How Deep is "deep"?

[Lord Thodin]

Hey there fellow Escapees. I come before you with a question involving the immersion of a video game. Allow me to elaborate:

A lot of video games out there claim to be deep, and immersive; whether its their world that will draw you or the characters. Well what I would like to know is.....how deep is a puddle? By that I mean I've played games from Elmos Letter Adventure to Mech Assault, to Oblivion and every thing in between, but Ive never felt apart of the world, or "one" with my character. For example in say, Fallout 3, a game praised for its immersive world, and content, I felt a rather lack luster middle finger jammed in my face when I tried to get in to the game. The scenery had the all to familiar, "seen that a million times" feel to it. The characters would scream and holler but their faces seemed so immobile that they may have just snorted starch. Also, I didnt care for the character that I'd developed for so long. The creation of mine that I, honestly, took about 5 minutes creating. Whenever I got knocked down, or killed I didn't feel hurt, or sad for my character. I felt like an angry coach watching his player slack off, whilst screaming, "Get up or get my boot in your ass!" Another example would be Oblivion. Its supposed to be a world without limits. For fucks sake, I've read about people putting more than 500 hours of time into that game. I completed it, and a slew of side quests in a little under 37 hours. And hey, I felt accomplished that I saved all the pixels from destruction from the jerk-ily moved Deadra, but I couldnt care if I HADNT saved them, ya know what I mean?

Just so this doesnt seem like a gauntlet throwing towards Bethesda, Ill target another game claiming immersion. Fable. Fable:TLC was a good game. A very good game in comparison to Fable 2, but what Fable:TLC had was linearity. I knew what I was supposed to be doing, when I should do it, and dilly dalling around would only take away time from the inevitable. So I, like many, waited with baited breath for Molyneauxs Fable 2. I played it, and got all 3 endings multiple times. I never once felt any different for taking any particular moral choice over the other. I felt very indifferent to destroying the Temple of Light, or the Temple of Shadows. Hell I actually wanted to kill the children. I didn't "love" my dog. It was a mini map that made sounds. Yea I felt bad when it yelped and limped from battle, but only because he was slowing down my treasure hunt.

Finally I'll end on a side note. The closest time Ive ever felt like a part of the video game universe I was currently in control of was in the second Gears of War when Dom had to shoot Maria. The voice acting, coupled with the believable fantasy story line, and script made me feel like these guys would be buddies I'd hang out with. So when one of my friends had to kill his wife, it gave me goosebumps. But the figting quickly resumed and I had to remember that I was in it to win it. Thats when I took stock of ammo and grenades and was drawn out of the world again.

So my question to you Escapees is this: What is Immersion in a video game? Also am I being to critical of the video games? Am i expecting too much, and thats why Im not feeling for the characters? Also as a side note, feel free to add any games that I may get "immersed" in or that you have personally been immersed in.

EDIT: What is Immersion to YOU in a video game?

 

[Jurassic Rob]

How wall of text Batman!

OT: Immersion for me is when I am playing the game, nothing else exists at that moment in time. It's a place where 1 hour melds in 9!

 

[Lord Thodin]

How wall of text Batman!

OT: Immersion for me is when I am playing the game, nothing else exists at that moment in time. It's a place where 1 hour melds in 9!

Good point. And by chance did you mean Holy*?

 

[The_Healer]

Hmm... I found that Fallout 3 was accomplished when it came to immersion. Maybe i wasn't fully attached to my character... but I was in touch with his ideals... eg. When i was good I did anything that seemed to me as right even if it gave me bad Karma and got angry at people who were trying to ruin my perfect little world.

If you want to feel your character's pain... may i suggest you attach yourself to some electrodes that shock you every time you get shot?

 

[Florion]

I know what you mean; video games tend to suck at storytelling. Characters are created to fulfill a plot which was created to fulfill a gameplay idea, rather than the other way around (which I'm guessing would reverse the priority of each, but I really don't know).

For immersion, I think one of my favourite games was Bioshock - not for the little girls or for Jack, they were crap, but watching the struggle between

Spoiler: the other characters

"Atlas," or his persona, and Fontaine as a rival

and Andrew Ryan was fantastic. I couldn't give a crap about the guy I was controlling, but I couldn't help but feel like I had to carry out whatever mission I was doing because of the sympathy I had for

Spoiler: this character's story

Atlas, like I had to get revenge for the death of his family

and I totally got played by the middle of the game. It was fantastic.

Sometimes it's fun to not get immersed in games. I can't imagine playing Battlefield 1943 without laughing my head off everytime I get shot down. But it would be nice to have more thoughtful games in the future. I'm looking forward to Heavy Rain.

 

[sgtshock]

Oblivion and Fallout 3 aren't really games you get immersed in because of the characters, but in all the things to do and see in the world. If the creepy, phony-looking people that inhabit them are keeping you from immersion, maybe you should try games with more believable characters, like Half-Life 2 or Bioshock.

 

[NeutralDrow]

So my question to you Escapees is this: What is Immersion in a video game? Also am I being to critical of the video games? Am i expecting too much, and thats why Im not feeling for the characters? Also as a side not, feel free to add any games that I may get "immersed" in or that you have personally been immersed in.

You pretty much described immersion, already. Well, one form. There's the soft immersion that makes you forget temporarily that you're playing a game, as it becomes your main focus. Then there's the hard immersion, where rather than just forget you're playing, you really feel from the perspective of whatever game it is. This requires good storytelling at the least, for the required emotional connection, and good voice acting, artwork, animation, etc. where applicable...and audience inclination.

Immersion just comes differently to different people. I can't really recommend anything, because I tend to be disconnected from reality (so to speak) rather more easily...and it helps that the games I frequently play are specifically geared towards doing so (and I'm always leery of recommending visual novels to other members of the Escapist)*.

<color=white>That is a bald-faced lie.

 

[Lord Thodin]

Oblivion and Fallout 3 aren't really games you get immersed in because of the characters, but in all the things to do and see in the world. If the creepy, phony-looking people that inhabit them are keeping you from immersion, maybe you should try games with more believable characters, like Half-Life 2 or Bioshock.

I did try Bioshock. But not because it has believeable characters. The game was alright, and the scenery was immersive but the Vita chambers ruined it for me. I mean i loved feeling like i was getting water dumped on me when i walked under a broken pipe and my screen waved. However how am i supposed to get attached to a game where there is no death penalty. I just start back a little ways away. And Half-life 2 ive never played.

 

[Aardvark]

The System Shocks

If you wanted immersion, they were it. Grabbed you, sucked you in, frightened the life out of you and had you cowering in a corner before you'd reached the end of the first level.

 

[Lord Thodin]

So my question to you Escapees is this: What is Immersion in a video game? Also am I being to critical of the video games? Am i expecting too much, and thats why Im not feeling for the characters? Also as a side not, feel free to add any games that I may get "immersed" in or that you have personally been immersed in.

You pretty much described immersion, already. Well, one form. There's the soft immersion that makes you forget temporarily that you're playing a game, as it becomes your main focus. Then there's the hard immersion, where rather than just forget you're playing, you really feel from the perspective of whatever game it is. This requires good storytelling at the least, for the required emotional connection, and good voice acting, artwork, animation, etc. where applicable...and audience inclination.

Immersion just comes differently to different people. I can't really recommend anything, because I tend to be disconnected from reality (so to speak) rather more easily...and it helps that the games I frequently play are specifically geared towards doing so (and I'm always leery of recommending visual novels to other members of the Escapist)*.

<color=white>That is a bald-faced lie.

See i also try RPGs and JRPGs and that attaches me to the characters but not the world around them. I feel like Im a mouse, and I've bonded with my fellow mice and we are being led through a maze not a real world. Ya know?

 

[Lord Thodin]

The System Shocks

If you wanted immersion, they were it. Grabbed you, sucked you in, frightened the life out of you and had you cowering in a corner before you'd reached the end of the first level.

Were they released for a console? I dont own a PC that I could game on. I hear Yahtzee sing their high praises but I never played them

 

[LordGarbageMan]

How deep is deep? Heavy Rain is deep, that's about all that comes to mind.

 

[Julianking93]

Oblivion, Fallout 3, Silent Hill 2, Dead Space, The MGS series, and Kingdom Hearts I and II.

That's Immersion. Great story, great lovable/hatable characters, and great atmosphere.

 

[Aardvark]

Were they released for a console? I dont own a PC that I could game on. I hear Yahtzee sing their high praises but I never played them

If they were re-released on XBLA, I would pay for and download them again in a heartbeat.

They're old as the hills, you'd be hard pressed to find a PC that can't run them, these days.

 

[Deadarm]

I actually agree with the OP about the bethesda syndrome making it hard to get immersed. I really like the bethesda RPGs, they are pretty fun if you can handle the loading screens... and in the case of oblivion the overly retarded cell loading lag you had to go through every 3 steps. Elder Scrolls 3 and its xpacks are my favourite combo from them so far, including all its glitches. I like the game because it goes into all the little details and has all of the books that are more or less side stories to the main storyline. As far as immersion goes I am incapable of being fully consumed because my brain is always in 2 places at once and the half in reality is always aware of everything within earshot, the other is off somewhere that I can rarely keep track of. The half however that I have no controll over can get involved with the story and characters but I still rarely feel any attatchment to them. I will say this though the closes I have ever come to immersion was playing the mission "All Ghillied Up" in CoD4. I am a stealth fanatic so its not something weird for me to enjoy sneaking around like that as much as I did, but immersion it was not.
I highly doubt theres a game out there capable of full immersion, because it would require a VR headset and about 50 things that no game I've ever seen was anywhere near capable of. It would also have to be a flawless simulation of whatever the circumstances were of the game and have a story like no other. What I mean by that is it would have to be something like an MMO but you arent "the chosen one" who is the "only one capaple" of completing this quest at level 2, and at the highest level you arent given gear that is "all powerful" just like everyone else has. It would have to be something that looked and fealt alot like The World from the .hack shows, with all sorts of random events and glitches like the shows had to so that if there was a problem it fealt like a problem. Yet there would be a way to be the top person with the best possible this that or the other but it would have to be obtained through various special methods and each item would have to be moderator awarded due to its power, so that not everyone can have one and only the very best of the best can.


Wall of text brought to you by extremely curvy train of thought.

 

[NeutralDrow]

So my question to you Escapees is this: What is Immersion in a video game? Also am I being to critical of the video games? Am i expecting too much, and thats why Im not feeling for the characters? Also as a side not, feel free to add any games that I may get "immersed" in or that you have personally been immersed in.

You pretty much described immersion, already. Well, one form. There's the soft immersion that makes you forget temporarily that you're playing a game, as it becomes your main focus. Then there's the hard immersion, where rather than just forget you're playing, you really feel from the perspective of whatever game it is. This requires good storytelling at the least, for the required emotional connection, and good voice acting, artwork, animation, etc. where applicable...and audience inclination.

Immersion just comes differently to different people. I can't really recommend anything, because I tend to be disconnected from reality (so to speak) rather more easily...and it helps that the games I frequently play are specifically geared towards doing so (and I'm always leery of recommending visual novels to other members of the Escapist)*.

<color=white>That is a bald-faced lie.

See i also try RPGs and JRPGs and that attaches me to the characters but not the world around them. I feel like Im a mouse, and I've bonded with my fellow mice and we are being led through a maze not a real world. Ya know?

I can definitely understand that, too. The scenery can be pretty, but it takes more than the simple fact of an open world to make the environment as immersing as the story. Just as my personal inclinations, a world should be easy on the eyes and have relatively unrestricted movement (as in 3D motion, rather than simple paths), and locations should have a generally dynamic nature that still coincides with a unique character. And, the kicker, it has to be done well.

I've only noticed all of these in a few games. Tales of Symphonia comes immediately to my mind, Soulbringer and Wizardry 8 come after a bit of thought. (and LoZ: Ocarina of Time and Wind Waker come to mind after I lose the RPG restriction). If I'm understanding Yahtzee correctly, Silent Hill 2 also manages this.

 

[atol]

Morrowind has been the only game I've been able to immerse myself into. I can get into Oblivion now and then, but there's too many things that can snap that immersion like a twig. Fallout 3 - not even close, and it actually made the game worse when I tried.

 

[DoomyMcDoom]

only a few games have provided me with a high level of immersion. one of which was the original fallout... still does, and I lose track of time... same with fallout 2... and fallout 3 has some gripping stuff and i can say i have gone through periods of complete immersion in it... but it could be better y'know...

 

[APPCRASH]

I'm not one for immersion. I keep most of my games in a windowed mode, with my own music in the background, and usually take break every few minutes if someone messages me.

 

[whiskey rock n' roller]

You gotta try half life 2, no cutscences, no dialogue from the main character, not a great deal of story. You do feel like your the hero in that game.