Interesting spin on the traditional japanese theme indeed!SweetShark said:
I for one think that high school girls getting in to action with tentacle monsters with *** ****ing *********s and *****es.
How did The Escapist's culture change so much?
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I for one think that high school girls getting in to action with tentacle monsters with *** ****ing *********s and *****es.
Nah, I prefer.........wait for it........BUTT WRESTLING!!!!Pirate Of PC Master race said:
Above we can how HARD LIKE MY.....they train to be ready for the TOURMAMET OF BUTTS!!!!!!!!!
I REPEAT!!!!!
A TOURNAMET WHICH YOU USE YOUR ASS TO WIN YOUR OPPOMENTS!!!!!!!
Topics came up, people formed opinions about them, people are very passionate about their opinions and most people view admitting any flaw in what they think or what people like them think is admitting defeat, so they attack the other people saying how wrong they are, and those people view admitting any flaw in what they think or what people like them think is admitting defeat so they attack back even harder and then the first side attacks again.
It's a vicious cycle.
It's a vicious cycle.
Weeeeeell, that depends on what your goal was.Pr0 said:
Some folks just want to tear it all down. Not that they don't have some sense of reason for wanting that after the months of unabashed crap, but eh.
Me? I'm pretty sure we won. Leigh's out on her ass, ethics policies are in place for most sites, Ben Ku-SAYITTOMYFACE-chera has disclosures up, Polygon of all fuckin' places wrote a neutral article on the subject...
Hell, sounds like victory to me. Doesn't mean we all need to rest on our laurels or anything, since these people have proven they're not worthy of trust.
Will it ever really go away, is the question? I think, probably not, at least not for a very long time.LostGryphon said:
While it seems that the initial goals of GG may have been in the interest of things like disclosures and the betterment of Game's Journalism, which has been achieved, I think the broad sentiment among the movement as it is now - is in line with your final point. And has become a sort of watch dog group ensuring that disclosures and ethics are maintained.
But more importantly, is that the GG movement seems to also be a constant pushback response against "SJW" ideology which has been working it's way into the medium for years now. In that sense, GG is a political ideology of it's own. I think that's what is going to keep this movement going for quite a long time to come.
And I can't say I'm surprised that things have evolved in this direction. Once Politics began to be introduced into game discussion, it was only a matter of time before it really caught fire and grows into the battleground it is today - As is the case with anything else involving differing socio-political points of view.
Well, I am fine with that. It is essential part of any forums.erttheking said:
What I do detest is how it all got political.
And they only talk about 3 topics all the time. It's boring.
I for one do not find it interesting. Especially after music videos got their hands on it.SweetShark said:
My first thought is that gaming these days is just dumb, but that's not exactly fair. It's just, kind of the times we live in. Society, overall (in the US at least, since that is my only real frame of reference) is generally leaning center to center-left on social issues. Gays are more accepted than they've ever been, women are going to college (and universities, for you euro folk. In the US we use both basically interchangeably) more than ever before and are working their way into more and more traditionally male fields (like gaming, to keep on topic), science is more accepted and popular than it's ever been, and overall (once again, in the US) religious numbers are dropping. Any time there's a big shift in a society, there's always going to be a huge, loud, reactionary protest from the side that is afraid of change, or has a vested interest in keeping things they way they were. This is especially true when that side knows they are losing. That's why, in the US, we've seen religious fundamentalists and hardcore social conservatives get so much louder, and just... nastier. They know they're losing and they're scratching and clawing to accomplish whatever they can before they become completely irrelevant or have to substantially change their positions in order to avoid becoming so.megs1120 said:
In terms of the escapist... it's just going through a phase where it's not that great. Jim Sterling, Extra Credits, Moviebob, Miracle of Sound, and a bunch of other names I can't remember, they're just... gone. What does the escapist even have any more? Well, Critical Miss is usually fun, Yahtzee still graces us with two posts a week, and I like Experienced Points. But, besides those three, there really isn't much left.
Even that was never really a breach of ethics. I mean the irony is. I don't think they every claimed objectivity in the first place. Jeff well likely didn't get the memo so he reviewed it. Eidos unfortunately was rather clumsy in their handling of it.megs1120 said:
Oh no, men are talking about how they face a very real risk of sexism in an overzealous attempt to compensate for real and imagined disparities in society!? [/sarcasm]
Seriously, since when is just the discussion of prejudices and oppression any group faces considered anything other than forward thinking? We regularly see this in most social movements where a pendulum's initial aim is for equality but, being a pendulum, swings past it to the other side.
Whoever has decided that any advocacy for an evaluation of equality for men too is somehow magically wrong are themselves sexist for having decided that.
The argument that men have had it good does not men that all men are responsible for it or are deserving of being trivialized and passed over due to what they were born as.
Such a sad and trivial state that humanity rushes to inequality in the name of equality. It's fun to see people trivialize and dismiss it. But as with so many other causes this too will have it's moment of clarity when you look back and realize you were wrong and should have supported equality everywhere you saw inequality without deciding to only support it in some areas.
My guess is that in general we saw a consumer revolt where these sentiments boiled to the top. That's all. When sites publish articles about how all men are rapists at heart you should eventually expect this kind of culture change.
Seriously, since when is just the discussion of prejudices and oppression any group faces considered anything other than forward thinking? We regularly see this in most social movements where a pendulum's initial aim is for equality but, being a pendulum, swings past it to the other side.
Whoever has decided that any advocacy for an evaluation of equality for men too is somehow magically wrong are themselves sexist for having decided that.
The argument that men have had it good does not men that all men are responsible for it or are deserving of being trivialized and passed over due to what they were born as.
Such a sad and trivial state that humanity rushes to inequality in the name of equality. It's fun to see people trivialize and dismiss it. But as with so many other causes this too will have it's moment of clarity when you look back and realize you were wrong and should have supported equality everywhere you saw inequality without deciding to only support it in some areas.
My guess is that in general we saw a consumer revolt where these sentiments boiled to the top. That's all. When sites publish articles about how all men are rapists at heart you should eventually expect this kind of culture change.
It's a bit of a loaded question.
Who knows exactly why the escapist has become a certain camp and other sites like Polygon and Kotaku have become the opposite. Well in Polygon and Kotaku's cases it's because the people in charge intended them to be.
But as for why this whole phenomena has escalated, I think you're really asking the questions in the wrong places. This "side", as far as I can tell, only really formed in reaction to the overreach of the other side (or the realisation that there was another "side" that had formed and was coordinating in pushing a certain agenda). The censoring of disagreement and of various opinions has overwhelmingly happened in 1 direction. I don't think the far left folk who are doing this sort of thing are evil and need to be shut down. But they tend to think I am simply for disagreeing.
Who knows exactly why the escapist has become a certain camp and other sites like Polygon and Kotaku have become the opposite. Well in Polygon and Kotaku's cases it's because the people in charge intended them to be.
But as for why this whole phenomena has escalated, I think you're really asking the questions in the wrong places. This "side", as far as I can tell, only really formed in reaction to the overreach of the other side (or the realisation that there was another "side" that had formed and was coordinating in pushing a certain agenda). The censoring of disagreement and of various opinions has overwhelmingly happened in 1 direction. I don't think the far left folk who are doing this sort of thing are evil and need to be shut down. But they tend to think I am simply for disagreeing.
It took ~5 years for the truth to come out about Gerstman, there was also a mailing campaign again Eidos and you will find plenty of older gamers to remember and have personally boycotted them to this day. The number of people that knew and care were significantly smaller. You'd have to be very ignorant about the differences to compare those with the whole gamergate situation though.megs1120 said:
1) Those events (amongst others) contributed to the then current distrust of the medias. Gerstmann had Giantbomb up at that point which was thought to provide an alternative before GG and there were plenty of discussion about wtf practice elsewhere without being banned/deleted/removed.
2) The Streisand Effect was only present for gamergate as opposed to the other events (ask GGers and most will tell you that they learned about it via the massive graveyard on reddit via a post on totalbiscuit's very neutral position at the time). This is further amplified by the banning of all discussion of the topic in various site, supported by a certain member of GJP.
3) Only in the case of gamergate did the media and its detractors actively added fuel to the fire, using identity politic rhetoric as well as lies and slander. There's yet to be a single case of any harassment linked to GG proper, it was ppl in GG that identified the trolls and even a brazilian journalist that was actively harassing whathername and provided the information, yet the one who claimed to be harassed took no action. Claims of harassment by GG while using a database that's used to document harassment by trolls and aGG on people that identified with GG (the irony was saddening). The constant claim that gg is "right wing" when vast majority is "left wing" (and for the internationals, most were more left wing than the people who claimed that GG is right wing).
4) Multiple failures, willful negligence were observed and couldn't be justified. Former EiC of the escapist admitted that he approved the report on a false story on Wizardchan based on a sole source without fact checking since "signal boosting" is more important. The case of Brad Wardell's being falsely accused for someone playing a victim (the damage is still apparent to this day), there was even a court record to prove his innocence. Then the Rolling "UVA" Stone story happened, showing this same "signalling" behaviour. Behaviour that's endorsed by certain personalities and media that lied already, the famous "at least it shed light on the issue" and "stop being rape apologists and ableist". Some even tried to tied it to GG (which was mostly laughed out of discussions).
5) The constant attempt at trying to divide the people within the movement itself. Ie. Telling people to not use the gamergate tag. Yet... the ones asking about the ethics migrated away from the more wtf Burgers&Fries or whatever it was already, it didn't work, it's obvious a second name change wouldn't matter. The more aGGs tried to divide, the more GG became united.
6) Bigoted SJWs actively fanning the flames to push their agenda. The day I learned that upper-middle class white men and women know more about my struggles than myself! That I'm a race traitor (okay, that one isn't new since I already get called that by well off white university students that knows it all already). That I am a "sockpuppet" for "daring" to question their behaviour. I think this bit was what drew the non-westerners to GG as well, quite a number of C/J/K/P asians in fact.
There's a lot more, but these are the major differences I can recall off the top of my head.
I'd like to point out that the current controversy that is dominating this site (and gaming's corner of the internet as a whole) is not a traditional left vs right issue, but an authoritarian vs libertarian one, with one side being almost exclusively the authoritarian left, while the other is mostly, but not limited to, the libertarian left. And given how internet culture is, how desperate the authoritarian side is (ranging between "attack" and "you win" of the "they ignore you, they laugh at you, they attack you, you win" train of progress) and how industry has for the most part taken the side of the libertarian left, the fight in gaming is pretty much over at this point, just like how in the atheist community the largest battles are long past. (this whole online and over media cultural infighting in the left is referred to some as the Liberal/Progressive split, though I don't really understand the whole thing since in my country Liberals and Progressives have never been united in the first place).rcs619 said:
One thing to note, however, is that the US is by no stretch of the imagination left-leaning, and is by all metric firmly right leaning. This mistake seems to stem from three problems (though I could be wrong): First is that Americans don't seem to use the same scale for what is left wing and what is right wing that most of the developed world uses, due to the system as a whole being more right leaning. In most countries Obama and the democrats would be firmly and unambiguously running as members of the Conservative party.
Second is that there is a very widespread notion that Progressive Conservatives (who typically vote Democrat) are Liberal when they are in fact Conservative.
Third is the mistaken idea that support of equality is an inherently and exclusively Liberal trait, this despite polls in recent years showing the majority of both sides of American politics (both ideologically and along party lines) support equality for women and minorities, both ethic and orientation.
All of these factors (and probably others) on top of local superiority of numbers has caused a divide between the perception a lot of people have of the US and the reality.
Yahtzee being on the take is something I doubt. I wouldn't be surprised if it were true, but his job is to take apart games, even when he likes them. His trade is in comedy and nothing is funnier than taking a big steaming dump on a game for the tiniest flaw. Everything I've seen Yahtzee ever post matches up with the philosophies he's shared, even since before he joined the escapist. He might blow things out of proportion for a laugh, but I've never seen him break rank on his own opinions to give something he'd hate a positive review.MonsterCrit said:
More to the topic at hand. The arrivals of Yahtzee, Jim Sterling, and Movie Bob to name a few have brought in quite a few new people who weren't aware of The Escapist before them. When Bob and Jim departed they took a lot of their fan base with them. But the visibility of the site remains. So a lot of people still come here out of habit, or to indulge in light trolling.
Uh oh. Oh dear. The disheartening irony, dear OP, is that your thread is somehow conjuring the very arguments you were hoping to avoid.
If it's any consolation, I never consider myself part of a community and it helps maintain a distance from any preconceptions that can be automatically placed upon you by being so. I would recommend the same. The wild, rugged traveller merely observes as the self appointed tribes tear at each other's throats
If it's any consolation, I never consider myself part of a community and it helps maintain a distance from any preconceptions that can be automatically placed upon you by being so. I would recommend the same. The wild, rugged traveller merely observes as the self appointed tribes tear at each other's throats
Things that are topical change, people's interests and points of view change, and some folks actively seek changes of one form or another if out of boredom if nothing else. From what I've seen the main change in these forums is an increase in different points of view. R&P has gone from having its nose in the air to being a battleground, a new subforum was created to alleviate some of the pressure in R&P, and the other forums continue to focus on fun or weirdness. If it's a problem, fear not! The internet is a big place and has many gaming forums. If this one makes you sad either work to change it, seek out another, or create your own. For now I would recommend fully exploring the forums to see if it really has changed all that much, or if it's just the more controversial sections that have changed.
......it is not the same. Reason:Pirate Of PC Master race said:
There is also a Ass-Hurricane move, but I don't have a scan.
Ahh.. now , justa s someone can be bribed or influenced to say nice things about your product they can be likewise influenced to say naaaasty things about your competitor's products. See how that works. But I honestly don't believ Yahtzee is on the take buut I don't put enough trust in what he says for that to matter. I am from the old school internet where paranoia was the rule of thumb... and pinkie finger. and middle finger.KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:
Those are all valid points, yes. Obama is by no means a liberal, despite the repeated attempts by the far-right media to portray him as one. The best thing, arguably, that he's done is his healthcare reform, and even that is a neutered half-measure. It's given more people insurance yes, but it hasn't fixed the core issues that are bogging down healthcare in the US, or given us a public option that *all* citizens are entitled to, like just about any other developed country (personally, I favor a hybrid system, where you can choose between government or private healthcare. I feel like that is the best way to keep both sides honest). That's also why I am supremely disappointed that Hilary Clinton is probably going t be the democratic candidate. She's even more mainstream, don't rock the boat, conservative democrat than Obama was.Zontar said:
The problem in the US is that there isn't room for nuance in politics. It's all hyper-polarized, and rigged in such a way that you either have to vote one way or the other. It's especially bad for actual conservatives because their party have been hijacked by maniacs who would rather pander to big business, people who think the government is one step away from sending them concentration camps, or the furthest religious right than normal people with normal issues. The religious part is what bothers me the most, really. There's nothing scarier than religion in politics, and having *senators* talking on the floor of the *senate* about how climate change can't be real because the bible says only God can bring about the end of the world, so humans could never do it themselves, is terrifying to me.
And yes, I meant that the US is slowly moving center to center-left on social issues by its own standards. By Canadian or European standards we're still very, very conservative and prudish in comparison. The US general population, I mean. Congress is a different matter altogether, and does not actually represent what the people, and the polls, show. They basically do whatever they (or their donors) want, with zero accountability because their home districts are gerrymandered in such a way that no one from the opposing party can *ever* be elected. You can see some of that effect in the past few House races. Democratic candidates earned more total votes nationwide, but republicans picked up more seats overall, because of the way the congressional districts have been twisted and changed.
I'm not against arguments, if anything, I wanted some of that old-fashioned Escapist debate.Xsjadoblayde said:
I'm glad we're all being civil, even though a lot of us might disagree, and it makes me feel a lot better about the site than I had felt after the reaction I got from my friend on facebook.
Personally, I come down on the SJW side of things, but I don't have any problem with Gamergaters or conservatives who are civil and sincere in their beliefs. Being disagreed with isn't an attack, only attacks are attacks, and that hasn't happened, at least not in this thread, so I'm happy.