how do American and British universities compare?

[lucaf]

I guess I should start by saying I am NOT looking to start an argument about which are better. no, what I wanted to compare were two main things: fees and admissions. I live in England and will be applying to university in a few months, and while looking into it I began to see there appeared to be quite a big difference.

for a start, fees. in England there has been a lot of controversy over the recent fee hike, taking the maximum they can charge up to £9000 (and something) per year for tuition fees. this is because of government spending cuts due to the recession, and the government is still actually subsidizing a lot of the cost. so how much does it cost in the US 9or other countries)? especially since america tends to have less handouts, I would have assumed it is less subsidizes (no idea if that is true)

secondly, admissions. in the UK we have UCAS, a system that you submit your grades, references and personal statement, which it then sends to the universities you have chosen, who then reply through UCAS whether or not you are accepted or have an interview. does america have a similar system, or do you need to apply individually? also, do they ask for personal statements and interviews (or does it vary between uni)? I also take it that course selection works differently, since you take majors and minors, something that doesnt really happen over here

thanks for bothering to read that, I seem to have typed more than I intended

 

[aba1]

I guess since I am Canadian I don't really get a say here huh ahh well off I go


I pay $3500 a year for school wooo go Canada!

 

[Harkonnen64]

I'll become a college sophomore here in less than a month, and I'll tell you about our American system:

The fees: Every country seems to be in a depression right now, the US included. Apparently, there was a bit of a price hike this year, but given I lost a scholarship or two and have to pay more money anyways, it's hard for me to tell, but the total cost for me this semester is $6,507.50 (USD, obviously) up from about $3,500.

As for admissions, the process is similar with regards to grades/transcripts being sent off. As for personal statements and interviews, I don't recall there being much of one, at least for the college I'm going to. I think all I had to do, if anything, was write an obligatory paragraph while paying the initial admission fee online. I'm not even sure they read them.

As for majors and minors: The idea behind college degrees here is that you are learning a specialized field, so that when you graduate you can either go into an industry related to your chosen major or go on into a graduate program. You don't have to chose a major immediately, in fact, you probably shouldn't until at least your second year.

About half the classes you take are "basics" (English, Math, Science, etc.) and the other half relate to your major. While you can take classes in almost any order, it's best to take the basics first and draw inspiration for what major you want based on the basics you are good at/like.

That leaves minors. While some of the more stringent degrees take up so many classes that there isn't any time or need for a minor, most degree allow enough flexibility to have one. Your minor can be anything you want, but many people tend to take one that compliments their intended job/major (i.e. a Computer Science major wanting to make video games may take Creative Writing as a minor). Ultimately though, the minor really doesn't mean much in comparison to your major (at least in employers' eyes).

Hope this gives you an idea of how American universities/colleges work.

 

[NickCaligo42]

1 - Tuition in the United States is pretty huge. Think of around $25,000-$50,000 (£15,000-£30,000) a year for school, give or take a few thousand depending on the state and the clout. I'll note that $25,000 is pretty goddamned cheap for a private university. Public universities and community colleges are a lot easier.

Schools find every way they can to hike up more charges; on-campus housing and food are notoriously overpriced in the majority of universities, with many dorm rooms having the walking space of a closet and dorm food just generally being not worth the price. Depending on where you go you may or may not get air conditioning; my undergrad school offered no dorms with such a luxury.

If you're secure enough with your funding (IE not getting it all from the school) you can do off-campus housing and food instead, which saves a lot of money and equates to a much higher standard of living but can lack convenience since it ain't close to campus transportation or locations and can put you in a bad neighborhood if you're not careful. There's heavy dependence on loans and a big competitive drive for scholarships in order to subsidize students' academic careers. It's an institution in itself over here, and the help that scholarships and financial aid can give makes all the difference, decreasing tens of thousands of dollars of tuition to a mere couple thousand or occasionally completely negate tuition altogether. There's always a few students on a "free ride."

Community colleges offer a lot of subsidy to people who're from inside their towns; usually there's a deal that you go to school either free or for only a couple thousand a year if you come from a high school within the same district. They also offer the convenient alternative of "live with your goddamned parents" as opposed to using campus housing or finding an apartment, setting the cost of housing to practically zero.

2 - The process of applying to colleges is a little different... you send a transcript, test scores (SAT/ACT), a resume, and a cover letter. Your high school has to send transcripts and test scores, and they'll send test scores to up to three-to-five colleges of your choice. Otherwise, everything is manually done; you track down the mailbox for the college of your choice and mail all that info yourself. Some colleges have recruiting agents or admissions counselors to help you through the process if they want you badly enough.

Sometimes they give a crap about the resume, wanting some community service or extracurricular activities on record, in which case the shy and the apathetic get the boot immediately. They always want personal statements, but may or may not ask for an interview depending on the clout of the college involved. Places like Stanford, Harvard, or Yale probably don't tie their shoes without interviewing the shoemaker, for example, but more common state universities like Michigan State University don't ask for an interview at all, they'll just go off the information you sent.

Nevertheless, it's an unspoken rule that you have to make it a point to get off your ass and pay a visit to the college you're trying to get into, especially if it has any sense of exclusivity whatsoever or if you're trying to get into a special program. A lot can hang on how well you schmooze up to influential administration and faculty, and they can often point you at resources and scholarships you wouldn't otherwise know about.

Let's see... I feel like I'm forgetting something... Anyone else from the States wanna chime in on what an anal, ridiculous process college is here? The whole point I want to make is that the entire application and acceptance process is an institution in this country. Colleges don't take it half as seriously as I make it out, I get the sense that most of them aren't picky and that most of this is from insane parents pressuring their kids and thinking college admission is competitive, but there's enough fairly exclusive schools and stories of heartbreak and rejection that it's become a part of our culture...

 

[Dags90]

My yearly costs are less at a public university in the states than £9,000. My yearly tuition is about $12,000 (£7,500). Private universities are obviously much more expensive, but you don't have to go to one.

Size is a big difference. State universities get pretty large in the U.S. Often with multiple campuses. You have to apply yourself, there's usually a $50 or so fee, too.

Oh, and British people talk funny, obviously.

 

[lucaf]

I guess since I am Canadian I don't really get a say here huh ahh well off I go


I pay $3500 a year for school wooo go Canada!

curse you canada! and I did say "or other countries in the OP, I was just more interested in how the american system works. I have a friend moving there soon.


and from

the total cost for me this semester is $6,507.50 (USD, obviously) up from about $3,500.

and

Think of around $25,000-$50,000 (£15,000-£30,000) a year for school, give or take a few thousand depending on the state and the clout. I'll note that $25,000 is pretty goddamned cheap for a private university. Public universities and community colleges are a lot easier.

I take it that some universities are completely private in america? is there much of a difference between them and public ones? If I was paying 50 grand a year I would expect it to be a hell of a lot better. in the UK while all universities are private, the fees are subsidized so that the actual student only pays up to £9000 a year.

and cheers for the admissions information. it seems a bit more complex over there since you don't have a centralized UCAS type thing, but it does have some benefits. I need to send the same personal statement to all the universities I apply for, so I wouldn't be ale to apply for different subjects at different places (unless the subjects are closely related) or tailor the statement for the uni

 

[lucaf]

Size is a big difference. State universities get pretty large in the U.S. Often with multiple campuses. You have to apply yourself, there's usually a $50 or so fee, too.

how much bigger can they be? they are pretty large over here too. and I don't THINK UCAS application has a fee, but I may be wrong

 

[Dags90]

how much bigger can they be? they are pretty large over here too. and I don't THINK UCAS application has a fee, but I may be wrong

The larger campuses have ~40-60,000 students. The largest university campus in the UK approaches 40,000. If you consider university systems as one university (like University of London/State University system of California), the difference is even more extreme. The University of London system has a bit over 100,000 students, but several state university systems have over 400,000 students.

It depends on what private university you go to, and for what program. A liberal arts education without law school from a private university is still a liberal arts degree. And you can spend a fair amount on tuition at a public school if you go to one which is out of state.

 

[lucaf]

how much bigger can they be? they are pretty large over here too. and I don't THINK UCAS application has a fee, but I may be wrong

The larger campuses have ~40-60,000 students. The largest university campus in the UK approaches 40,000. If you consider university systems as one university (like University of London/State University system of California), the difference is even more extreme. The University of London system has a bit over 100,000 students, but several state university systems have over 400,000 students.

It depends on what private university you go to, and for what program. A liberal arts education without law school from a private university is still a liberal arts degree. And you can spend a fair amount on tuition at a public school if you go to one which is out of state.

fair enough, although I don't think that UCL would be a good comparison to the University system of California, since as a state California is much bigger than London

 

[lucaf]

Keep in mind that the prices quoted above for Canadian and US Public Universities are probably very misleading.

Most state/provincially funded schools receive subsidies for students that meet the criteria of being a resident. International students often pay much higher fees to compensate for the lack of government funding.

Private schools are less likely to differentiate on pricing.

I was thinking along the lines of prices with government assistance anyway, since that is what we have here and I am not certain what the costs are without it

 

[lucaf]

how much bigger can they be? they are pretty large over here too. and I don't THINK UCAS application has a fee, but I may be wrong

The larger campuses have ~40-60,000 students. The largest university campus in the UK approaches 40,000. If you consider university systems as one university (like University of London/State University system of California), the difference is even more extreme. The University of London system has a bit over 100,000 students, but several state university systems have over 400,000 students.

It depends on what private university you go to, and for what program. A liberal arts education without law school from a private university is still a liberal arts degree. And you can spend a fair amount on tuition at a public school if you go to one which is out of state.

fair enough, although I don't think that UCL would be a good comparison to the University system of California, since as a state California is much bigger than London

How about we compare to Toronto, Ontario? Three major Universities:

Ryerson - 32,000
York - 53,000
UofT - 75,000

All Ontario Universities have an application fee, even the baby ones.

wow, 75000? that must be huge! I am planning to go Nottingham, which I think is one of the UKs largest and that is barely over 40,000

 

[NickCaligo42]

I take it that some universities are completely private in america? is there much of a difference between them and public ones? If I was paying 50 grand a year I would expect it to be a hell of a lot better. in the UK while all universities are private, the fees are subsidized so that the actual student only pays up to £9000 a year.

My tuition is at $9000 per quarter right now, though I've got enough scholarships that I'm paying more along the lines of $3000 per quarter. Yeah, there's a good number of schools that are completely private, and the advantages... are debatable.

In terms of actual knowledge base, it doesn't really make a difference. If you want to learn something, you're going to learn it. If you want to study something, nothing is to stop you from scouring the internet, libraries, and textbooks for information on the subject of your choice. A good teacher makes a big difference, and community colleges can offer folks who know their craft just as easily as a big private institution can. Government grants can do a lot to build up resources and equipment for public programs, too.

But, that's not always everything, is it? Yes, you can learn something like animation just as well at a community college or a state university as you can somewhere like Full Sail University, a private school in Florida that charges over $75,000 a year. Public schools, with few exceptions, aren't going to have their connections in the entertainment industry, though. What are the exceptions? That's a good question (SCAD), but they do exist, and they don't charge as much...

That's part of the whole institution of looking for a school here. You need to shop around to both avoid getting ripped off and find someplace that's worth the money and that will actually get you placed in the field you're trying to get work in. More than that, though, it's also a matter of finding a place where you feel like you fit. Different schools have such wildly different cultures it's staggering.

Keep in mind that the prices quoted above for Canadian and US Public Universities are probably very misleading.

Most state/provincially funded schools receive subsidies for students that meet the criteria of being a resident. International students often pay much higher fees to compensate for the lack of government funding.

Private schools are less likely to differentiate on pricing.

This person raises a very good point; keep in mind that being a US resident--and in fact being a state resident of the state your school of choice belongs to--makes a big difference. They'll always charge less for one of their own than for someone out-of-state.

 

[Aurgelmir]

snipity

I am a Proud Graduate of the Norwegian University system

I do not know how it would be for a foreign student at Norwegian Universities, but here how it was for me:

Tuition: Er... nothing? Well I think its more like £60 a semester, but that's a formality.

since we have no tuition we have to pay for housing ourselves though, which can get quite expensive.

Student Loans: Everyone gets this (for 8 years I think). And based on differnet criteria some of the Loans get magically turned into Scholarships each semester. Mainly: Pass exams get moneys.

This is for the Public Universities and Colleges though, which are generally the best ones here. There are some privately owned Colleges who will charge more, generally a higher tuition and you need to pay for each exam you take (failing exams can therefore become rather expensive). Since I didn't go to any of those I have no idea what the prices are.

All in all everyone in Norway are entitled to an education, which is nice (Yay Socialism)

As for the admittance:

The way you apply to schools here is done in two similar ways: there is the Ordinary admittance, and the special admittance. And it is done by sending in your grades from high school and other documentation to the national admittance office, who handles admittance to all Universities/Colleges in Norway. No interviews or personal statements are required, except some art schools will require an admittance test, often instead of everything else.

So when you apply for university it is done as follows:
You fill out a form listing X amount of programs you want to follow, in order of desire. (A Program is for instance Mechanical Engineering, Social Science etc.)


The Ordinary Admittance is based on your grades from high school, and a lot of other factors, like age, Military service/other university courses etc. It is all given a point value and added up.

The Special Admittance is ONLY based on your High school grades.

So when your points are added up you get compared to anyone else applying for the same program as you, and the X highest on that list gets admitted to that program (X is determined about how big the program is)

I am not sure how they compare between the two admittance formats though, but they are there in order to give the people that had good grades from High School a chance, but at the same time give people that might not have had the best grades a chance to get into the same program later.

(You are compared on both systems each time you apply though.)

Wow long post, hope it was informative

 

[Viral_Lola]

I think it's funny that I have actually considered going to the UK for school. It's been a rather big consideration the past couple of years.

 

[CiB42]

Scotland has no fees. Our tradition is that education is a right, not a privelege.

However, due to the financial situation there is talk of introducing fees for non-Scottish UK students (which will likely be much lower than the fees being paid by non-Scottish UK students in the rest of the UK)

 

[WolfThomas]

Australia, I pay roughly 6-8k a year, the rest is subsidized by the government. Also we have a series of admission systems for each state, the one in my state is called VTAC, you can apply to all the universities in the country through them, they use your ENTER score which is a score you get as a sum of all of your grades. Can't really remember how it all works, I'm in my fourth year of university.