How Are Comics Still Niche?

[SonofSpermcube]

For myself, it's bang for the buck.

Compare the US comics market to any place where comics aren't a small niche, and no fuckin' joke. For the price of a 20 minute pamphlet in the US you can get a weekly or monthly phone book in Japan. In Korea it'll be half the price. Collections cost a little more, but nowhere near the 20 bucks many US graphic novels are. Even when they're in color in Asia, they still cost less than half what they do in the states.

Combine this with the fact that you have to go to a nerd dungeon to get most current-run comics that aren't superhero comics, and you've pretty much guaranteed the audience will never grow.

Every comic is someone's first, if you can't get into the first thing you pick up either the writer isn't for you or the writer didn't do an adequate job.

Imagine that, in a thread about complaining about comics.

I really don't want to come off as arrogant, and I'm sorry if I am... but to me, comics just don't seem worth it. I enjoy Manga (though not to the point of being a "weaboo") but that's mostly because it usually takes longer than five minutes to finish a book of it, it's numbered so you know where to start, it's easier to pick up the storyline and start from the beginning, and most importantly... it's a story. With the possible exception of Dragonball, you're following the story of very real characters, where death isn't cheap, things progress, and change isn't met with "M-MULTIVERSE! NOW!"

you need to keep in mind how manga is published, they release a few pages in the anthologies at a time then they collect the arc in bulk, Manga are essentially just small graphic novels. (plus there's no colorist most of the time so less time to make, among other things)

They don't collect the arc in bulk, they collect periodically, keeping the collections roughly the same size. That may or may not include a complete arc; usually not.

The thing about numbering is important; Try shopping for American comics collections and figuring out which ones you need to get if you want to get a few to read in order. For some titles, sure it isn't hard, they have numbers. For others, good fucking luck. But what's really confusing is when you've got a title that DOES use numbering, but it's in a catalog/inventory system that doesn't include the number in the title, or where it is otherwise not RIGHT OUT THERE IN FRONT. With manga there's no ambiguity. They save the cutesy chapter titles for the monthly installments and the interior pages.

Or you can like a consistent revitalized version of characters (Marvel's Guardians of the Galaxy and Nova by Dan Abnett and Andy Lanning, yes, recommending) and then some other overrated creator steps in doing his own thing instead of continuing what made the last style popular (Brian Michael Bendis). Sometimes it's a role of the dice :/

Or you could not rehash and reboot the same characters a dozen times. This doesn't happen NEARLY as much with manga, and there is a lot more original material and a wider variety of genres coming from major publishers, which don't require going out of your way to find them.

God I have felt so strongly about this since I learned Japanese. Once I started reading manga in Japanese I had a hard time looking at American comics. Even the stuff I still liked just offended me in its presentation and pricing.

 

[fix-the-spade]

Why do people keep coming back to the big two? The best-selling comic of 2013 was published by Image Comics. Marvel and Dc monopolized slots 2-10 on the top 10 best sellers of the year list with all their reboots. I find that hilarious by the way. The Big Two went through all the trouble of rebooting their series for sells, and they managed to take every spot except for number one; which is held by a long-running series created by an indie publisher.

The irony.

For most of the world it's the big two or nothing. I'm an hour's drive from the nearest shop that sells comics at all and then it's DC, Marvel and some Rebellion stuff (lots of Judge Dredd, Nemesis and the like), no Image at all and no Walking Dead.

The best selling comic is also the one with a highly successful TV series behind it, which is awesome, but the fact that the big two are positions 2-10 shows that it's a big old anomaly, would it have got anywhere without AMC putting it in the non comic reading world's consciousness?

 

[Zontar]

Why do people keep coming back to the big two? The best-selling comic of 2013 was published by Image Comics. Marvel and Dc monopolized slots 2-10 on the top 10 best sellers of the year list with all their reboots. I find that hilarious by the way. The Big Two went through all the trouble of rebooting their series for sells, and they managed to take every spot except for number one; which is held by a long-running series created by an indie publisher.

The irony.

For most of the world it's the big two or nothing. I'm an hour's drive from the nearest shop that sells comics at all and then it's DC, Marvel and some Rebellion stuff (lots of Judge Dredd, Nemesis and the like), no Image at all and no Walking Dead.

The best selling comic is also the one with a highly successful TV series behind it, which is awesome, but the fact that the big two are positions 2-10 shows that it's a big old anomaly, would it have got anywhere without AMC putting it in the non comic reading world's consciousness?

Plus it has the Telltale games to also work as free advertising on top of it all, and unlike those watching the show there is a far better chance of creating overlap with the gamer community. (though given the quality gap, it's much more likely that a gamer would also drop it, since unlike the show the game sets a precedent for quality the comics doesn't deliver on, but that's another thing all together).

 

[Alterego-X]

For the same reason why anime is a really obscure niche in Japan, while the same stories and art styles in manga, light novel, and video game forms are huge pop-cultural elements.


Random cultural baggages, stereotypes, and appeal.

 

[SonofSpermcube]

True it's everywhere.. but no single manga is... see how that works.

One Piece, Fairy Tale, to some extent Naruto. Dragonball was. Hokuto no Ken never fully fades.

AFAIK One Piece is the best selling comic series ever, anywhere.

 

[V4Viewtiful]

Or you can like a consistent revitalized version of characters (Marvel's Guardians of the Galaxy and Nova by Dan Abnett and Andy Lanning, yes, recommending) and then some other overrated creator steps in doing his own thing instead of continuing what made the last style popular (Brian Michael Bendis). Sometimes it's a role of the dice :/

Or you could not rehash and reboot the same characters a dozen times.

tell that to Marvel and DC :/

This doesn't happen NEARLY as much with manga, and there is a lot more original material and a wider variety of genres coming from major publishers, which don't require going out of your way to find them.

The comic industry does however The big 2 don't cover them all.

Which is why I said there is a difference between them most of the Marvel and DC characters are licensed and dictated by those in charge most of the time, they often feel in order to be "relevant" they have to move with the times. It's unavoidable.
I don't think they know how to market to a larger audience either and if they did the audience isn't as big as it used to be to sustain it. Take for example DCs latest reboot, they covered lots of genres and many were good but it didn't have a large enough audience to keep going (which pisses me off, for sure).

Manga doesn't have that problem, most of them are self contained and owned by the creators who can explore different styles provided by publishers, and they release their stuff in bulk, which helps the buyer get a full story. Both industries are very different

 

[kasperbbs]

1) They are ****ing expensive for something that i will be done with in a couple of minutes.
2) I wouldn't even know where to start, most of them have been around for many years and even been rebooted a bunch of times.
3) I have no idea where to even buy them. (ok, i made a quick google search and found a few websites that have them, but the issues they have seem to be random and if you want to read all of it you're out of luck).
4) I would rather stick to reading manga/webtoons online since it's less of a pain in the ass in every way.

 

[diligentscribbler]

Comics are my favorite medium so I am tempted to say it's because manga and mainstream american comics are bullshit that make it hard for really talented people to get their names out.

the Watchmen just isn't the high water mark for comics any more, super heroes comics just need to back up and stop saturating the medium as does manga.

This incessant genre inbreeding is what drives new comers away from comics.

(also less hard cover/deluxe editions. would it kill publishers to offer an affordable paperback.)

Edit also; I know this is a nerd culture site but after reading through all of these comments my soul just hurts.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

You can get comics online now though dont know how much they cost. They do save on storage of back issues but their is still something nice about having the actual physical comic in your hands.

 

[Da Orky Man]

The reasone avengers can kill while the comics lag is because the movies have been carefully crafting their own continuity, rather than drawing on the comics.

Also buying comics these days is a pain. I mean you can't follow a single story arc without buying at least three different titles. And then to figure out what's going on you have to tunnel through the gordian maze of continuity and continuity reboots etc.


Movies basically skip all that and create their own self contained continuity which is much more accessible.

There's also the fact that comics... aren't equally available everywhere.

Being niche isn't a bad thing though... I mean look at what it's done for Manga. Niche allows you to tell tight focus stories that can actually show some development and lasting change in characters and most importantly.. they can end. There's nothing worse than a story that's been dragged on for so long that it just feels tired.

But most popular superheroes have been around since the 40's.

Which, while continuing to be enjoyable to both long-time fans and to people who started reading them at a relatively early age, makes it difficult to be picke dup by someone starting them later in life. People generally want to start from the beginning, which in this case, is often more than 70 years ago. This can be rather overwhelming, even before you take into account the numerous reboots, retcons and alternate universes.

 

[NihilSinLulz]

The reasone avengers can kill while the comics lag is because the movies have been carefully crafting their own continuity, rather than drawing on the comics.

Also buying comics these days is a pain. I mean you can't follow a single story arc without buying at least three different titles. And then to figure out what's going on you have to tunnel through the gordian maze of continuity and continuity reboots etc.


Movies basically skip all that and create their own self contained continuity which is much more accessible.

There's also the fact that comics... aren't equally available everywhere.

Being niche isn't a bad thing though... I mean look at what it's done for Manga. Niche allows you to tell tight focus stories that can actually show some development and lasting change in characters and most importantly.. they can end. There's nothing worse than a story that's been dragged on for so long that it just feels tired.

What? Manga isn't niche in Japan. It's a cultural staple there. It's everywhere. You know how sometimes you'll be on the bus or the train and there will be some guy playing an iphone game, or some older woman doing a crossword puzzle? That's what manga is in Japan. It's not a big deal there, its just... there.

Also, older women do read manga. So do older men, because manga has different genres for different ages, genders, and sexuality. Western comics, or at least the Big Two, don't. There's too much homogeneity going on. The Japanese comic industry never has to worry about stagnation thanks to their diversity. We do.

You'll have to thank the Comic Code for that. Prior to the code, quite a few comics were starting to branch out with romantic comics actually having a period of popularity amongst young girls. Then the Code hit all the creativity went tits up leaving us with only Archie and superheros (even then, just shadows of their former selves).

Thankfully, comics have been seeing a resurgence of creativity thanks to all the indie titles coming out. The big two might suck right now, but at least the internet is making it easier and easier to hear about, buy, and more importantly recommend more daring titles.

 

[ChristopherT]

I just want to put this out there, if you are interested in reading some Marvel comics, but price is the biggest factor, consider trying Marvel's Marvel Unlimited service, I don't know if it's available outside the U.S., I don't know if you'll have as many problems as I had trying to get it to work (usually took 3 - 5 refreshes before a comic would open without problems), but $10 a month, you get access to "1000's of comics", can browse by series or events. It's not a great system, but when it works, you get some nice comics to read. Anyone who does want to read some comics, but the price is too steep, and digital is okay, it might be worth trying at least for one month.

 

[DementedSheep]

Oh hey a bunch of image comics are on sale at comixolgy including Saga, Lazarus and East of West so If you don't mind digital https://www.comixology.com/Image-Eisner-Nominees-Sale/page/1673

 

[tippy2k2]

I just want to put this out there, if you are interested in reading some Marvel comics, but price is the biggest factor, consider trying Marvel's Marvel Unlimited service, I don't know if it's available outside the U.S., I don't know if you'll have as many problems as I had trying to get it to work (usually took 3 - 5 refreshes before a comic would open without problems), but $10 a month, you get access to "1000's of comics", can browse by series or events. It's not a great system, but when it works, you get some nice comics to read. Anyone who does want to read some comics, but the price is too steep, and digital is okay, it might be worth trying at least for one month.

That is kind of brilliant.

As I stated above, the primary reason I'm not into comics is bang for the buck (it cost too much for too little). However, certain events (like Civil War and the Zombies thing) look really really really cool but tracking all of that shit down and paying for it would suck donkey.

That Marvel thing IS available in the US (I looked into it after I saw your post) and it's $10 a month at most. If you pay for the entire year, it's either $70 (for the basic package) or $100 (which comes with a bunch of extra goodies but certainly is not necessary).

I don't think it would work on my Nook however (black & white version) so I would need to figure something out there. Reading them on my phone/computer screen doesn't seem ideal...

Either way, thank you for throwing that out there. That's something I'm going to have to investigate further into.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

I liked and purchased scott pilgrim for every reason i cannot make myself get any other comic.

Small simple arc.
Character progression and permanence, actions matter.
Feels like a reasonable price for a legitimate book sized comic, the same size as a small novel.
Definitive ending that teaches the reader lessons about the comic.
An actual contained, planned and insulated story.
Characters matter and arnt totally disposable.
The plot actually makes some gorram sense.
Not a lot of convolution.

I ADORED scott pilgrim. I just wish i could find something like it.