How could the Pokemon anime have been improved?

BoredRolePlayer

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Fuck just make it like the Pokemon Adventure manga. There was actual threat to the world, and the villains weren't always "Gotta have the best pokemon ROAR". One group was about the environment, and another villain was to see his friend one last time. I like how not every trainer wants to be the "best" in pokemon battling. It was just a fun book to read through over and over. The one thing I don't like was how they worded who got a pokedex, it made it seem like a power more so then a skill. Like "The skill of trading" what the hell does that mean outside of X knew to give Y Z then trade for Y to evolve.
 

Spider RedNight

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I'm with the majourity here, take Ash out and make it about someone new so we can care about him. Ash isn't a great trainer, the show just wants us to think so because he has a lvl 99 Pikachu.

Why don't they make it about someone a little more destitute and pathetic who doesn't actually go in with much knowledge about Pokemon, just that it's his destiny because apparently 10-year-olds are allowed to just up and leave home under the guise of being a trainer. Why not make him utterly fail at everything he's doing and just kind of blundering through?

Oh wait, (aside from the really good Origins) they already made the perfect Pokemon series.

 

FPLOON

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Drathnoxis said:
Cut down on Team Rocket!
But, the Black and White arc with Team Rocket was the beat aspect of that arc...
Make Ash earn his gym badges
Meh... It's kinda fixed since it rarely happens when the Gym Leader just goes "Here you go, Ash... The gym badge that you didn't even win for!" Then again, there was one Gym Leader who was just giving away free badges and Ash was all like "Ah hell naw! I'm going to battle you for that fucking badge no matter what!", so there's that...
Have more recurring characters
The only one from your list I agree with even if we only got one season/series of Pokemon Chronicles, which after its first three episodes basically started focusing on some of the characters introduced throughout Ash's journey...
So what do you think? What would you have changed about the Pokemon Anime?
Honestly, all of my ideas for improvement can be summed up with "Just make a spin-off series that's like a mashup between Pokemon Chronicles and Pokemon: Origins"... I mean, I have nothing against Ash or the people that follow him on his never-ending journey (except Iris because fuck her for constantly calling Ash a "kid" even when it's fucking unwanted), but considering how much as "improved" between Ash's old and current English VA, I'm more surprise when the series does do a callback to the earlier journeys than when yet another one of Ash's Pokemon has to depart... Then again, Paul was the "latest" rival of Ash where I love to hate him for basically being the "anti-Ash", but I digress...

Other than that, after the three Diamond/Pearl movies, I really want the Pokemon movies to be more connective in the "because X happens [in the previous film(s)], Y is happening [in this movie]"... Too bad the "Mega Mewtwo" movie kinda retconned the first movie, though... :p
 

Asita

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Hero in a half shell said:
That said, let me ignore it all now by stating how I would have liked Pokemon to have been improved:

Personally I would delve further into the Pokemon trainers and people that Ash et al. meet along the way. Show more of the people of the world, and how they use Pokemon for everyday tasks, so we see the protagonists learning and growing in knowledge of the world as they see how human miners use their ground Pokemon to dig rocks and minerals, human farmers using grass Pokemon to help grow crops, human engineers using electric pokemon in power plants, etc. Maybe include an implication that the gym challenge is used to teach the children how bond and connect with their Pokemon to the level that they could safely partner up in future jobs that could be dangerous if they are using Pokemon they aren't familiar with - Or maybe that would be too much of an injection of personal head-canon for creating a mainstream show out of, but this is a vanity comment anyway so I'm gonna say that.

More focus on world building, on exploring how a civilization that can harness the power of magical elemental creatures would actually develop. It can still be light hearted and optimistic, but just replacing the filler repetitiveness with an overarching story of kids discovering how the world works, with a view of finding out how they actually want to integrate into that world when they are older and know their Pokemon better.
Ooh, I like that. It changes the initial goal in Pokemon from a vague "I want to be the very best Pokemon Master (whatever that is)" to one of self-discovery and promotes a stronger ensemble cast, more inventive use of Pokemon abilities, arguably reflects the nominal moral of teamwork and camaraderie better than the current battle format does, and gives a greater sense of long term investment.
 

Kingjackl

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Basically it should have ended sooner. The first 2 series had the most unique and interesting stories because they were made with the assumption it wouldn't become a serialised thing. But then it got stretched out around Johto, resulting in a lot of padding and a lot of reused ideas. That's not to say there wasn't good stuff in later seasons (on the whole, Advanced Generation was pretty good) but it gets hard to separate the wheat from the chaff.
 

BoredRolePlayer

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Spider RedNight said:
I'm with the majourity here, take Ash out and make it about someone new so we can care about him. Ash isn't a great trainer, the show just wants us to think so because he has a lvl 99 Pikachu.

Why don't they make it about someone a little more destitute and pathetic who doesn't actually go in with much knowledge about Pokemon, just that it's his destiny because apparently 10-year-olds are allowed to just up and leave home under the guise of being a trainer. Why not make him utterly fail at everything he's doing and just kind of blundering through?

Oh wait, (aside from the really good Origins) they already made the perfect Pokemon series.

Got dammit I love rusty.
 

bartholen_v1legacy

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Spider RedNight said:
I'm with the majourity here, take Ash out and make it about someone new so we can care about him. Ash isn't a great trainer, the show just wants us to think so because he has a lvl 99 Pikachu.

Why don't they make it about someone a little more destitute and pathetic who doesn't actually go in with much knowledge about Pokemon, just that it's his destiny because apparently 10-year-olds are allowed to just up and leave home under the guise of being a trainer. Why not make him utterly fail at everything he's doing and just kind of blundering through?

Oh wait, (aside from the really good Origins) they already made the perfect Pokemon series.

Fucking hell that was glorious xD Why hadn't I heard of this earlier?

Oh goddammit, now I want to play the newest pokemon again. But no fucking way am I paying more for a 3DS than a PS3 on my current budget. Damn you, student life!
 

Shoggoth2588

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Team Rocket were definitely annoying, especially since their motto felt like it took up a portion of every episode that could have been better spent in tons of different ways. Honestly, I think it would have been interesting to just drop the pretense and have Jesse and James join up with Ash and friends. Other than that one of my bigger gripes with the show is that in all of the collections I'm aware of, there isn't a single one that features the original Japanese vocal track. I'd really like to see Pokemon in its original Japanese.
 
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I'll throw in another vote for "Remove Ash as the Protagonist", but with a bit of a twist. Have Ash come back, except a few years older (say 15-17), has a Raichu mow, and have him act as the mentor party member like how Brock used to be. That way we could still have Ash as part of the main cast, but give him the chance to grow up while the new protagonists could be there to act for the younger generation.
 

Drathnoxis

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RJ 17 said:
One way it could be improved is to make it more like the game.

I don't recall Ash ever having to fight his way through an army of Bug Catcher Billies and Cool Dude Arins in order to get from one town to the next. Also they tend to skip the customary part of each battle where the winner sucker-punches the loser and steals their wallet.

That's what the Pokemon anime needs more of. :3
Oh, and don't forget forcing Ash to fight hordes of Zubat and Geodude ever couple of seconds whenever he steps foot in a cave! Now that would be an interesting show!

BoredRolePlayer said:
Fuck just make it like the Pokemon Adventure manga. There was actual threat to the world, and the villains weren't always "Gotta have the best pokemon ROAR". One group was about the environment, and another villain was to see his friend one last time. I like how not every trainer wants to be the "best" in pokemon battling. It was just a fun book to read through over and over. The one thing I don't like was how they worded who got a pokedex, it made it seem like a power more so then a skill. Like "The skill of trading" what the hell does that mean outside of X knew to give Y Z then trade for Y to evolve.
I keep hearing about how good this manga is. I really have to get around to reading it one of these days.

Shoggoth2588 said:
Team Rocket were definitely annoying, especially since their motto felt like it took up a portion of every episode that could have been better spent in tons of different ways. Honestly, I think it would have been interesting to just drop the pretense and have Jesse and James join up with Ash and friends. Other than that one of my bigger gripes with the show is that in all of the collections I'm aware of, there isn't a single one that features the original Japanese vocal track. I'd really like to see Pokemon in its original Japanese.
Hmm, Team Rocket and Team Twerp joining up. It sounds interesting, but what reason could there be to make it work?

Also yeah, I'd love to see the show in Japanese(with English subs since I can't speak Japanese). There are some fansubs out there, but only up to episode 40.
 

Charli

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Have Ash age... The lesson of it's alright to lose has lost it's meaning, especially when he's lost in a perpetual ageless hell from which there is no escape. Looking at the anime from a distance it's actually quite horrifying.

I was looking forward to the Gold/Silver kids appearing once those games came out, but I was left disappointed. Especially since they had a better rival/hero story to investigate.

I mean we can keep Ash and Pikachu around... they can mentor the newbies or whatever, but freaking christ, the anime is so stagnant it hurts.
 

MeatMachine

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Maybe if Gary Oak remained the primary antagonist and a pompous cock, rather than being dumped off after the first season as a reformed cameo, that would've been more fun.

Actually, that can be said for EVERY character outside of Ash and Pikachu. All of the primary characters are uninteresting and practically never leave the spotlight, while nearly all of the minor characters that see a few iotas of development inevitably get erased from existence and memory. The exception to this is Jesse and James, but their meaningful character arcs are often buried under their goofy overexposure as inept villains, rather than tragic figures trying to take the easy way to success to escape their insecurities and tortured past. There's potential for them to be very well-written characters, but I guess character development and contrasting motivations are too complex and overstimulating for the target demographic.
 

BoredRolePlayer

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Charli said:
Have Ash age... The lesson of it's alright to lose has lost it's meaning, especially when he's lost in a perpetual ageless hell from which there is no escape. Looking at the anime from a distance it's actually quite horrifying.

I was looking forward to the Gold/Silver kids appearing once those games came out, but I was left disappointed. Especially since they had a better rival/hero story to investigate.

I mean we can keep Ash and Pikachu around... they can mentor the newbies or whatever, but freaking christ, the anime is so stagnant it hurts.
Hell he lost to a new trainer and it was brushed away as "Oh Zekrom fucked up Pikachu's lighting". Which given how ass backwards pokemon fight in that anime he shouldn't have lost.

Drathnoxis said:
It's a fun read, it has a arc for each set of games (My favorite is R/S). I wasn't to keen on the DDP arc, like in the games I dislike....Diamond.
 

Raggedstar

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It's hard to maintain quality for 700+ episodes with the same characters. It felt a bit more honest in the first few seasons because everything was a novelty. We had one mission with a perceived end. But Ash is part of the brand, and you can't lose him. He and his gang suffer from having to learn and re-learn the same things at the turn of a generation and switch the old Mons for the new models to advertise them. For being at it for so long, how is Ash still, STILL failing as a trainer for the most remedial things? The show even recycles episodes (for example, Ash lets Pidgeot leave to protect a flock of his species. Later, conveniently, Jessie and James release Arbok and Weezing so they can protect groups of their own species). When taken as a whole, it's so tiring and the show would have to be worked from the ground up to save itself (which I doubt will happen). Part of the reason why people think the Digimon anime is superior because it largely avoids this. Each season is around 50 episodes (with the exception of S6 and Tri) and usually have a new cast every time. While "save the world" is always the plot, the enemies, rules, and themes often changed with them. I don't think the show is perfect and it may be the reason why Digimon's branding isn't as recognizable, but it does have an interesting contrast with the Pokemon anime.

In short, more Pokemon Origins plz. I wish it was a full series, because that was pretty refreshing (and not in a "Gen 1 is the only good one, hurr" sort of way).
 

Auron225

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If they're not going to ever change protagonists, then they need to at least surround Ash with a cast of like-able characters. I don't mean sidekicks, whose job is to watch Ash send out Pikachu and send Team Rocket blasting off again. I mean actual characters with goals of their own, which are just as important as Ash's to catch em' all / become Champion. I don't even care if they're stock goals, like fame/fortune or to find out what happened to their dead parents - that would still be an improvement... but obviously something even kind of original would be nice;

- Find missing sibling
- Find a certain Pokemon (not legendary, just rare as shit)
- Open a gym
- Take down evil Team
- Also become Champion (rival/companion for Ash from start to finish)

That kinda stuff. Make their goals conflict with each other from time to time. Have their personalities rub each other the wrong way when certain issues are raised. Do what other good stories do anyway - you don't get a free pass just because your show has Pokemon in it.

09philj said:
Make Brock not a pervert, but keep his terrible sense of humour.

You know what, scratch all that. Make Brock the main character. I don't care what he does, it doesn't matter. Just give me more of that glorious man :p
 

Plucky

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think the thing i liked about the original companions was that they were just co-protags, even if most of Misty's initial pokemon never saw use (Horsea/Goldeen arguably gets it the worst) or Brock's Onix, they had goals. later on since Advance they always had to stick a girl protagonist to represent the latest set of games, then reverted back to the two-gym leader system in BW presumably because the BW protags are older in-universe in the games themselves, this time round in XY they just shoehorn in Serena into a backstory involving Ash just to canonize her as being roughly the same age rather than being older. At least they had the decency of spreading traits around to make them likable overall now instead of having a all-expert conspiracy nut sommelier and a wild child gym leader (is that even canon since Roxie?) that had two lots of Togekiss* to make her team better, now you just have 2 sides of Brock moved to the co-protags and bought back a Max-alike child sans intelligence.

Like the Adult/Wizened, team mom and womanizer aspects of Brock was moved to Clemont, Serena and (to a lesser extent) Bonnie respectively which meant that Bonnie's role as the child is believable and is overall less grating in comparison to Max. but this came at a price of having Serena's Pokemon not really using moves for 20 episodes and always has a one-sided crush on Ash; Japan tends to use this goat near the winter months-February that and X/Y had nothing like contests to break monotony, so she just makes rivals just from cooking contests and Pokevision until they started to do random contests...but not quite contests every so often. and Clemont isn't really doing much neither, no Pokemon evolved and he had to have a backstory to push in a Luxray/Luxio.

Rotating co-protagonists would be nice, or even flesh out the characters so that they're similar to their game counterparts but something to make them different. you'd think maybe Clemont would trust the group enough to leave Bonnie with them and some other character comes in, then swaps back out. also Team Rocket needs a better dynamic with their Pokemon, guess they made a start by avoiding hurting/overly hugging/harming pokemon like Victreebel/Cacnea/Seviper/Chimecho. Inkay/Gourgeist seems pretty neutral so far, could realistically see Wobbufett being back due to fan popularity. Chimecho tries to fill too many niches (affectionate, the Wobbuffett motto filler, kind of similar to Mime Jr).


* By "a Togekiss", i mean characters gaining powerful and/or area-inconclusive Pokemon for the sake of adding diversity or to just make characters more interesting. like James finding a Carnivine in one of his many mansions or a Yamask near a museum, or Dawn getting a Togekiss from an identically -looking princess, Jessie's Pumpkaboo (latter case), Iris is an extreme case since she had a Excadrill all that time before she revealed that she had one and that she managed to catch a Charizard-like Dragonite. also, James' Victreebel, anyone?
 

Julianos_Valentinus

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Personally, I'd give each new region a new protagonist too, but I'd allow the old protagonist (Ash, for example) to show up once in a while as a side character. It'd be really interesting to see follow the protagonist of Hoenn and then in one episode see Ash and friends appear, a bit older and more weathered, trying to win the next big league. It'd introduce character growth and it'd make it easier for new and old fans to relate to the show.

The older fans would see old favourites come back, which is always a good thing. New fans would be able to see the link to the games. A fan that started with Ruby would recognize the protagonist being the one from the games because of the design. And let's be honest, older protagonists could become interesting rivals for new protagonists, kind of like Pokemon Gold/ Silver where you had to go back to Kanto and fight against Red.

That alone would make the show worth watching again. Other than that, less Team Rocket would be nice. If you were to use my example, you could have the occasional Team Rocket appearance as well (linked to Ash), but otherwise it'd be completely unrelated to new protagonists.

Yeah, I'm bumping an old thread, but it sounded interesting.
 

Saelune

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Simple. Have it star a competent trainer. I HATE Ash, hes an idiot who doesn't even know what hes doing who only ever succeeds cause the plot says so. One episode they were on a boat and being raided by "pokemon pirates" ie disowned water pokemon. I'm just like "use Pikachu, zap em and done...oh wait, this is the anime, use Charizard". I said that as a JOKE...ASH USED CHARIZARD! They later do a 2 v 2 where they then DO acknowledge type disadvantage and I'm like, How DARE you even pretend it matters anymore.

Plus Ash constantly gives away pokemon, and rarely bothers catching new ones, even ones he has no reason to not catch. Where is Primeape? Why did you not try to catch that Spoink that clearly is wild that TWICE you helped it find its pearl?

My favorite episode is where he catches Snivy...cause he just...does. The whole plot is "Hey, a Snivy, I want it" and its just him chasing it down and trying to get it.

They should just make a new anime based on Pok?mon Origins but do it for Gold/Silver and ya know, more than 6 episodes. Id watch it.