Homosexuality: Nature or Nurture?

[Boris Goodenough]

Considering you're 500% more likely to be homosexual if anyone in your family is homosexual, I'd say mostly nature.

Really? What's that based on? My understanding was that adopted children of gay couples had no increased chance of being homosexual link.

By family I mean genetically. And it was the Atheist Experience quite some months ago.

Nature, they tested this with monkeys. Homosexuality is literaly a genetic counter measure against overpopulation.

How come families with homosexuals in them have more children on average than "normal" families?

 

[Kapol]

From what I learned in my Psych class, Homosexuality is based off genetics mainly. He actually said very clearly that it's not really contested in the psychiatric world. It's more just an accepted fact. Of course, it's up to each person to choose if they go with the feelings their bodies give them, and that does work both ways. Straight people can force themselves to be homosexual just like homosexual people can force themselves to be straight. But, it really boils down to genetics in terms of what gender your body is naturally attracted to.

So that means the gay gene(s) have been identified?
I believe that people in different circumstances will respond differently. 1 choice here and there can expose a person to different things, including sexuality.

I'm not quite sure on the details to be honest. I was really quoting from my Psych teacher. It was never really discussed more then that little bit in class. I also think you're right about reacting differently. But in the end, we can't really choose who our bodies lust after. So while different circumstances may dictate how we respond, I don't think that they'll decide how we feel in the first place.

 

[Dexiro]

I'm sorry what? Flamboyants just convinced themselves that they liked men are you saying?

No. What did I type wrong? They convinced themselves they were born that way is what I said, what those people say isn't proof despite their high standing in the gay community.

Bah, I might have to leave this argument here because I'm having trouble articulating an explanation. I do have a fairly clear viewpoint but I'm having trouble arguing it without feeling the need to write a huge essay every time you pull up a counter argument, and it's making my brain switch off a bit.

Hmm simply put I'm struggling to understand your viewpoint because what you're saying doesn't match anything I've witnessed in real life. Your theory makes sense at parts but it seems like a bit of a long-shot, and bits of it just don't seem consistent at all.

Your reluctance to talk about your personal experiences isn't helping much either ~

 

[theultimateend]

Nature, they tested this with monkeys. Homosexuality is literaly a genetic counter measure against overpopulation.

But that conflicts with my conservative views about how the world works .

I don't like things that don't conform with how I think things work.

*wags finger*

 

[smegmar]

some more points I'd like to interject. From my point of view I've never seen the curvature of the earth, and nor has anyone I know. Does that mean that the world is flat...? sometimes perception can be misleading and we need more understanding of something we cannot experience in day to day life.


I want to quote Sleek giant but the quote button is acting up for me...

"Also if you hang around tall people, you will become tall yourself.

OT: Its nature, you don't make gay, its part of a persons mind when they are born."

Some people have tall genetics, they got it from their parents or immediate family which is clearly visible. Other then that a good diet and correct posture and other NURTURE factors have a huge role.

But height is a physical feature, which is completely different for an attraction with is purely mental. If a person can be attracted, Sexually or otherwise, to specific targets by genes where does it stop.

Do I like pasta because of my genes? What about the simpsons, Do I find that sort of humor funny because of genes?? and sexually do you say all pedophiles, zoophiles and acrotomophilies are caused by genetics??

it's just ridiculous.

 

[KingKamor]

I took a Human Sexuality class in college and we watched a very sobering and to-the-point documentary. It was about the baby son of a nice family getting his penis burned off in circumcision surgery(don't ask how) only a few months after he was born. The solution to their problem came in the form of a psychologist, whom the mother had seen on TV. So they basically gave the baby a sex change operation and raised as a girl instead of a boy. Jump forward twelve lovingly girlish years later or so, and "she" starts exhibiting severe depression, confusion, and rebellion. She dressed as a boy, cut her hair, and did boy things. She didn't want to play with dolls anymore, she wanted to play sports.

It was only later that she found out that she was in fact a boy all along. This pissed her off more than anything else in the world ever could have. Later in her life, she had penis reconstruction surgery, took out the womanly parts, and lived as a man again. Due to all of the stress put on his mind and life from this change in sexuality, however, the depression did not go away, and the lost childhood did not come back.

TL;DR: Nurture has very little to do with the cards we're born with. You can try to paint over an Ace of Clubs and say it's an Ace of Hearts, but that won't change the original card underneath.

Not saying that nurture isn't important, but people of all sexualities are born that way because that is simply how their brains work, and no amount of "nurture" can change it.

 

[Boris Goodenough]

This is where boys and girls need good role models for their gender. To teach them Men are masculine and Women are feminine.

Gender is entirely a social construct. It has no genetic meaning, it was not programmed into people. WE, humans, invented it, and are bound by it. In short, it's all bullshit. The BEST way to raise children, as I've learned in many psychology and sociology classes, is gender neutral and androgynous. Let me explain. It means that Daddy isn't the only one who can mow a lawn and Mommy isn't the only one who can make a boo-boo feel better with a kiss. Daddy isn't the only one who can go out and earn money to support the family and Mommy isn't the only one who can run a vacuum.

This isn't to say that the creation of gender roles was a bad thing for it's time. Early men went out to hunt and early women stayed home to raise the babies because it was a jungle out there, and without claws and fangs humans were squishy. But that's just not necessary any more. Now that we're the top of the totem pole we should just let people do what they are best at and most comfortable doing, gender be damned. If my future five year old daughter wants to play with Tonka trucks and her brother likes dolls, then I'm fine with that. And screw pink nurseries for girls and blue for boys. This nonsense is man made and it's about time man unmade it.

How come the experiments in the 70's showed that unconditioned children still chose gender "specific" toys for the most part if they could freely choose?

 

[Matthew Kjonaas]

nature because if a straight person can not be turned on by a member of the same sex the a gay person can not be turned on by a member of the opposite sex.

 

[HobbyJim]

One's sexual orientation is always encoded in the genes. External factors just affect how much it is shown in the actions of the individual.

lovely explanation sir. or madam. your screen name isn't a clear giveaway. lol

 

[Filiecs]

I'd say that love is the biggest factor, although other factors can have an effect.

 

[Biosophilogical]

Nature mainly, but nurture plays a part- generally in how the person may 'accept' their sexuality.

Agreed. I think that sexuality is probably completely genetics, but nurture can play a role in how, or if, the person represses or expresses their feelings. Which does pose a ... I don't want to say problem, so I'll go with thingy-ma-what's-it. If someone is bisexual (reasonably so, not just a 2/6 on the Kinsey Scale), then is it possible that they would repress (unconsciously) their less preferred attraction, essentially convincing themselves that they are either straight or gay because that is their 'preferred preference'?

 

[fulano]

A mixture of both, most likely. But we'll have to wait for scientists in the field to fully explain what's up with the brain to be entirely sure of what's the full extent of the nature part.

 

[Dragonclaw]

Nature mainly, but nurture plays a part- generally in how the person may 'accept' their sexuality.

Agreed. I think that sexuality is probably completely genetics, but nurture can play a role in how, or if, the person represses or expresses their feelings. Which does pose a ... I don't want to say problem, so I'll go with thingy-ma-what's-it. If someone is bisexual (reasonably so, not just a 2/6 on the Kinsey Scale), then is it possible that they would repress (unconsciously) their less preferred attraction, essentially convincing themselves that they are either straight or gay because that is their 'preferred preference'?

Yeah, I see it as no different than a parent who tries to twist things on a child they "worry" is gay, making it harder for a child to be honest about who they are becoming one way or the other. Parents can really screw things up for their kids brains. My ex and I are still freinds and it's hard to watch her want a good relationship so badly, but those demons just make her sabbotage herself every time.

 

[smegmar]

Ok so everyone that's on the NATURE side must also agree that all human sexual attractions are genetic and absolutely no will, choice or environmental factors played a part in any of the following.....

Piquerism ---> Sexual gratification through penetration of another person, most commonly by stabbing or cutting the body with sharp objects.

Formicophilia ---> Being crawled on by insects

Apotemnophilia ---> Having an amputation

Telephone scatologia ---> Obscene phone calls, particularly to strangers; also known as telephonicophilia

Salirophilia ---> Soiling or dirtying others


and the list goes on and on......http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_paraphilias


Seriously all of these are caused by Genes?? the frock!! get all the genes out of me I don't want them then.

 

[Rex Fallout]

I know I know another sexuality thread, I dont know why But I find this "nature vs nurture" argument very interesting, not just in regard to gayness

So I guess the obvious question is: can your secual orientation be influenced by outside..um things, or are you just born that way?

personally I would lean towards the "nature" side of things, not saying that your upbringing cant have an effect but I mean you get people who come from traditional christain nuclear families who are gay, so how do you explain that?

First off I'm going to lean toward choice and nurture, (I know I'll be fire bombed) but I've always believed that we have a choice in just about everything we do, including sexuality. Maybe I just like to have that power? Anyways, I can easily explain the 'traditional christian nuclear families who are gay' with one simple word. Resentment. People don't like to be told what to do, they don't like to have their choices chosen for them and their lives decided for them. Its part of being an individual. You force Christianity on anyone and a lot of times they will reject it simply because you forced it on them. You can't force your will on anyone else, that's why Marxism fails.

Choice is the key word here. we choose everything whether we want to admit it or not we do. We choose who we are, whether it be that we conform to what our parents expect of us, or embrace the difference is our choice.

 

[Silvianoshei]

Why can't it be both? There isn't any known genetic basis for homosexuality, so I'd lean more towards nurture. The context of your bildungsroman seems to have a much statistically meaningful impact. Family structure, if you have a gay family member, if you come from a super religous family...these things increase or decrease your chances of being gay in a way that genetics has never been found to do.

If science proves me wrong, then I'll change my opinion. #NoPride

 

[intheweeds]

some more points I'd like to interject. From my point of view I've never seen the curvature of the earth, and nor has anyone I know. Does that mean that the world is flat...? sometimes perception can be misleading and we need more understanding of something we cannot experience in day to day life.


I want to quote Sleek giant but the quote button is acting up for me...

"Also if you hang around tall people, you will become tall yourself.

OT: Its nature, you don't make gay, its part of a persons mind when they are born."

Some people have tall genetics, they got it from their parents or immediate family which is clearly visible. Other then that a good diet and correct posture and other NURTURE factors have a huge role.

But height is a physical feature, which is completely different for an attraction with is purely mental. If a person can be attracted, Sexually or otherwise, to specific targets by genes where does it stop.

Do I like pasta because of my genes? What about the simpsons, Do I find that sort of humor funny because of genes?? and sexually do you say all pedophiles, zoophiles and acrotomophilies are caused by genetics??

it's just ridiculous.

Your physical height is no different from your 'mental'thought processes. Every thought you ever have ever is nothing more than brain chemistry. Chemistry is the science of matter. Matter is physical. Everything in your physical body is decided by your genes in one way or another. So yes, to answer your question on a very basic level, you like pasta because of your genes.

 

[Dexiro]

Eep delete this ~

 

[FiveSpeedf150]

Both for sure, the metric I use is Cher's Son/Daughter/Thing. Genetics may have had something to do with it, but you can't deny that mommy and his/her/it's childhood had some kind of effect.

 

[ParkourMcGhee]

2-5% nature, rest nurture.

Have you seen in sweden how they're using a word between "he" and "she" for every child?

Yeah, don't let's discriminate, and sexually confuse everyone in the process >.>