How could the British school system improve?

[run_forrest_run]

Lets face it, the British school system is a complete mess: we have people going to uni who don't need to, people who need serious help being grouped in with the rest of the students and we have so many people with degrees that jobs have become much harder to find for people who haven't got one. One thing that really hit me today was when some German kids came to our school for a school trip, and every one of them knew fluent English, I even had a lenghty conversation with one. Whereas in Britain, there is very little people who know any useful French or German by Year 8.

So escapees of Britain (preferably current students), what could the government do to improve the school system here.

I think that there should be much more training for teachers. The amount of teachers I had that would just hand out some sheet or a textbook then go to their computer and not even bother actually teaching us. Also, I think that teachers should be fired if they aren't doing a good job, I find it really sad when a really old and strict teacher gets to stay when a charismatic teacher that teaches in new and inventive ways always seem to go.

Everything. I agree with everything that you just said. I just had a History teacher who fell pregnant and literally stopped teaching; she'd just hand out textbooks, tell us to copy from them and chastise us if we didn't. She's now left on a 9 month pregnancy leave with pay...and that isn't a typo, she really is leaving for 9 months. I have teachers would read of the board like they don't know their subject while an English teacher (best teacher I've ever had) who was able to win the entire classes respect and connect with all of us on a personal level was forced to leave.
As for foreign languages I believe we should be taught German, French etc alongside English. Couldn't hurt to be brought up on two languages. It's not like teaching us these languages over a decade and a bit is going to be difficult.

 

[SckizoBoy]

People aren't taught a subject, they're taught to pass an exam.

That... right there, is the biggest problem with the British education subject. Consequently, they aren't taught in a way that allows them to appreciate any subject, pretty much, let alone like it.

Consequently, I think they should scrap the SAT's altogether, because let's face it, what, in all honesty do they accomplish?! More stupid numbers for teachers to worry about. You should have three sets of exams if we are to maintain the primary/secondary system. Eleven plus (or equivalent), GCSE & A-level, but I find that the gap between the latter two is widening too much. I almost wept when I compared the A-Level maths C1 exam paper with the P1 equivalent I took thirteen years ago.

I think we have a serious problem in that private schools suck up the good teachers. Now, I know this isn't always true, but private schools tend to be able to afford the best equipment, and can be more generous with expelling kids, so teachers naturally prefer to go there. Not to mention that fact that private schools generally pay more anyway. This means that state schools tend to end up with worse teachers, the ones who couldn't get jobs at private schools. Which sucks big time and lends to this cycle where the rich get better education and the poor get suckier education.

A bigger reason is the PGCE requirement to teach at a comprehensive. At private schools, most don't need it, and doing a PGCE can be positively soul destroying. My old man (because he enjoys teaching as a private tutor) decided to do one, but he got turfed to a range of schools, all of which suffered from having severely undermanned science departments. Biology graduates had to teach physics and maths... how fucked up is that?!

And make university free. I realise that we have trouble where loads of people are going to university, but making people pay for it is not the answer.

I agree... but with a couple of stipulations. If current numbers of school-leavers are going to uni, free tertiary education will never be workable as they contribute nothing to the economy for those years and the state cannot withstand the funding bills required purely for teaching purposes, let alone research. Therefore, there must be an upper limit on how many students can take up university places. I always though 10% was about right, because you as an individual need to have both the inclination and propensity for academic life. A lot of degrees these days literally are just pieces of paper, many cannot derive employment of any relevance due to a lack of experience (perceived and otherwise).

I will freely admit that I am an academic elitist, seventy-five percent or more of university students should not even be at university, a great many subjects taught should not be taught and many of Britain's 'universities' should be closed. They did a hell of a lot more good when they were 'polytechnics'. I will invite a great deal of 'flaming' when I say that there is only one 'New University' for whose quality I can vouch, largely because I went there.

Now, ask me which one it is, and how much free time during the day I had while I was there.

 

[ToastiestZombie]

Just thought of a new idea I can add to the list. I think that IT should be bumped up to at least 3 lessons a week in secondary schools. Mainly because most jobs these days will need some sort of computer skill, unless its hard physical labour. But if this was to happen then mandatory IT should be much more than just making stuff on Microsoft Office, it should be about creating new programs and learning about how to do basic coding (bearing in mind im not a coder so I don't know how hard basic coding is). Also, I think that the third lesson of IT should replace something like Humanities, I would say it should replace a language lesson only because the way we teach languages is pretty shit and we dont really need more than 2 lessons if the teaching of the subject isn't improved dramatically.

 

[The-Epicly-Named-Man]

It's certainly a dilemma. You made a comparison to the German school system, but I really don't think that works too well either, or at least wouldn't in Britain (although this an Irish perspective, so I may be wrong). German and French school systems are certainly efficient, but almost to a detriment. My school is pretty lax, but I know that I go a bit mental when I have more than three worth hours worth of homework. I'm fairly sure I'd just give up if I were in a European system, and there's probably plenty who're in a similar mindset. The actual solution is probably somewhere between the two, but I have absolutely no suggestions as to how to improve the British system.

Edit: Actually, as some people may have already pointed out, the exam system's terrible. Too much emphasis on waffling about certain topics, not enough on actually learning about things you're genuinely interested in. Also, less teachers on power-trips, please. They only ruin the chances of the unmotivated ever trying to learn.

 

[OriginalLadders]

Just thought of a new idea I can add to the list. I think that IT should be bumped up to at least 3 lessons a week in secondary schools. Mainly because most jobs these days will need some sort of computer skill, unless its hard physical labour. But if this was to happen then mandatory IT should be much more than just making stuff on Microsoft Office, it should be about creating new programs and learning about how to do basic coding (bearing in mind im not a coder so I don't know how hard basic coding is). Also, I think that the third lesson of IT should replace something like Humanities, I would say it should replace a language lesson only because the way we teach languages is pretty shit and we dont really need more than 2 lessons if the teaching of the subject isn't improved dramatically.

During A-levels I was made to do IT, because I had not done the IT GNVQ my school had been pushing down everyone's throats during GCSE's. After the first three weeks I refused to go the lessons anymore because I already knew everything they were teaching, but couldn't just get some sleep because we were made to do pointless little tasks every five minutes.

I was easily the most computer literate student in the school, despite their insistence otherwise.

EDIT: Just thought I'd point out, this was also a school that made the sixth formers do General Studies as an A-level, the extent of teaching for which was to spend all of Friday afternoon listening to some boring speaker or watching a pointless video. We were made to watch a three hour long video on gravel at one time. I stopped turning up to those sessions as well after that.

 

[Lukeje]

They could actually try teaching maths as a creative subject rather than an exercise in rote memorization...

 

[4173]

Get rid of all the students.

 

[thylasos]

I never could work out if public schools were state schools or private schools because it seems to be the latter but that makes no sense

'Public' schools, which are fee-paying, such as Eton, Cheltenham, and so on, are so called because according to their upper class founders they were open to anyone from the public, since not everyone was born with a great deal of intelligence, but money's available to everyone.

OT: I'd like to see far better language teaching, starting from a younger age. As it is, England, if not Britain, is fairly agressively monolingual and the govenrment will always prioritise industry-specific subjects and easily quanitifable targets over a breadth of education or providing true skills, leaving not just languages, but a plethora of other subjects, out in the cold.

 

[AnarchistFish]

I never could work out if public schools were state schools or private schools because it seems to be the latter but that makes no sense

'Public' schools, which are fee-paying, such as Eton, Cheltenham, and so on, are so called because according to their upper class founders they were open to anyone from the public, since not everyone was born with a great deal of intelligence, but money's available to everyone.

Well that's ridiculous

 

[thylasos]

I never could work out if public schools were state schools or private schools because it seems to be the latter but that makes no sense

'Public' schools, which are fee-paying, such as Eton, Cheltenham, and so on, are so called because according to their upper class founders they were open to anyone from the public, since not everyone was born with a great deal of intelligence, but money's available to everyone.

Well that's ridiculous

It made sense to them... in that it rationalised and even morally elevated their decision to isolate their children amongst their upper-class peers, learning to 'play the game', rather than becoming particularly educated.

 

[Sizzle Montyjing]

Stop giving non-UK people free education.
Seriously, for fucks sake, why is it now that other people from EU countries can go to uni in England FOR FREE and yet i will be lumped with a nice £9000 fee?

But enough about the fact that England is being completely screwed over, back to the matter in hand.

Equality is good and everything, but when it gets to the point that teachers aren't hired on how good they are, but some shitty 'ethnic balancing act', meaning that good teachers get ignored because the school hasn't filled in their quota of people from ethnic backgrounds.


Espeically when the person they hired could barely speak English.
Seriously, pissed me off.


Also more discipline, Kids need to learn discipline.
Seriously, kids these days are a bunch of little tossers.

Oh, and the age thing comes into this, just because you are old, doesn't mean your not a bad teacher, but if you are a bad teacher you shouldn't just be kept on to fill the 'Equality' school thingy.

 

[The Artificially Prolonged]

I haven been in a school since I left a few years ago so I'm not sure how the system is doing now. But if GCSE are still like how I did them, they really need to be changed so pupils are not just taught to past exams so the school can look good by how many students got A's.

 

[AnarchistFish]

Stop giving the fucking foreigners free education.
Seriously, for fucks sake, why is it now that other people from EU countries can go to uni in England FOR FREE and yet i will be lumped with a nice £9000 fee?

Don't we then get free education over there though? I'm not sure...maybe I'm wrong

Also more discipline, Kids need to learn discipline.
Seriously, kids these days are a bunch of little tossers.

See my first posts

 

[Numberatu]

I'm one of the posh gits at a private school, so I've got a slightly different viewpoint, but for starters scrap all the crappy subjects that don't bloody work. There's an A level in leisure studies.Ditto for things like general studies. What employer will take that seriously? There's several other terrible ideas as well (including free schools,the big society in general needs to die though). Also get rid of the UMS points system of grading, the level of cynicism directed at it by teachers is eye opening, which seems to be a way for the government to say "results have gone up in these quarters", without pointing out that exams may well have got easier.
Also we're taught to take exams, not how interesting subjects are, so although subjects like RS, English and History are on the one hand taught by enthusiastic teachers, on the other all that ends up being important is how to do is timings, technique and structure-I can remember reducing certain GCSE history source questions to a simple formula (for 8 or 10 marks, can't really remember, source c&source a+, source c&source a-, repeat for source b, conclude which is more like source c). It becomes about gaming the system, forcing examiners to get you onto the higher curve of marks. Don't get me wrong, I love my current A levels (History, politics, philosophy and english-barring the poetry of carol ann duffy), but being forced to do an AS level breaks up the course and provides unnecessary tension. Despite disliking most of what Michael Gove says, his statements about reducing modules/getting rid of them are right on the money, all it leads to is being examined from year 10 to year 13 constantly.
IT desperately needs a more intense, frankly better focus as well. The IT-centric gcse that's being planned may address concerns, but the current system just doesn't work. I've got mates who taught themselves various programming languages, and do it in their spare time because they enjoy it, but wouldn't bother with the gcse or a level, because its too weak for them, and not great for anyone else who isn't intensely interested. It's a shame, because IT skills that extend further than "control c control v" are going to be quite handy later on.
Oh, and private schools absolutely snap up the best teachers-coupla PHDs, oxbridge graduates, all that lot.
Somewhat in agreement with the whole "don't go to uni, go to somewhere where you'll learn something helpful". Its a bit of an eye-opener how many people seem to decide that uni's basically the place you can be drunk at for 3 years running.
Oh, and far more emphasis on maths and the sciences, because by all accounts we're falling behind in those sectors.

 

[Numberatu]

Oh yeah and stop subsidising the bloody Scottish universities. It's complete rubbish that EVERYONE but the english can go there free of charge, yet they can charge 9000 quid for english students. Scotland has a population of around a million, is running out of oil, is in no way going to become the "Saudi Arabia of renewable energy", and the way the EU is going is not going to be welcomed in with open arms right now-given debt crises and all. To charge the kids of the rest of the population who subsidise the free prescriptions and education is really outrageous. In reference to the guy above about foreigners-if you're not from the EU, you pay a huge amount. Really, really huge amount. I believe it's 27 grand *per year*

 

[Sizzle Montyjing]

Don't we then get free education over there though? I'm not sure...maybe I'm wrong

Not too sure... maybe we do, but i do think that we still have to pay the most for Uni in our own country.
Besides, the UK is a lot more leneant (i think) about

See my first posts

My problem is, that it's too easy for kids to get away with things, a kid at my school managed to get a teacher fired from his job for claiming that he hit him.
(he didn't by the way)
That's just out of order.
We can support these kids all we want, but there parents need to do something.

 

[Esotera]

Stop giving the fucking foreigners free education.
Seriously, for fucks sake, why is it now that other people from EU countries can go to uni in England FOR FREE and yet i will be lumped with a nice £9000 fee?

It isn't free, pretty damn sure. The maximum a university can charge is the standard rate in the EU country of origin, but all the foreign students I know are propping up the university system, some are paying £12K a year. Obviously that might change with the tuition fee reform.

OT: I don't think there's any way to do it other than making education more relevant. Most people will not need to know the circle theorems for their work, so let them learn about it in their own time if they're interested, and do more vocational training. Also way too many do useless subjects at degree level, and there are too many people going to university so that the degree has less worth...there need to be tiers of degree. That's just scratching the surface though.

 

[Sizzle Montyjing]

-snip-

No... i defiently think that at least some people are getting it completely free.
Scotland especially, i do know that.
And did my post not edit?
Curses...

 

[Esotera]

No... i defiently think that at least some people are getting it completely free.
Scotland especially, i do know that.
And did my post not edit?
Curses...

My bad, too little sleep and too much coffee made Britain == England. Fees in English universities are high for foreign students, not sure what it's like for the rest.

 

[OriginalLadders]

No... i defiently think that at least some people are getting it completely free.
Scotland especially, i do know that.
And did my post not edit?
Curses...

To my knowledge, only Scottish students get free university education, and even then only at Scottish universities. Students from the EU have to pay the same rates as English students, and anyone from outside the EU has to pay more.