How do I know I Exist?

[thom_cat_]

Whoever told you to make this presentation -if they are in the education system- is a real prick.
This is how religions get by.
The burden of proof is on the believer. There is no point proving you don't exist because there is no evidence behind it. Ask the teacher to back up his claim I dare you!

 

[Peteron]

Ask yourself this question, and then answer.

I have to deliver a presentation that has me "prove that I DON'T know I exist" and can simply not figure out how to go about doing this. Its pretty damn hard to prove you don't know something like that!
Wonder if anyone here knows about TOK...

I just poked myself, therefore I exist.

 

[Rayne870]

You wrote this thread, several people from various parts of the world responded to it, which means they saw something you created, therefore proving your existence. If anyone argues it tell them "I can't hear you because you don't exist" if they press it "I can't hear you because your mother didn't exist" Keep going up the family tree and dumbing down the argument until you win.

 

[PrimoThePro]

Ask yourself this question, and then answer.

I have to deliver a presentation that has me "prove that I DON'T know I exist" and can simply not figure out how to go about doing this. Its pretty damn hard to prove you don't know something like that!
Wonder if anyone here knows about TOK...

Are... Are you in IB? (International Baccalaureate?) That... Don't... Stop being in that. Immediately. IB will only be useful if you exit your highschool going overseas. NOT within your country, NOT within countries that surround your country, ONLY overseas.
On to your question, I believe Descartes said "I think, therefore I am" You have a conscious thought, therefore you can safely say you are an existing being. Now arguing you are what you THINK you are is a completely different ballgame.

 

[thrillingsuspense]

You should start by defining "I" as both the physical entity perceived by yourself and others
and an emotional entity perceived by yourself.

The physical "I" is perceived through the five senses, but not only your five senses but everyone else's as well. Since not everybody's sensory receptors work in the same exact way there can be no definitive physical "I". How do you know that the way you perceive your physical "I" is the right way, or in fact the only way? The "I" therefore only TRULY exists as neurological data interpreted by the emotional "I"; a joining of physical and emotional.

Since every individual's emotional "I" is perceiving your physical "I" differently then it is impossible to know whether you exist as you think you do.

If you apply this theory to every object then it is impossible to know the physical form of anything.

If there is no way of knowing if there is an absolute way of perception then there can be no absolute physical data. Therefore all scientific research in neuroscience is subjective data, and we can't know if the brain is actually perceiving the world through our five senses.

There is uncertainty on both the physical and the emotional level, so how can we be certain that they can come together to form what we know as ourselves.

(if any of that is unclear ask and i'll try to help)
(i'm not promising that this argument it infallible, I came up with it pretty quickly so who knows)

 

[Lateinos]

You think, therefor you are. Most fitting for this: If you didn't exist, how could you pose that question?

I'm going to invoke Nietzsche here. How do we know what thinking is? How do we know that we are the ones doing it? Couldn't "thought" be something that doesn't need a mind to exist? Isn't the whole idea of thought a human invention?

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

It's been a while since I had this class - but this is pretty much what I remember.

You had TOK? well, thanks, this helps, but then the context of faith in God? the nature of reality (does it have a will/ grand design?) is brought into question, hence, my argument is not sound, for it would be based on belief. I can use this, but its iffy...

I don't know what TOK is, but I had a class on this subject. We never had to prove we didn't exist though - kudos to your teacher for a really creative assignment.

I was just paraphrasing Plato (or was it Aristotle?) and later Descartes - all of whom assumed a god into the equation. I expanded it to a more modern (read multi-religious/cultural) version.

For the record, I personally believe in the gods, and I believe I exist because I don't believe it is worth any of the gods' time to make me believe otherwise. Yes, my personal belief in my existence stems from my belief that the gods don't care enough about me to screw with me. ^^ Yay.

Anyway, Descartes mostly thought that God might be evil and intentionally screwing with him, hence why in the classic "I might not exist" argument a god is required (to eternally torture him).

To argue that you don't exist AND that God (etc) doesn't exist is trickier. It might be easier to argue that nothing at all exists, but then what are you? You think, after all, and unless your thoughts are a lie, that means you exist. If your thoughts are a lie, then a lie to what, from whom? Hence why you need at least some sort of God (even if it's Cthuhlu) to be messing with you and making you believe that you exist when you really don't.

Unless you aren't being lied to, but rather are a fictional construct. Maybe you don't exist, but (for example) your teacher does - you are a fictional character in your teacher's dream. After all, your teacher can't prove you exist when he/she can't see you. Perhaps you only exist as a character in a dream.

Better yet, what if the entire universe as we know it is actually a work of fiction? Perhaps we are all characters imagined by an author who is writing about us in reality. Of course, if that's the case, then wouldn't that author be god?

See, that's the problem - to believe that you don't exist, you first need to believe that everything you perceive is a lie. If nothing is real, then why do you experience things? The usual answer is because a God (etc) wants you to.

Unless you argue that you don't Physically exist, and that your entire life is actually a dream. That might be easier to argue, because then your mind still exists, but no god is required to create your fantasy because YOU are creating your fantasy. Of course, that still leaves a You to exist, but it isn't the You that you are familiar with in this reality.

...

Of course, the you I'm speaking with doesn't really exist either. You're an online persona, created by the you at your computer. Even if that persona is like you in every way, it is not actually you, because your physical self doesn't exist online. On the other hand, you could be an equation created by a computer for the purpose of fooling us all into believing that you are real. You might not even know it yourself - you might believe that you really do have a class assignment, when really you are nothing more than an attempt to fool us all into... posting comments in a forum. Hmm.

Damn, no, you must exist. That theory is just too silly. ^^

 

[KarlMonster]

Hypothetically, there is only one person left alive on the earth. This person is a Solipsist. Is this person aware that he/she is alone, and how?

If you can answer that, you should also be able to disprove your existence. I agree with EllieR - up to a point. You need to come up with the properties of "non-existence" are. I must not exist, because I can/cannot...

See also Monty Python: 'Interesting People' sketch; the man who is totally invisible.

 

[Atticus89]

Jump from a building. If you die, you existed. If you live, you'll exist in a catastrophic amount of pain.

Seriously, please don't jump from a building. Also, I know I didn't start this thread so someone had to.

 

[theheroofaction]

You can also say that when people dream, everything seems perfectly natural to them, it is only when they wake up that they realize that a lot of what happened is impossible, so who's to say we aren't part of someone's dream?

Hope this helps

When was the last time you had a dream that was consistent in how it broke the universe

 

[Wayneguard]

Clearly the only option is to not show up for the presentation, since you don't exist to give it, seems reasonable to me!

/thread

 

[Sepiida]

The only way I can think of proving (hate that word but we'll go with it anyway) that you do not know you exist is to deny the very existence of the self. If there is no such thing as the individual than there is no such thing as you. This wouldn't require you to contradict Descarte necessarily since you can still claim something exists, only that what exists isn't you.

I can think of a few ways you can go about this. The first is the idea of open individualism. Basically it holds that every conscious being in the Universe is really just an expression of a single being. If we accept that to be true then there is literally no difference between you and I. You and I and everyone else on earth are the same person. Hence, you do not exist because there is no individual "you".

Another way to consider is to go with David Hume's rout, namely bundle theory. Basically Hume stated that an object, lets say a chair for our purposes, is merely a collection of it features. The chair in our example is made of wood, about four feet tall, brown, etc. All these things combined make it into a chair but (and this is the important part) there is no special feature we can just call "being a chair." Hume applied this to the question of personal identity and said that there is no such thing as the self. What we think of as our self is really just a collection of our memories and experiences with no one special thing we can point to and say "that is me." Now, if we are just a collection of experiences then by definition every new experience changes us. Every breath we take, every morsel of food we eat, every time one of our neurons fire produces an entirely new person. If we accept this to be true then how can you be sure that the you who is reading this right now is the same as the you who is reading this right now? You cannot know that they are the same person and therefore you cannot know you exist.

Obviously this is a VERY simplified version of some very complex philosophical ideas and I don't claim to be anything more than an amateur at this stuff but I hope it helped.

 

[MorphingDragon]

I can troll in a thread, therfore I exist.

 

[DasDestroyer]

You can also say that when people dream, everything seems perfectly natural to them, it is only when they wake up that they realize that a lot of what happened is impossible, so who's to say we aren't part of someone's dream?

Hope this helps

When was the last time you had a dream that was consistent in how it broke the universe

Well, I've recently had a dream where I was skiing, and after skiing right off of the mountain I flew horizontally. I'm pretty sure that defies gravity. And yet during the dream I saw nothing wrong with what was happening. But when I woke up, after about a minute I realized how crazy that is.

 

[Catalyst6]

I'm sorry if this is insulting your intelligence, but you have heard of Rene Descartes, right?

Yeah, great stuff, and that is the problem. Thats a solid idea Descartes had! and I have to PROVE that I DON'T know I exist for the presentation. How the fuck?

You're looking for negative proof? I'm afraid that might be impossible. But I can give you as close to a negative as science can provide, a non-proof.

Simply put, to know something requires experimentation and facts. You perceive the world from a single standpoint, your own. A proper proof requires an outside observer. Since no observer exists, there can be no proof.

...okay, that's pretty weak logic, I'll admit. But existentialist stuff like that is useless crap anyways, so it's what I can offer! The hard sciences are still open, just saying, heh.

 

[crudus]

I have to deliver a presentation that has me "prove that I DON'T know I exist" and can simply not figure out how to go about doing this. Its pretty damn hard to prove you don't know something like that!
Wonder if anyone here knows about TOK...

A. I doubt therefore I think. I think therefore I am.
2. You can't prove a negative.
C. Don't show up.

 

[Wintermute_]

Ask yourself this question, and then answer.

I have to deliver a presentation that has me "prove that I DON'T know I exist" and can simply not figure out how to go about doing this. Its pretty damn hard to prove you don't know something like that!
Wonder if anyone here knows about TOK...

Are... Are you in IB? (International Baccalaureate?) That... Don't... Stop being in that. Immediately. IB will only be useful if you exit your highschool going overseas. NOT within your country, NOT within countries that surround your country, ONLY overseas.
On to your question, I believe Descartes said "I think, therefore I am" You have a conscious thought, therefore you can safely say you are an existing being. Now arguing you are what you THINK you are is a completely different ballgame.

Alas, IB Diploma Program Junior presiding. EVERYONE and their cat has told me to cut and run, but I've sunk to much time and GPA points into it to leave without getting that fucking Diploma to dangle in front of colleges, or at least my peers. Thanks for the help, because lord know I'll need it...

Hypothetically, there is only one person left alive on the earth. This person is a Solipsist. Is this person aware that he/she is alone, and how?

If you can answer that, you should also be able to disprove your existence. I agree with EllieR - up to a point. You need to come up with the properties of "non-existence" are. I must not exist, because I can/cannot...

See also Monty Python: 'Interesting People' sketch; the man who is totally invisible.

I've tried very hard to work solipsism into my presentation, and its actually (in terms of philosophy, not real life practice) my personal world view. It is easy to use that premiss to disprove exterior existence, but I have to considerer then that as a solipsist, I consider my mind to exist. However, good suggestion involving development of the requirements for existence.

Thanks to everyone for their contributions and help!