn my lesson last time.

animals are sentient too...please don't make me say this another 500 times on a thread

 

[katboii]

Ducks are bisexual, just saying.

but my view on it (being bisexual) I heard somewhere that there is a difference in the brain of homosexuals and the likes, doubt that it affects people in other ways then who turns them on.

 

[Grouchy Imp_v1legacy]

I don't think it's redundant at all. I totally agree that there are a lot of things that the human race does is unnatural. My argument was against the statement. By definition of the word natural (existing in nature), homosexuality falls under that banner. That's all I was saying.

Spoiler: Heavy, heavy sarcasm

You just don't get it do you? What happens in nature doesn't define what's natural, what was written down thousands of years ago in a source about as credible as an ancient Wikipedia defines what is and what is not natural! And the most natural thing in the world is to be told how you can and can't have sex by some bloke in Rome who's never had sex.

And to be more serious for a moment, whilst I hear what you're saying, the whole 'if it happens in nature then fine' position is a little bit off. I don't think Jeffry Dahmer would have gotten very far with the defense "What? It's natural!".

And yes, I'm aware that even though I said "to be more serious" that was still pretty flippant.

 

[Snowy Rainbow]

I don't really mind Gender i care more about Personality and i rekon that should be the most important

if you like someone date them doesn't matter then gender

i

I've always said: "you date a person, not their gender."

-

This video is fascinating! I'm very open to gender and sex (being pansexual, I think) but I didn't even know stuff like this.

 

[Blow_Pop]

Why do we fight it? Because so many people(and religions) believe so strongly in procreation that they can't accept anything that won't lead to procreation. And some people were raised with very strict older ideas on the world. That is my .02. Also, my two female dogs try and hump each other constantly. Ergo it is natural. In my own opinion that is. And why in a world of so many "fake" women do we care so much if something is natural or not when most women aren't? Look at how many women have breast implants, collagen implants etc....just for cosmetic reasons (so not dissin women with breast cancer who lose one of their boobs and get an implant because of that. Neighbor of mine had to do that). I see it as people want a reason to argue. People want a reason to shove THEIR ideals down everyone else's throat and I don't believe anyone has a right to do so.

Too true. Before we start telling loving adults who they can and cannot love, let's get rid of make up, flashy clothes, spray on tans, muscle men shows and wigs.

[sup]Not that I think any of that needs to go -- to each their own -- just agreeing with your point about what is "natural".[/sup]

I personally think women and men alike need to accept who they are and stop trying to look so unnatural but that is an entirely different topic alike.

 

[JokerCrowe]

Actually I don't know if it's been said yet, but gay animal sex isn't as rare as you think. approximatley 90% of giraffe sex is male giraffes having sex with male giraffes.

 

[lettucethesallad]

Technically anything that exists in nature is natural, so if you're sick of trying to argue with ignorant people on logic, go for the semantics.

 

[Wuggy]

Whether or not homosexuality is natural or unnatural is irrelevant. Atleast when talking about whether it's "moral" or not.

Let me explain:
For the sake of argument, let's say she's right and homosexuality is unnatural (which it's fucking not). How does that determine it's morality? You can counter her "homosexuality is unnatural" with:

"So if unnaturality of homosexuality makes it wrong. Does that mean that all things natural are not wrong?"

If answer is YES
"Murder and rape are both natural occurances. They are rather common in the animal kingdom. Going by your logic, you are saying murder and rape are acceptable actions."

If answer is NO (Or if she argues that "Well, maybe not everything natural is moral")
"If your argument is "Homosexuality is unnatural and therefore wrong" but yet you don't think everything natural is right and everything unnatural is wrong. You are basing your argument to practically nothing."

This is the basic way to present the fact that whether or not something is natural has nothing to do with it's morality. Both moral and immoral things are natural, both moral and immoral things are unnatural. Nature is the wrong source to derive your ethics from.

 

[SinisterGehe]

You know monogamy is also unnatural. Granted there are few species that are practice monogamy, but there is also hundreds of species that have gay individuals in them, also homophobia is unnatural, humans are the only species that have this. Also sexual pleasure is unnatural, animals don't feel pleasure from sex, it is just an mechanical reaction that is written in to their DNA.

Humans are humans, LIVE WITH IT! You are not perfect no matter if you are straight/gay/bi/religious/atheist/black/white/or any variation of human behavior there is.

>You grandmother is the figure of her era, she was raised that way. She believes that the morals and views that she grew up with are the right ones. It is normal.

 

[Kayos]

To me it doesn't matter if a person is homosexual or not.
what people do in their bedroom is up to them.
I dont have any problem with it, unless another dude makes a move on me lol.
Without lesbians, i wouldnt have something to masterbate to every night before i go to sleep.

Jokes aside, I'm pretty A-sexual (i think thats the right term for someone that doesnt do sex / relationship type stuff) and i dont follow any religion that would make me shun gays.
At the end of the day, what you feel is correct is how you feel about stuff, not what others think about it.

 

[Jonabob87]

Homosexuality exists in nature. Its has existed in humans for as long as we have been a species.

Most advanced civilizations embraced same sex relationships in some way. This whole "homosexuality is bad" crap is a fairly new thing. Thank the church for that ignorance.

The "best" argument I've heard against homosexuality being "unnatural" is that it doesn't serve to propagate the species. Just throwing that in there.

The current theory is that homosexual traits expressing themselves in straight men make them more attractive to women. Thats why girls like pretty guys. So it continues to appear in humans because it does help propagate the species.

Even if that wasn't the case, most relationships aren't started only to have children.

I'm sorry but the "homosexuality is bad" "crap" has been around for millenia, it's not new.

 

[Rblade]

I think you'll feel anything you didn't grew up with as 'unnatural'

I grew up in a small town 95%+ white people

that was the fist at least 12 years of my life. Rarely any minorities. Very little clear homosexuality. So from what I grew up I always feel a lingering unease about minorities be it racial or sexual. My small town grown intinct says me there is something off and strange about them.

HOWEVER, I consider it a distinct human trait that I can rationally choose to ignore those gut feelings, think about it and say: 'no, these people are absolutely normal, your just not very used to it.' And proceed to treat these people as I would treat anybody else.

You can't help your most basic emotions, so don't blame older people (that grew up in a world where minorities where new) for not understanding and trying to ward off the foreign invaders to their world. But you most certainly don't have to live by these emotions. You can choose to ignore them and come to an opinion about the world around you based on reasoning

 

[Tharwen]

It is.

However, so are carrots, and carrots are fantastic.

 

[Snowy Rainbow]

Nature is the wrong source to derive your ethics from.

I fully agree with your words, but that last sentence can be tricky. It's a strawman in way, but one could argue that our morality (that homosexuality is A-Okay) is part of nature as it is who we are and how we feel. So, in some ways, nature is a good source of morality. It just depends who you ask XP

Sorry. I just felt like that should be pointed out.