How did Bravely Default get such praise?

[tippy2k2]

I am a good sixty hours into Bravely Default and have enjoyed it so far. However, now when I'm at (presumably the end but who the hell knows?), the game went from incredibly enjoyable to just stupid as fuck and I don't understand it.

Mild Spoilers; I won't get into specifics but certain vague sequences will be revealed

You run into what I like to call "Fuck you, I win" (FYIW) attacks. Those are those big attacks that bad guys can do that you can't do anything about. You're lucky when it can only happen to one party member but there are multiple enemies with the FYIW attacks where it hits everyone. You can't really do anything about it and just have to hope that the game doesn't just spam the FYIW attacks (which it will).

But you know what, that's JRPGs for you. I never fully understood it but JRPG fans eat that stuff up so I can let that go. However, now towards (what I sure as hell hope is) the end, I'm ready to throw away the game and just burn the sixty hours of my life I'll never get back.

Good job gang! You just did a big goal and we're all happy that you were able to kill all those bosses and their dreaded group FYIW attacks. Hey! Guess what? You did so well that we're going to make you do it all over again!

Good job gang! You just did your big goal for a second time and killed all those bosses with their dreaded group FYIW attacks. Hey! Guess what? You did so well the second time that we're going to make you do it all over again again!

...are you serious game? This is less an epic campaign of great length that people sang praises on and more like an episode of Teletubbies where the half hour long show is the same segment multiple times.

Hell, for all I know I get to do it again once I finally punch through these fucks for the third time in a row. With the highest rated equipment I can find and maxed out jobs, I'm not sure what else I can do here except bang my head against the bosses some more and hope that the FYIW attack is used sparingly.

The long JRPG feels more and more like filler every time I pick it up as I keep having to fight the same things over...and over....and over again. The story is alright (seriously guys, if awakening the crystals is bad, why don't one of you just tell me why instead of vague bullshit), it's filled with the "FYIW" enemies, and this "keep your 3DS on so that can you upgrade your attacks" BS is annoying as hell.

I see people sing this games praises constantly on this thread and no one ever seems to really go into WHY it's such a good game. Are people wanting/enjoying the problems I have with the game? Do you think the game is good enough that you love it despite that stuff? Is this a grand secret conspiracy designed to make me believe that I'm crazy for hating this game? What is it about this game that people love so much?

EDIT: Also just to clarify since most of this post is me complaining, the game is good (if not incredibly tedious with these stupid boss fights). However, I swear anytime I see people talking about it, it's like the second coming of Jesus Christ showed up and he brought super awesome holy donuts that taste like bacon but has the nutritional content of eating your veggies.

 

[thoughtwrangler]

I haven't played Bravely Default yet, but I encounter FYIW attacks in every WRPG I play. Like, every single one. Fallout 3 has them, Baldur's Gate I/II have them. Planescape: Torment has them, Mass Effect I and II have them. ME III probably does too, but I haven't played it yet.

In every single one of those games, I end up having to quickload, sometimes in rapid succession because I get one-shotted by a boss. (I'm looking at you, Harbinger.) Sometimes it's just a regular monster that's rather strong and that I didn't whittle down far enough as it's charging up its SUPER ATTACK.

Granted, these games aren't particularly grindy, so there's not much chance to over-level. But often I can have some top-of-the line equipment/loadouts and winning battles is just a matter of timing and luck. As it is in JRPG's with similar attacks in them.

Now, let's all hold hands and sing "We Are the World" because we're not so different after all.

Edit: Sorry, i was thinking "Fallout" but typed "Half Life." That's what I get for juggling windows.

 

[kris40k]

I don't know about Bravely Default specifically, but my suspicion is that ever since FFVII and the Ruby Weapon, its all just an escalating chain of who can fuck you over harder in JRPGs. Kind of some odd masochistic angle that some players love.

 

[Atmos Duality]

I don't know about Bravely Default specifically, but my suspicion is that ever since FFVII and the Ruby Weapon, its all just an escalating chain of who can fuck you over harder in JRPGs. Kind of some odd masochistic angle that some players love.

Some of the super-bosses were kinda interesting.
Ozma had a really nasty gimmick that could be worked around in a couple of ways.

But crap like, say Yiazmat, devolves into what I call "Squeenix Super-Boss Purgatory", where the challenge is not letting your damn eyes glaze over from the sheer tedium of repeating the same exact action sequences over and over for hours.

Giving a boss several million HP and %-insta-KO attacks doesn't really make the boss fights challenging in a good way; it just turns the whole affair into a routine.

 

[Sniper Team 4]

I don't know about Bravely Default specifically, but my suspicion is that ever since FFVII and the Ruby Weapon, its all just an escalating chain of who can fuck you over harder in JRPGs. Kind of some odd masochistic angle that some players love.

Some of the super-bosses were kinda interesting.
Ozma had a really nasty gimmick that could be worked around in a couple of ways.

But crap like, say Yiazmat, devolves into what I call "Squeenix Super-Boss Purgatory", where the challenge is not letting your damn eyes glaze over from the sheer tedium of repeating the same exact action sequences over and over for hours.

Giving a boss several million HP and %-insta-KO attacks doesn't really make the boss fights challenging in a good way; it just turns the whole affair into a routine.

Yiazmat...Is that the final hunt in XII? It is! That fight can go SUCK AND DIE! Because you're right: there was no challenge, no skill, no "find-the-weak-link-in-the-boss'-armor" in that fight. You set up the correct action sequences, and then you just watch. And watch. And watch. And when you get bored of staring at your scream for an hour with nothing really happening, you run away, save, turn the game off and continue tomorrow. That's a chore, not a fight. Even the ultimate boss fights in XIII and XIII-2 were better than that.

There's a difference between making a boss challenging, like Ruby, Emerald, Omega, and Ozma, and just giving them an HP pool that can soak up a nuclear bomb without flinching.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

What do you mean "attacks you can't do anything about", there's literally an ability that stops all damage for 2 turns, letting you get enough brave to curbstomp anything in one go. Jrpg fans just tend to optimize their approach of playing Jrpgs thus they never encounter difficulty.

BD is a good game cause it has a really interesting story that doesn't hold back on more serious themes such as child slavery and date-rape, deep gameplay with tons of options for tackling battle and endless customization and mix-matching.It also has an awesome soundtrack which maintains the original Japanese voiceovers on a portable game no less.

 

[Alhazred]

I think Bravely Default was praised so highly because it has one of the best interpretations of the Final Fantasy job system, and a take on the turn-based battle system that really allows it to shine.

I've been playing Final Fantasy Tactics A2 on the DS recently, and its staggering how many of the jobs are either stupidly OP or a complete letdown, whereas in Bravely almost all the jobs are useful (except for Merchant perhaps, however their money abilities do come in handy).

However, one should not allow this shining beacon of JRPG gameplay (especially after the bloody mess they made with FF13) to blind oneself to the myriad of stupid design choices elsewhere in the game. That atrocious groundhog day loop structure, which basically makes you do everything you've already done multiple times over, with almost no variation in the iterations. Even before you reach that point, the plot meanders and blunders, failing to reach the emotional highs of even earlier Final Fantasy games. Level design is lazy copypasta labyrinths. The playable cast range from decent (Edea) to bland (Tiz) to downright repulsive (fuck you, Ringabel). The game's best characters are actually the 21 job-granting minibosses, but as antagonists they are tragically sidelined by a traitor whose betrayal you will see coming a mile off and an unbelievably generic Big Bad.

It's not often I get actually angry enough at a game to write a rant about it; I think I may actually hate this game as much as Final Fantasy 13, which surprises me; but then I've grudgingly come to accept that game, and at least it didn't blatantly recycle content like this game does.

 

[Luminous_Umbra]

Personally, I don't get a lot of hatred for Bravely Default. Sure, it's not perfect, but it's so unbelievably good.

That atrocious groundhog day loop structure, which basically makes you do everything you've already done multiple times over, with almost no variation in the iterations. Even before you reach that point, the plot meanders and blunders, failing to reach the emotional highs of even earlier Final Fantasy games. Level design is lazy copypasta labyrinths. The playable cast range from decent (Edea) to bland (Tiz) to downright repulsive (fuck you, Ringabel). The game's best characters are actually the 21 job-granting minibosses, but as antagonists they are tragically sidelined by a traitor whose betrayal you will see coming a mile off and an unbelievably generic Big Bad.

1. No variation? Ok, some of the earlier cycles didn't have too much, but it changed radically the further you went, especially the last cycle, that was quite the challenge. And in terms of story, it changed a bunch between cycles as well.

2. Good lord, what are your standards for characters? Every time I see people call Tiz some variation of "bland", it makes me wonder how much attention they pay to the game. And while Rinagbel was quite pervy and a fairly sexist, especially initially, I wouldn't go so far as to call him "repulsive." Absolutely agree with the comment about the Big Bad though.

What do you mean "attacks you can't do anything about", there's literally an ability that stops all damage for 2 turns, letting you get enough brave to curbstomp anything in one go. Jrpg fans just tend to optimize their approach of playing Jrpgs thus they never encounter difficulty.

BD is a good game cause it has a really interesting story that doesn't hold back on more serious themes such as child slavery and date-rape, deep gameplay with tons of options for tackling battle and endless customization and mix-matching.It also has an awesome soundtrack which maintains the original Japanese voiceovers on a portable game no less.

Exactly. I will admit that there are some pretty difficult parts in the game, but the only one I would truly call unfair is the secret boss.

And honestly, the people complain far too much about the cycles. If you're so impatient, you can just beat the temple bosses and get through it in very little time. (I swear, people have no patience these days)

 

[tippy2k2]

What do you mean "attacks you can't do anything about", there's literally an ability that stops all damage for 2 turns, letting you get enough brave to curbstomp anything in one go. Jrpg fans just tend to optimize their approach of playing Jrpgs thus they never encounter difficulty.

BD is a good game cause it has a really interesting story that doesn't hold back on more serious themes such as child slavery and date-rape, deep gameplay with tons of options for tackling battle and endless customization and mix-matching.It also has an awesome soundtrack which maintains the original Japanese voiceovers on a portable game no less.

That sounds like even more fun; using the one broken ability to beat the game. Reminds me of the Victoria fight where all I did was cast reflect because the game did nothing but magic attacks on me which bounced right back; slightly more entertaining than getting curb-stomped by the FYIW attacks but just as boring as I just spam the one attack that the computer can't handle...basically a FYIW attack except my team is doing it instead.

As to the interesting story, I'd find it a lot more interesting if it didn't boil down to "We must awaken the crystals!"...now do it again!....and do it again! Then there's the interactions I have with all the big bad guys:

Bad Guy: "You can't awaken the crystals! It'll kill us all you fool!"
Party: "What do you mean it'll kill us all? Can you explain what you mean?"
Bad Guy: "WE FIGHT!!!"

Every bad guy in the game wants us to not awaken the crystal and not one of them actually says why...

Maybe once I get to the actual end (once I beat these four bosses for the third time in a row...) it'll all make sense but I feel like it's setting me up for this huge M Night Shyamalan-like twist where it turns out that awakening the crystals is a bad thing. The game drills it into your brain enough times that blindly taking the word of the Crystalology group might not be the best idea. Maybe one of these bad guys should actually just give me a reason to not awaken the crystal beyond vague whining about how bad it is.

 

[Luminous_Umbra]

Bad Guy: "You can't awaken the crystals! It'll kill us all you fool!"
Party: "What do you mean it'll kill us all? Can you explain what you mean?"
Bad Guy: "WE FIGHT!!!"

Except that literally only two bad guys in the entirety of the game actually says something like that first line.

Also, they do give you a reason, the first cycle simply felt that you would never believe them. (And honestly, I couldn't blame them. Who would believe the leader of an organization who was dedicated to stomping out the existence of one you belonged to?)

Also, you could boil down a lot of games to a simple one-liner, you aren't exactly proving anything by doing so.

 

[tippy2k2]

Bad Guy: "You can't awaken the crystals! It'll kill us all you fool!"
Party: "What do you mean it'll kill us all? Can you explain what you mean?"
Bad Guy: "WE FIGHT!!!"

Except that literally only two bad guys in the entirety of the game actually says something like that first line.

Also, they do give you a reason, the first cycle simply felt that you would never believe them. (And honestly, I couldn't blame them. Who would believe the leader of an organization who was dedicated to stomping out the existence of one you belonged to?)

Also, you could boil down a lot of games to a simple one-liner, you aren't exactly proving anything by doing so.

Before any of the loops, The Grand Marshall and Edea are talking. The Grand Marshall says stuff about how it would be bad to release the crystals because...reasons. Edea says "What are you talking about?" and he responds by trying to kill us. Doesn't attempt to explain anything; he just attempts to kill us when it was clear the party is curious as to what the hell he's talking about.

That vampire dude, The Sage, and Alternis all do a similar talk where they hint that they know WAAAAY more than they are letting on and then either attack us or stop talking about it like they decided that hinting about the crystals being bad would be an effective way of making us not awaken them like some passive-aggressive teenager.

Maybe it's just because it keeps happening right in a row with where I'm at but it's Bond-Villain stupidity. Like I said above, maybe it'll all make sense once the game ends but these stupid-ass temple fights are draining the desire to play.

Hell, that's actually my biggest issue I suppose now that I think about it. It's been sixty hours of a pretty good game being grounded to an absolute halt by the Bond Villains and the "Time to fight the FYIW boss for the third time in a row". It's Mass Effect 3 all over again...

 

[Byte2222]

Two thoughts I feel like sharing:

1. Why is the game so popular? Because it scratched a huge collective itch for a good old-school JRPG. It helps that, repetition aside, it's a pretty darn good old-school JRPG

2. Loads of bosses have cheap attacks and strategies. The player is given even more cheap attacks and strategies - just look at those spiritmaster abilities. If you make it to the final loop and the boss challenges therein you'll realise that anything goes in this type of game and you will need all the 'cheaty' tricks in your arsenal because the enemy has cheaty tricks as well

 

[SlumlordThanatos]

Step 1: Give everyone as much Speed gear as you can. Hermes Sandals for everyone, etc.

Step 2: Re-class everyone into Valkyrie.

Step 3: Teach everyone Jump.

Step 4: ???

Step 5: Profit!

If all of your characters are faster than the boss, then your party becomes effectively invincible if you do nothing but spam Jump attacks. It's how I killed the Adventurer bonus boss.

 

[seditary]

I have no idea what FYIW attacks you're talking about, I never came across any in my playthrough, but maybe my tolerance is just higher than yours since I'm a SMT veteran.

 

[Ignignokt]

As to the interesting story, I'd find it a lot more interesting if it didn't boil down to "We must awaken the crystals!"...now do it again!....and do it again! Then there's the interactions I have with all the big bad guys:

Bad Guy: "You can't awaken the crystals! It'll kill us all you fool!"
Party: "What do you mean it'll kill us all? Can you explain what you mean?"
Bad Guy: "WE FIGHT!!!"

Every bad guy in the game wants us to not awaken the crystal and not one of them actually says why...

That's what annoyed me most about the game. The whole plot falls apart if one of the bad guys is smart enough to just give the reason why they don't want them awakened.

 

[09philj]

I love Bravely Deafult. The story isn't anything much (Yeah, OK, it's completely stupid, and contains some some things I really didn't need to read... Sage Yulyana, I'm looking at you.), but at least it's not FFXIII. However,the battle and job systems entirely compensate for this deficiency. It's a perfect example of deep but not complex. I also didn't mind the repeated bosses. I wasn't thinking "Oh no, not those bosses again!" I was thinking more "YAY MOAR BATTLES!" It even, astoundingly, made me enjoy grinding. I don't normally pre-order games, but I'm making an exception for Bravely Second (And the next Fire Emblem).

 

[09philj]

dual wielding is a must,

Wait, what? How? I could never find any dual wield weapons that were better than one two handed weapon or a one handed weapon and shield.

 

[Tilly]

1. Why is the game so popular? Because it scratched a huge collective itch for a good old-school JRPG. It helps that, repetition aside, it's a pretty darn good old-school JRPG

I'd say that's a huge part of it. I enjoyed the game but thought the review scores were a bit too high. It's just been so long since we've had something that felt like those old Final Fantasies that a lot of people loved. That classic JRPG formula is a bit like the old Resident Evil formula in that it never really lost its magic, it just kinda faded out as new technology allowed people to try new things. So a lot of people naturally want it back.