How did you get that M-rated game?
- Thread starter Nathaniel Grey
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Played Doom, Mortal Kombat, Duke Nukem, GTA. I think the only controversial game from the 90's I didn't play when I was a kid was Carmageddon.
Dad was a gamer and had no trouble introducing me to the concept that this was all fantasy, I don't see how cod and stuff is different today other than the fact I wasn't getting into multiplayer matches or annoying anyone back then. Because while I was playing all this I was also watching Terminator, Robocop and other classics. Family was pretty liberal about it as long as I realized it was all fiction, which really most kids do.
I frankly don't see the point in the ESRB, these games are not corrupting anyone.
Dad was a gamer and had no trouble introducing me to the concept that this was all fantasy, I don't see how cod and stuff is different today other than the fact I wasn't getting into multiplayer matches or annoying anyone back then. Because while I was playing all this I was also watching Terminator, Robocop and other classics. Family was pretty liberal about it as long as I realized it was all fiction, which really most kids do.
I frankly don't see the point in the ESRB, these games are not corrupting anyone.
I used to think that way - but now I have three kids and my attitude has changed somewhat. Three things are apparent to me:Magix said:
Firstly - given the choice, most children will play games and watch content non-stop and never do anything else. It's like gorging on sugary foods. The young cannot make sensible decisions about long-term health and well-being (honestly a lot of adults cannot either). Before the age of 25, most humans have not completed the formation of their risk-taking and decision-making faculties. Young children (and even teenagers) would benefit from an older person to help them make better choices about exercise and skills/interests outside of consumption of digital media.
Secondly - immediately after playing games with violent/aggressive content, my kids' behaviour changes. They are more prone to argument, excitable, and moody. The amplitude of these changes is linked to the type and pace of game. A button masher like "Castle Crashers" has a noticeably greater impact than a slow building game like "Minecraft". In bursts, the visible effects are relatively short-lived, but you do wonder if longer-term exposure will have some kind of impact. I do not believe that playing a game depicting guns will make someone more likely to pick up a real one and start shooting people - I am somewhat more concerned that it may have a more subtle, but nonetheless adverse impact on mental health. After a long play session I am more disconnected from people and anti-social, more prone to insomnia and if I am depressed, it definitely hinders any recovery.
Thirdly - the young are curious about sex and swap stories and information in the playground. Many of them have older brothers and sisters and also parents who have more liberal attitudes to sex. Also they have increasingly access to mobile data devices and ubiquitous Internet access. Even so - misinformation is rife - access to pornography has never been easier.
Noting these observations (I hesitate to call them facts) - as a parent you have to set down rules about acceptable duration of play and acceptable type of content for a given child/age. I don't know any parent who does not do this - although the nature and extent of the rules varies from household to household.
For myself and my own family, I am more concerned about sexual content through media other than games. Honestly in-game depiction of sex is tame and usually in some kind of narrative context compared to some easily accessible web-sites. I have a deep desire that my kids learn about sex and sexuality from my wife and I, rather than from kids in the playground, some dubious pornographic web-site or anonymous contributor to a bulletin board or chat room.
I am more concerned about in-game and associated cyber-bullying than I am about exposure to other bad language, but I am more bothered by bad language than I am about playing game with guns and soldiers. Multiplayer games with comms/chat is a risk area for me. I have seen the effects of bullying online and it can lead to depression, self-harm and suicide in some cases.
Of all of these factors I am least bothered by violent acts in games. However I think the impact of violence in games is varied by several factors and I put these up for debate:
- distance: RTS games are played "at a distance" from visceral action and so have less of an impact
- fidelity and realism: Modern high-definition graphics and attempts at realism combine for greater impact
- choice: Content where violence is the first/only resort have greater impact than one where other play styles are possible
- humanity: The less human the enemy, the less the impact
- control: Games where you press the trigger/button to attack have more impact that games of position where the units/character attacks for you.
- sound: Effective use of sounds can create strong emotional responses in people - crying, screams, pleas for help
- language: Language can be a strong indicator for realism
So, for example, an RTS like "Dawn of War" is played at a distance against an inhuman enemy and it's clearly high-fantasy with martial music and ridiculous language with few swear words. However, violence is the only option and it is over-the-top gory. You can pause the action and adopt a slow pace. The units fight for you. I let my eight year old play this.
Skyrim is First-person/third person and so is "close" with a realistic style (albeit fantastical), enemies are often humanoid - although many are dehumanised (undead/monsters) - there is a wide degree of freedom of play style (you have to work very hard not to kill anything). Sound is often used to evoke fear in a player - language is clean, as far as I can tell. I let my ten year old play this with some agreements about whether the assassins guild is an appropriate job.
Battlefield 3 is first-person with a realistic style against obviously human enemies with little/no dehumanisation (full-face helmets or balaclavas). Violence is the only option. Sound is explosive and dramatic and intense. Language is foul with a rich vocabulary of swear words and phrases. Multiplayer is the best way to play. I won't consider this for a good number of years yet.
It's difficult to know what the right age to allow access to these things. With adult involvement and the right kind of relationship with your kids, almost anything can be used as a positive life lesson. However, unobserved and lengthy play time with games outside of the recommended age range is risky and not making best use of games as a way of building a relationship with your children.
I didn't get to play any games when I was a kid, apart from when I went to a friend's house and played theirs 
As for the future, I won't be having kids myself but I fully expect to look after nieces/nephews/godchildren at some point. In that case I'd run things past the parents first, but generally I'd let them play M rated games once they hit their teens. Like 14 or 15, but it would very much depend on the game and the kid. Different kids can cope with things differently, and I'd definitely have to have checked the game out myself before letting a kid play it.
Despite them not understanding games, that's the attitude my parents had with films when I was growing up and I think it's a good one. I saw plenty of 15 and 18 rated films way before I met the age requirements, but my parents always had a good idea what they were letting me watch, and some things remained off-limits, at least temporarily. It was a decent system, and I was hardly ever barred from seeing something I really wanted to see (I was never into really hardcore horror films or whatever). My parents were pretty good judges of my maturity.
Obviously once someone hits 16 and especially 17 it's ridiculous to police their entertainment in anything other than the most extreme circumstances though. I class most people that age as young adults rather than kids.
As for the future, I won't be having kids myself but I fully expect to look after nieces/nephews/godchildren at some point. In that case I'd run things past the parents first, but generally I'd let them play M rated games once they hit their teens. Like 14 or 15, but it would very much depend on the game and the kid. Different kids can cope with things differently, and I'd definitely have to have checked the game out myself before letting a kid play it.
Despite them not understanding games, that's the attitude my parents had with films when I was growing up and I think it's a good one. I saw plenty of 15 and 18 rated films way before I met the age requirements, but my parents always had a good idea what they were letting me watch, and some things remained off-limits, at least temporarily. It was a decent system, and I was hardly ever barred from seeing something I really wanted to see (I was never into really hardcore horror films or whatever). My parents were pretty good judges of my maturity.
Obviously once someone hits 16 and especially 17 it's ridiculous to police their entertainment in anything other than the most extreme circumstances though. I class most people that age as young adults rather than kids.
1- MK2 for SNES. Never new what they bought me.
2- No, I don't think so.
3- I would play with him. Once he is old enough to play on his own, I would advice him on what games to play. M is a relatively too restrictive label; M games can be moved to T with a few little changes. So, I don't think you can't be a teenager and play most of them.
2- No, I don't think so.
3- I would play with him. Once he is old enough to play on his own, I would advice him on what games to play. M is a relatively too restrictive label; M games can be moved to T with a few little changes. So, I don't think you can't be a teenager and play most of them.
Either bought them myself, because our age restrictions aren't legaly binding - they're just guidelines or my father bought them for me.
He plays videogames himself so he always knew what he bought me.
The first game two games - which i bought next to each other - were Quake 3 and Halflife, which i got around the age of 10.
He plays videogames himself so he always knew what he bought me.
The first game two games - which i bought next to each other - were Quake 3 and Halflife, which i got around the age of 10.
I'm 32, I don't even remember games having ratings back before I turned 18. So there, It's pretty simple.
But if it makes you feel any better I got to watch Hellraiser and Alien when I was 12.
But if it makes you feel any better I got to watch Hellraiser and Alien when I was 12.
1. I remember I used to watch gameplay of the old Devil May Cry games when I was younger. I loved the style, Dante, and the whole premise of them. I was like, 13, so I wasn't allowed to play Rated M games yet at the time. I managed to show my mom gameplay and convinced her to let me buy it the next time we went to a Best Buy. I actually got the collectors edition for less money then the regular edition.
2. I remember clearly Dante's mission after beating the giant fire creature. His whole monologue and giggling like an idiot. I was super into that game when I was a little kid. That's what convinced my parents I was more mature witmy games (not the giggling) and they bought me a three game set of the PS2 originals.
3. How will I handle his? Whenever age I think my child will be ready is the day I let them try a rated M game. It doesn't matter to me.
2. I remember clearly Dante's mission after beating the giant fire creature. His whole monologue and giggling like an idiot. I was super into that game when I was a little kid. That's what convinced my parents I was more mature witmy games (not the giggling) and they bought me a three game set of the PS2 originals.
3. How will I handle his? Whenever age I think my child will be ready is the day I let them try a rated M game. It doesn't matter to me.
I remember going to my cousin's bedroom and I'd watch him blast through the Resident Evil games when I was seven or eight. Yeah, I jumped a bit, but I also remember him mocking the zombies and we'd have fun; he later got me Resident Evil 3, a game which I've always had a soft spot for (and made me frown with the movie's interpretation of Nemesis).
The first game I bought which was M-rated; I think I was maybe 14 when Vice City came out, and I was waiting outside of Woolworth's with a group of men and I was thinking "There is no way in hell I'm going to not get ID checked". I had a look around and I noticed that across the street in WHSmith they were selling games 2 for £60 quid. I then told one of the older fellows that we could use this deal to get two copies of GTA, and each of us would save £10. He did so and I got a copy.
Amusingly, my mother knows nothing about video games (she tries, though) and she actually let me decide what is and is not appropriate for him as I know video games. My rule is this; is there context for the violence? I have no problem with God of War or Skyrim or Grand Theft Auto, as they're basically so cartoony or they're fantasy or you're the big hero to slay the monsters.
But when he wanted Manhunt, I simply put my food down on that regardless of what his friends said. If he wants something like that, he can go to his friend's house and play it there like I had to do.
The first game I bought which was M-rated; I think I was maybe 14 when Vice City came out, and I was waiting outside of Woolworth's with a group of men and I was thinking "There is no way in hell I'm going to not get ID checked". I had a look around and I noticed that across the street in WHSmith they were selling games 2 for £60 quid. I then told one of the older fellows that we could use this deal to get two copies of GTA, and each of us would save £10. He did so and I got a copy.
Amusingly, my mother knows nothing about video games (she tries, though) and she actually let me decide what is and is not appropriate for him as I know video games. My rule is this; is there context for the violence? I have no problem with God of War or Skyrim or Grand Theft Auto, as they're basically so cartoony or they're fantasy or you're the big hero to slay the monsters.
But when he wanted Manhunt, I simply put my food down on that regardless of what his friends said. If he wants something like that, he can go to his friend's house and play it there like I had to do.
Well...there really isn't such a thing as "a game you aren't supposed to play". It's all 100% subjective. That being said, when I was at least 5, I played a lot of Turok and Turok 2, probably some of the goriest games on the N64. Seriously, in Turok 2 (one of my favorite games of all time) you can walk up to an enemy, and slice their head off, blow it off with many of the weapons, or burrow into their skull with a bore weapon. Did I end up scarred for life and messed up in the head? No. I'm just as messed up as everyone else, in that I'm a person left to my own devices. I do what I think is right.
As for answering your actual questions:
1. My parents bought them. When I was younger, my parents only bought me specifically games within my age range, however my father let me play most games he had anyway.
2. No, they did not. I don't have any trauma, or behavior issues. Why? Because I didn't have the mental problems to begin with. The games themselves aren't harmful, they only act as a trigger for those that are already having problems.
3. If I feel like I know my childs behavior well enough, and they have a strong interest, I don't have a problem with letting them play violent video games, even if they have gore. This does not make me a bad parent, nor should anyone think that way. If I feel my child can't handle it, possibly because they've displayed some sort of behavioral instabilities to begin with, then I will carefully decide whether or not I feel they should play the game.
The crucial difference here is, you used an online shooter as your example. It's not secret that most kids have terrible communication skills. I feel if they are under 14, they shouldn't have a mic to play those games. That's the real problem here, isn't it? You're playing your online game, and then you hear the voice of an 11 year old, and it bothers you someone that young is playing with you (and maybe beating you). Other than that, I see no problem.
As for answering your actual questions:
1. My parents bought them. When I was younger, my parents only bought me specifically games within my age range, however my father let me play most games he had anyway.
2. No, they did not. I don't have any trauma, or behavior issues. Why? Because I didn't have the mental problems to begin with. The games themselves aren't harmful, they only act as a trigger for those that are already having problems.
3. If I feel like I know my childs behavior well enough, and they have a strong interest, I don't have a problem with letting them play violent video games, even if they have gore. This does not make me a bad parent, nor should anyone think that way. If I feel my child can't handle it, possibly because they've displayed some sort of behavioral instabilities to begin with, then I will carefully decide whether or not I feel they should play the game.
The crucial difference here is, you used an online shooter as your example. It's not secret that most kids have terrible communication skills. I feel if they are under 14, they shouldn't have a mic to play those games. That's the real problem here, isn't it? You're playing your online game, and then you hear the voice of an 11 year old, and it bothers you someone that young is playing with you (and maybe beating you). Other than that, I see no problem.
I don't think I've actually played any M-rated games before I turned 18... My parents weren't strict at all, so I could probably get away with anything. Maybe some of the older games, like Wolfenstein 3D, which I played when I was a wee lad. But my parents didn't care.
The one time my mom seemed to care was when I was in my room, playing Baldur's Gate with speakers turned up quite high. I was near the lighthouse, killing off some Sirines. They give an erotic-sounding sigh when they die. I think my sister thought I was watching porn and told my mom. One stern question and short answer later it was over.
So that's it for 1 and 2. As for 3... I'll probably keep a "no tolerance" policy until my kids turn 13 or around that, and then decide on a case-by-case basis... I'm assuming I will still be a gamer myself.
The one time my mom seemed to care was when I was in my room, playing Baldur's Gate with speakers turned up quite high. I was near the lighthouse, killing off some Sirines. They give an erotic-sounding sigh when they die. I think my sister thought I was watching porn and told my mom. One stern question and short answer later it was over.
So that's it for 1 and 2. As for 3... I'll probably keep a "no tolerance" policy until my kids turn 13 or around that, and then decide on a case-by-case basis... I'm assuming I will still be a gamer myself.
I'm a little old to have had problems with this (34)...but my parents wouldn't have given a shit about any ratings as long as it kept me quiet and out of their way. I have yet to play ANY game that warrants any special attention other than for language and have on the odd occasion bought games for under 16's because i know that game is overrated and the shop staff over-zealous in their approach. I was watching violent horror films long before i got to play violent computer games so my perception of the subject is tilted by that. Compared to being beaten by my fuckwit of a father for no good reason the violence in computer games isn't violent in the slightest
I think the first M-rated games I played was Doom, Wolfenstein, Rise of the Triads and Duke Nukem 3D at about the age of 6-7. Parents didn't care "It's probably that mario thingy again" <-- while doing other things. Sometimes it's wonderful to have an older gaming brother.
Then again, I was also watching plenty of action movies from an early age, nothing overly brutal, mainly James Bond and the kind of silly ones from the 80's.
I turned out just fine. Well, of course I say that. Chances are no people in this thread will openly say "I developed severe psychosis and went on a killing spree".
Then again, I was also watching plenty of action movies from an early age, nothing overly brutal, mainly James Bond and the kind of silly ones from the 80's.
I turned out just fine. Well, of course I say that. Chances are no people in this thread will openly say "I developed severe psychosis and went on a killing spree".
I asked for it, and I got it.
The determinate factor for my parents was price more than content, but suffice to say, I never had an interest in horror games.
The only times where I asked my parents to buy an M rated game for me was CoD MW 2 and CoD Black Ops.
They didn't have any effect on my personality really, I wasn't overly aggressive or rude, and the M rating felt a bit...
Well, not token, but a bit of an exaggeration.
Also, as a side note: the very first proper game I played was True Crime: Streets of LA.
The determinate factor for my parents was price more than content, but suffice to say, I never had an interest in horror games.
The only times where I asked my parents to buy an M rated game for me was CoD MW 2 and CoD Black Ops.
They didn't have any effect on my personality really, I wasn't overly aggressive or rude, and the M rating felt a bit...
Well, not token, but a bit of an exaggeration.
Also, as a side note: the very first proper game I played was True Crime: Streets of LA.
My way of viewing the age rating is kinda bias, I'm Australian and apparently a hd rerelease of Fable TLC should be the same classification as Gta V, R18.
Divorced parents with different views, dad bought me my first MA15 game at the age of 13, fallout 3 and boy what a way to start. I'd previously loved oblivion which is only M recommended not required.
Mum bought me fable 3 at 14 due to me already paying off the preorder before the classification dropped, to be fair by that stage I looked old enough that nobody asked my age.
Silly Australian classification system.
Fable got R18 for "Sexual activity related to incentives and rewards", which is a demon door that gives you a pimp hat if you have slept with a certain number of women I believe.
Divorced parents with different views, dad bought me my first MA15 game at the age of 13, fallout 3 and boy what a way to start. I'd previously loved oblivion which is only M recommended not required.
Mum bought me fable 3 at 14 due to me already paying off the preorder before the classification dropped, to be fair by that stage I looked old enough that nobody asked my age.
Silly Australian classification system.
Fable got R18 for "Sexual activity related to incentives and rewards", which is a demon door that gives you a pimp hat if you have slept with a certain number of women I believe.
I got the games by asking for them. My parents knew well enough what GTA was, what Duke Nukem 3D was etc... but they didn't exhibit any reluctance that I recall.
How will I deal with it? If my hypothetical ten year old asks to play the future equivalent of The Witcher, GTA or something like Senran Kagura, I'll buy it for them without hesitation. And I'll hand it over when I have an hour or two to supervise their first foray into that sort of content.
How will I deal with it? If my hypothetical ten year old asks to play the future equivalent of The Witcher, GTA or something like Senran Kagura, I'll buy it for them without hesitation. And I'll hand it over when I have an hour or two to supervise their first foray into that sort of content.
My parents were young and poor. I received a SNES from my grandparents as a birthday present and it became a cheap babysitter for my parents at the time. It sounds bad, but they were young and I still turned out alright. Eventually when I started showing interest in mature titles, I talked about the games with my parents and they made the judgement that I was mature enough to play the games. When I become a parent I will probably handle the situation in a similar fashion. I know games and gaming, it is highly unlikely that my kids would be able to play mature games without me noticing. I'll probably be the one purchasing these games for them if I deem them mature enough to handle the content.
I had a few fairly mature games back in the day, all bought by my parents. I'm not sure if they were all rated, but I had MK2, MK3, Aliens 3, and Jurassic Park for Genesis. We also had Duke Nukem 3D and Primal Rampage for PC. I do remember trying to play Doom at my uncle's house, but not being allowed to.