How comes gamers are "entitled" when they don't get what they expect from a product?

[viranimus]

Ill jump in on this and try to make it simple. Because gaming is an artistic product in that its quality is in the eye of the beholder and completely subjective based on taste and style.

If you point to a static product that has clearly defined features and functions it will fall flat. A dishwasher is such an item. you can expect it to wash dishes, you can expect it to hold flatware, glassware, large and small dishes based on the make/model you chose.

A game is something completely different. If one of the "features" is an "engrossing story line" its completely possible for one person to fully agree with that and the next to disagree based on their style and taste.

So with this subjective nature you cannot make the claim that customers did not get what they expected from the product. Many people are happy with ME3. Its just a much louder group clearly is not. So you cannot create an expectation in a media where it is impossible to define what that expectation is.

 

[Redweaver]

I bought a book and it didn't end how I wanted it to! I bought a DVD and I didn't like the story! I deserve my money back because I paid money for a thing I didn't research and didn't like!

You're trying to make a joke, but unfortunately you've just made yourself the punchline.

The funny part? You CAN return that book and DVD for your money back.

 

[Angry_squirrel]

Generally, because they've been lead to expect something from that product by exaggerations and/or outright lies from the developer. I'm not talking about Mass Effect 3 specifically (I haven't even played it) but it is something that happens a lot in the games industry.

If I buy a game based on something the developers have advertised in interviews, and then that something either isn't there, or is not as good as they made out, then I have a right to be pissed off. That's false advertising, not me being "entitled"

 

[For.I.Am.Mad]

I don't like all the gaming sites and people in the industry wagging their fingers at the fans like some disapproving smartass dad. The fans have every right to complain.

 

[Misho-]

Title says it all, why do people complain about gamers being so entitled?

If I buy a dishwasher, and it doesn't wash dishes correctly, or I have to buy $10 add on so that I can wash forks with it, and I said "NO THESE THINGS SHOULD BE STANDARD!", would that make me entitled? I don't think so, so why is it the case with games?

Why are gamers specifically targeted as being entitled?

because your analogy blows.

Dlc never takes a core part out of the game.

A better example would be having to pay to unlock extra space in your dishwasher.

It does everything it needs to, but you can have more of it if you pay for more.

As much as people like to ***** and moan most dlc isn't that bad.

Well I have to agree here.

See if the dishwasher comes with a locked compartment (for extra dish storing and cleaning or whatever) and you can only unlock it by going to the store and pay extra then... You are completely entitled to complain!! You bought the product... As long as you don't resort to anything illegal to open the compartment or try to sell the method in which to open it. (But that's another story)

Now if the extra feature that you could add later that adds an extra but without the dishwasher is completely functional. Well then you are out of luck.

The product the company made is what they designed and you only buy it if you like it.

Now I thought (by the title and by the current flow of events) that this was a Mass Effect 3 Ending thread (which could be).

Oh and not to be mean, but most gamers have become entitled over the years. (The more vocal demographic of gamers anyhow) This is both good and bad :S

 

[hermes]

The analogy is awful.

Other than that, they are entitled because they think they can do a better job at saying what Mass Effect should be than Bioware... You know, the guys that actually made Mass Effect.

The whole thing is rather sad. No matter how bad the ending is (I haven't seen it yet), it was still an ending. Fans can moan all they want but they have 0 authorial property over Mass Effect... ZERO. No matter how much they claim their Mass Effect is the right Mass Effect, in the end you are just walking over a preset path (wide as it can be), much like reading a book or watching a movie... you can't save Simba's father or make Twilight good, no matter how much you wish for it.

 

[burningdragoon]

I bought a book and it didn't end how I wanted it to! I bought a DVD and I didn't like the story! I deserve my money back because I paid money for a thing I didn't research and didn't like!

You're trying to make a joke, but unfortunately you've just made yourself the punchline.

The funny part? You CAN return that book and DVD for your money back.

I'm not familiar with any law that says so and would like to see it if there is one. That being said, here's Best Buy's return policy [http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Help-Topics/In-Store-Return-Policy/pcmcat204400050028.c?id=pcmcat204400050028].
<spoiler=the important part>
Non-Returnable Items
Some items cannot be returned, including:

Labor, delivery and/or installation services
Pre-paid cards such as music, photo, video or phone cards
Digital content
Pitch In? Card contributions
Consumable items such as food, drink and batteries
Items that are damaged or abused
Items that are missing accessories, such as remote controls, cords and cables
Etched or otherwise personalized items
Opened computer software, movies, music and video games can be exchanged for the identical item but cannot be returned for a refund

 

[Redweaver]

I bought a book and it didn't end how I wanted it to! I bought a DVD and I didn't like the story! I deserve my money back because I paid money for a thing I didn't research and didn't like!

You're trying to make a joke, but unfortunately you've just made yourself the punchline.

The funny part? You CAN return that book and DVD for your money back.

I'm not familiar with any law that says so and would like to see it if there is one. That being said, here's Best Buy's return policy [http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Help-Topics/In-Store-Return-Policy/pcmcat204400050028.c?id=pcmcat204400050028].
<spoiler=the important part>
Non-Returnable Items
Some items cannot be returned, including:

Labor, delivery and/or installation services
Pre-paid cards such as music, photo, video or phone cards
Digital content
Pitch In? Card contributions
Consumable items such as food, drink and batteries
Items that are damaged or abused
Items that are missing accessories, such as remote controls, cords and cables
Etched or otherwise personalized items
Opened computer software, movies, music and video games can be exchanged for the identical item but cannot be returned for a refund

Doesn't have to be a law or even a writen store policy for it to be true.

Bought a $5 copy of Zapped (crappy '80's movie with Scott Baio) at WalMart. Took it home and watched it. Didn't care for it. Took it back for refund and bought some apples instead.

I have no idea if that's standard WalMart policy or it was just a manager being nice but it happened.

So my statement stands, you can return both the book and the DVD and get your money back if you don't like them. Even after you finish reading/watching them.

 

[burningdragoon]

I bought a book and it didn't end how I wanted it to! I bought a DVD and I didn't like the story! I deserve my money back because I paid money for a thing I didn't research and didn't like!

You're trying to make a joke, but unfortunately you've just made yourself the punchline.

The funny part? You CAN return that book and DVD for your money back.

I'm not familiar with any law that says so and would like to see it if there is one. That being said, here's Best Buy's return policy [http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Help-Topics/In-Store-Return-Policy/pcmcat204400050028.c?id=pcmcat204400050028].
<spoiler=the important part>
Non-Returnable Items
Some items cannot be returned, including:

Labor, delivery and/or installation services
Pre-paid cards such as music, photo, video or phone cards
Digital content
Pitch In? Card contributions
Consumable items such as food, drink and batteries
Items that are damaged or abused
Items that are missing accessories, such as remote controls, cords and cables
Etched or otherwise personalized items
Opened computer software, movies, music and video games can be exchanged for the identical item but cannot be returned for a refund

Doesn't have to be a law or even a writen store policy for it to be true.

Bought a $5 copy of Zapped (crappy '80's movie with Scott Baio) at WalMart. Took it home and watched it. Didn't care for it. Took it back for refund and bought some apples instead.

I have no idea if that's standard WalMart policy or it was just a manager being nice but it happened.

So my statement stands, you can return both the book and the DVD and get your money back if you don't like them. Even after you finish reading/watching them.

Oh you got me. It is possible to get a refund for something simply because you didn't like it. Still, "can" and "can under the right circumstances" are not the same.

 

[spartan231490]

I'm just going to say it. YOU BOUGHT IT THE WAY IT IS. Don't like it, sell it. Like it enough to keep playing it? Stop whining about it. Take ME3, for example, yeah the ending blew, but you have no right to demand they change the ending to fit your whim, it's their story. If you hated it that much, don't buy any more bioware games, or sell ME3 so they get less money, or campaign for people not to buy it cuz the ending sucks. Just don't act like you have the right to demand they make the ending your way, you don't. You're veto powers in this industry come from you wallet, no where else. Use what you have and stop wishing for more.

 

[ZorroFonzarelli]

Title says it all, why do people complain about gamers being so entitled?

If I buy a dishwasher, and it doesn't wash dishes correctly, or I have to buy $10 add on so that I can wash forks with it, and I said "NO THESE THINGS SHOULD BE STANDARD!", would that make me entitled? I don't think so, so why is it the case with games?

Why are gamers specifically targeted as being entitled?

To be completely honest, the reason is the exact same reason as anyone gets attacked for getting irritated at something - people want to feel they're better than you. This does NOT apply to:

a) Those who simply didn't mind the ending, even if...
b) They say then didn't mind the ending, but it DOES when said people...

c) cross into the realm of taking pot-shots at you because you feel you've been hosed and they don't.

No, I'm being serious. If you have an issue with something and you vent your frustration about it, that's fine. If someone disagrees with you, that's fine. They tell you they disagree with me, that's fine.

But if they call you 'entitled', or mock your anger when you honestly feel ripped off? As in a game title claiming that "Your Decisions Matter and will lead to different outcomes", and that not being the case in the end?

Bioware was outright disingenuous regarding Mass Effect 3's ending, and they are paying for it. How that can be chalked up to "entitled" can only be answered by those calling those they disagree with names and judgments - and that only comes from one thing...a desire to feel superior to others, telling them to "get a life", etc.

Some upset with ME3's ending DO need to get a life, like the people that tried to have the BBB investigate Bioware's business practices. But there's a huge difference between people simply upset with the quality of a product they've purchased and setting a standard of what can be done for the company to amend itself and meet their expectations and being a "whining fanboy".

Sure, they have a say it of course, and you have a right to call them pretentious pricks if they do.

 

[Vegosiux]

Wait, for a moment there I thought you were implying a 25-30 of gameplay is a long game time.

25-30h of gameplay IS a long game time.

I guess I'm just too old to believe that.

Damn whippersnappers...

 

[romxxii]

Even your analogy is incorrect. The DLC squadmate was already in the distribution disc. A lot of people have proven this by editing config files.

So the more appropriate analogy would be: paying to unlock extra space that's definitely already in the dishwasher, and that you can probably unlock yourself if you knew what you were doing.

Somebody didn't do their homework. -.-

1)ME3 was finished as a whole months before it actually came out.
2)Javik required certain framework elements and models to be on the disk to integrate into the game properly.
3)Placing that framework on the disk was simple. But placing Javik (who frankly was very unnecessary anyway) onto the game would have required months of extra work.

They did something similar with Kasumi and Zaeed in ME2. Stop whining about it.

I love how you removed the part where I explicitly stated that I bought the DLC anyway. Out-of-context quotes really make my day.

That said:
1) True, but that's not the point. The point was that the DLC ? or parts of it ? were completed as well.
2) BS. Are there flags on ME2 allowing you to use Liara prior to downloading Lair of the Shadow Broker?
3) See 2.
4) I'm well aware that the actual DLC contains the mission, as well as the narrative and additional dialogue for Javik. Again, I bought the fricking DLC, and I would again if I had to.

 

[romxxii]

Spoiler: snip

Even your analogy is incorrect. The DLC squadmate was already in the distribution disc. A lot of people have proven this by editing config files.

So the more appropriate analogy would be: paying to unlock extra space that's definitely already in the dishwasher, and that you can probably unlock yourself if you knew what you were doing.

Christ,

Spoiler: insert angry rant about game licensing here

I'm so tired of seeing this argument. It needs to die in a fire because it's wrong. It DOES NOT MATTER if the DLC is on the disc or not. When you buy a game with DLC on the disc, you only get a license for the main content on the disc. They could have ALL the DLC that they will ever make for the game on the disc, it wouldn't matter because you don't own a license to use it. Just because you possess a copy of software does not mean that you have the right to use it. That's how licenses work.

Jeeesus Christ. Do you people not read? Here, let me quote myself, for emphasis:

Spoiler: snip

Spoiler

Title says it all, why do people complain about gamers being so entitled?

If I buy a dishwasher, and it doesn't wash dishes correctly, or I have to buy $10 add on so that I can wash forks with it, and I said "NO THESE THINGS SHOULD BE STANDARD!", would that make me entitled? I don't think so, so why is it the case with games?

Why are gamers specifically targeted as being entitled?

because your analogy blows.

Dlc never takes a core part out of the game.

A better example would be having to pay to unlock extra space in your dishwasher.

It does everything it needs to, but you can have more of it if you pay for more.

As much as people like to ***** and moan most dlc isn't that bad.

Even your analogy is incorrect. The DLC squadmate was already in the distribution disc. A lot of people have proven this by editing config files.

So the more appropriate analogy would be: paying to unlock extra space that's definitely already in the dishwasher, and that you can probably unlock yourself if you knew what you were doing.

But TBH, I'd pay for the DLC anyway (and I did). The config files only unlock the DLC squadmate, not his mission. That part comes with the actual downloaded content.

Spoiler: snip

The real ripoff would be the Digital Deluxe edition, which gives you crappy weapons, crappy armor, a dog that just wanders the shuttle bay, and in-game clothes. The cross-game unlockables (for playing the Kingdoms of Amalur demo) are far better. And doesn't cost extra.

It's more cost effective IMHO to buy the regular game, then pay the 10 dollars US for DLC.

 

[HalfTangible]

Even your analogy is incorrect. The DLC squadmate was already in the distribution disc. A lot of people have proven this by editing config files.

So the more appropriate analogy would be: paying to unlock extra space that's definitely already in the dishwasher, and that you can probably unlock yourself if you knew what you were doing.

Somebody didn't do their homework. -.-

1)ME3 was finished as a whole months before it actually came out.
2)Javik required certain framework elements and models to be on the disk to integrate into the game properly.
3)Placing that framework on the disk was simple. But placing Javik (who frankly was very unnecessary anyway) onto the game would have required months of extra work.

They did something similar with Kasumi and Zaeed in ME2. Stop whining about it.

I love how you removed the part where I explicitly stated that I bought the DLC anyway. Out-of-context quotes really make my day.

That said:
1) True, but that's not the point. The point was that the DLC ? or parts of it ? were completed as well.
2) BS. Are there flags on ME2 allowing you to use Liara prior to downloading Lair of the Shadow Broker?
3) See 2.
4) I'm well aware that the actual DLC contains the mission, as well as the narrative and additional dialogue for Javik. Again, I bought the fricking DLC, and I would again if I had to.

I didn't delete anything. You probably edited that in after i quoted but BEFORE i posted (Not your fault OR mine - it happens). Moreover, not sure why it matters that you bought the DLC anyway, except to accuse you of being a hypocrite, which i did not and do not plan to.

1) Parts that were needed for the DLC to work properly, yes. Is that a problem?
2) Liara wasn't a permanent squadmate. She didn't need to because she would never be selected from an interface, and her art resources were already in the game.
3) If you recall official statements on the matter, the game as a whole was actually done months before release, and in fact pretty much NEEDED months before it was ready to be shipped out. They also needed several months to finish making the DLC. The DLC was done before launch day because they did the final steps of the disk process (don't ask me what, i don't know and the dog is giving himself a BJ is making it hard to remember what it was called *gag*) in tandem with their work on the DLC. IE, they spent the last months before launch day finishing the downloaded part of the DLC.
4) So? You were complaining about it using information that was false.

 

[Hyper-space]

Title says it all, why do people complain about gamers being so entitled?

If I buy a dishwasher, and it doesn't wash dishes correctly, or I have to buy $10 add on so that I can wash forks with it, and I said "NO THESE THINGS SHOULD BE STANDARD!", would that make me entitled? I don't think so, so why is it the case with games?

Why are gamers specifically targeted as being entitled?

Because you are reducing this entire medium and every single artistic value that it has to mere dust. You are doing more harm to this medium than any shitty publisher ever could by devaluing any artistic achievement that has ever been made.

Some triple-A studio releasing a shitty and predictable shooter won't devalue the significance and achievements of the medium. But, reducing EVERYTHING that it has done to mere toy-making will.

I hope to the high heavens that video-games won't end up artistically devoid and its potential ruined because of pissy fans.