Honest question, why is camping frowned upon?

[Royta]

Posted this on GFAQS as well, but thought I might get a good discussion going here as well : )

So on with it:

I personally never have been more of a shooter guy, more of a fighting game player.
Over there, playing defensively, zoning the player out and waiting for him to make a mistake and making the enemy come to you and wait it out is basically accepted. Especially in the higher circles. It's considered a skill, knowing when to go in and when to lay back and defend.
Sure some low key players cry foul, but it's generally accepted.

Yet when it comes to shooters, playing defensively, defending one certain area and or waiting for people to make the same mistake over and over again because you have an advantageous position, is frowned upon and cussed at.

My question simply is, why? Is it a broken tactic in this genre? Is it the different mindset of the players? Does it work differently here, if so why? As I said, I'm far from a master or even a scrub in this genre. Im not into the scene at all and rarely play more then a few TDM's a week if not a month. So that's why I'm asking.

Thanks for the insights, if any. And may your bullets paint your wall red with the blood of your enemies!

 

[Soviet Steve]

I was about to go on a long tirade against my technophobe stepdad, oh well.

I assume it's people being horrified that they might have to put thought or teamwork into overcoming an obstacle.

 

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

Well. There are some really bad spots in certain maps. Especially when a player gets somewhere they shouldnt be able to. Plus it can hurt your team when an otherwise decent player stays back the whole match and gets like three kills.

 

[Rednog]

Camping is generally frowned upon because it usually put the camper at a tactical advantage that is rather hard to remove them from. This isn't just in shooters, in MOBA games you get tower humpers, rts games you get people who turtle...etc.
That and it can be extremely frustrating in some shooters, like in MW3 I see ok my team and the enemy team are skirmishing here, I'm going to try to flank around and catch them by surprise, I spend like a minute running around to the other side only to get mowed down by a guy who isn't helping his team mates, he is just sitting in a corner with a thumb up his ass staring down his scope waiting for a single person to come by every 5 minutes.

 

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

Also I might add there is a huge difference between camping an open area with a sniper or something and sitting next to a door or behind a corner with a shotgun just waiting for that one surprise kill.

 

[RagnarokHybrid]

Camping is generally frowned upon because it usually put the camper at a tactical advantage that is rather hard to remove them from. This isn't just in shooters, in MOBA games you get tower humpers, rts games you get people who turtle...etc.
That and it can be extremely frustrating in some shooters, like in MW3 I see ok my team and the enemy team are skirmishing here, I'm going to try to flank around and catch them by surprise, I spend like a minute running around to the other side only to get mowed down by a guy who isn't helping his team mates, he is just sitting in a corner with a thumb up his ass staring down his scope waiting for a single person to come by every 5 minutes.

Pretty much this. Camping saps the fun out of the game very, very quickly.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

It's because really early shooters (Think Goldeneye and the original Quake) often had bad level design, in which a person could sit in a room that had only one entrance, but contained a powerful weapon and some sort of health pack. They would then proceed to sit there and take out every person who tried to go in and get said weapon or health pack, and there was very little you could do to stop them aside from avoiding the room. What's worse is that those older games were designed with the assumption that everyone would constantly be in motion; every time a player starts camping, that's one less player you're going to encounter on a regular basis, if you're a good player. Having played matches where I was the only one /not/ camping, I can vouch that it quickly gets boring for everyone involved.


That's traditional camping in a nutshell. The more insidious form, and one which still survives today, is spawn camping. While good game design can mitigate its effects (I'll be the first to argue that spawn camping is a legitimate tactic and an important part of the game in both Battlefield and TF2), a lot of games are still designed in such a way that a player who knows the spawn points can kill other players before they have a chance to react. In all shooters, even the best player is disoriented for at least a fraction of a second on spawning -- which is enough for a player who was waiting and ready to either kill or seriously injure them. In non-class based shooters, it tends to be even worse, since said disoriented player also starts out with an underpowered weapon every time they spawn.

Long story short, it's a pain in the butt, but mostly a historical curiosity, because good game design can make it a non-issue, or even turn it into a legitimately fair tactic.

 

[Farther than stars]

It's usually because they're upset that they're lost and are looking for something to blame it one; anything other than their skill. But for some classes camping is practically required, take the sniper as an example. And it's not always easy work either. Sometimes you have to have really good timing to run to a spot and set up shop there, it can get really strategic at times.

 

[TheYellowCellPhone]

It translates to "fuck my team, I just want kills".

You could go in the front lines, help your team, heal them, flank the enemy, take the shots for someone, lay down suppressing fire, divert attention to yourself to let others move ahead--

Or you could sit a corner with an SMG pointed at a doorway, or on a hillside taking potshots at an enemy halfway across a map.

It's not that fun either.

 

[Radeonx]

Camping in shooters isn't defending a flag or something, it is normally sitting in a corner and just waiting for the odd person to run into you.
I don't care if a person is patrolling exits and killing you defensively, but it is pretty annoying when they're locked in a corner with no ways to get to them.
With that said, they are normally able to be killed from that spot, so it isn't THAT bad.

 

[Farther than stars]

Camping is generally frowned upon because it usually put the camper at a tactical advantage that is rather hard to remove them from.

Now, I do see that as being necessarily true. The way I see it is that a good player will have the ability to anticipate danger spots and "smoke out" the camper as it were. Sure, maybe the first time I get killed when I rush into a room, but when I respawn, I'll go back and toss in a grenade or whatever.

 

[Lilani]

There are some types of camping I can understand getting mad about. Usually it involves classes which aren't intended for camping, or exploiting areas which weren't intended for camping. For example, I once saw a Heavy in TF2 rack up a 22 kill streak because he hid out in the sewer right on top of where a health kit and ammo pack spawned. There were only three possible ways to enter, and you can pretty much see all of them without having to turn your screen. And because he had back up against the wall, nobody could sneak up on him. It was frustrating.

But then I also get annoyed when people get all whiny about classes who were MADE to camp, like engineers and snipers. Engineers are pretty self-explanitory--they have stuff to set up, and it doesn't move very easily. And snipers are most effective when they are in hard to reach spaces with cover. Otherwise they're just big fat targets for the other team's snipers. People usually get all whiny about them camping when they've got a REALLY good spot and just can't get to them. But that is what they're designed to do.

I'm aware the idea is essentially the same in both situations--using the most beneficial parts of the map to your advantage. But to camp with a class that has a significant role in the field...that's just cheap.

 

[ecoho]

ok theres a defference between camping and takeing a tactical location and exploting your advantage. camping is they guy who sits in a rail car and just sits there till people come along the entrance or try kill them, were as a good sniper on a roof should NEVER move from a good vantage point or the SAW holder who covers the flank these are not camper they are tactical players

 

[Johann610]

Because in PvE, it's what the losers and the desperate do to get past the meaner obstacles in the game. Heck, I do it myself. When mooks do it, it's a silent frustration where you really want them to come out and get closer to your sword / rocket launcher / heavy machine gun, and they won't.
In PvP, the prejudice is the same. Hiding slows that game down, and having to flush players out is as fun as doing it to the mooks.
I get all incoherent over this because I remember the AWP kings from Counterstrike ruining my day, often.

 

[Ixnay1111]

Mostly because if everyone camped no one would be running around getting killed thus, i suppose, not "playing the game".

People who do run around and try and get involved in the game become angry if they keep getting killed by that one random guy who hasnt moved from the one totally defensible position on the map, because they feel cheated.

Theyre playing to make the game fun where as the camper is being selfish and playing simply to win. In my experience though, Campers only get average scores at best most of the time.

Honestly where do you find the fun in waiting around watching a screen until someone just runs into view? Real life? Sure take your time youve only got one life. In a game, go nuts, throw caution to the wind and just have a good time.

Camping and Ninjas are on the same level for me. Not breaking the rules but being unsporting about how they play.

 

[Duskflamer]

For example, I once saw a Heavy in TF2 rack up a 22 kill streak because he hid out in the sewer right on top of where a health kit and ammo pack spawned. There were only three possible ways to enter, and you can pretty much see all of them without having to turn your screen. And because he had back up against the wall, nobody could sneak up on him. It was frustrating.

Nobody was playing demoman to lob explosives at him?
Nobody was willing to team up to come at him from multiple directions at once?
Nobody was willing to set up a medic ubercharge to power past him?

Also, you do realize that the Heavy is listed under the DEFENSIVE classes right? While most people are used to seeing them charging out into the battlefield, defending a spot like that is exactly what the Heavy is best at, and it's not impossible to get around if people are actually willing to work as a TEAM in TEAM fortress.

 

[Tsunimo]

I don't mind it as much in a Death-match mode, but when people do it during a capture mode it is infuriating, because it can, and often will, effectively stop all progression.

 

[Lilani]

For example, I once saw a Heavy in TF2 rack up a 22 kill streak because he hid out in the sewer right on top of where a health kit and ammo pack spawned. There were only three possible ways to enter, and you can pretty much see all of them without having to turn your screen. And because he had back up against the wall, nobody could sneak up on him. It was frustrating.

Nobody was playing demoman to lob explosives at him?
Nobody was willing to team up to come at him from multiple directions at once?
Nobody was willing to set up a medic ubercharge to power past him?

Also, you do realize that the Heavy is listed under the DEFENSIVE classes right? While most people are used to seeing them charging out into the battlefield, defending a spot like that is exactly what the Heavy is best at, and it's not impossible to get around if people are actually willing to work as a TEAM in TEAM fortress.

Oh, I never said we lost. We ended up winning because eventually everybody got smart enough to simply take the top route to their intel room instead of the sewer. And that Heavy never moved from that spot the whole time. We capped three more times and won, and he stayed in the sewer not because it was "strategic" but because it was the easiest medkit/ammo spawn point on the map to camp. He COULD have moved upstairs to help the engie after we blew out his nest, but he didn't. He stayed there til the very end, and I believe the next round he was there for a while, too.

I know there is defending, and I know there is team-playing. That heavy, unfortunately, was doing neither.

 

[FilipJPhry]

Well, sometimes you need campers on your team to draw aggro. You can do objectives that way unless it's TDM or FFA. Then, they're just being assholes.