How do you know when to give up on something?

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Weaver

Overcaffeinated
Apr 28, 2008
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I want to know if you have a general rule of thumb in your life on when it's time to just drop something, let something go, or give up on something. In my particular case it's related to hobbies.

I've been doing youtube videos for about 3 years but it's honestly never really caught on and I'm considering just giving up on doing it anymore. I've had some success, including a pseudo-hit (17k views).

However, it's getting to depressing to keep making content that something like 3 people watch. And while I'm eternally grateful that those three people like my stuff, it's simply hard to stay motivated when there's no change or consistency in viewership.

I feel like it's time to just shut the channel down and focus on my other hobbies, but another part of me feels like I put so much into it already I want to keep it going. It's particularly disheartening because when I started youtube, my very first horrible Civ V video got around 1,000 views in a day.

I know this is a problem business have with products; they invested so many resources into a failed venture that they put MORE resources into it to try to make it succeed. I don't really want that to happen. That said, all my channel takes up resource wise is time.

A large part of me wants to salvage the channel. I feel like more advertising would help it. I know a lot of the large channels tell the small guys they have to get out there and advertise (like go to the game's forum and post your videos there) but there isn't a forum in the world that actually lets you do that.

I dunno, I'm just tired of failing at this. I think it's obvious I wasn't cut out for it.
 

Barbas

ExQQxv1D1ns
Oct 28, 2013
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In that case, I would only continue doing it if it's something that you enjoy doing. If committing to something like a full LP becomes a chore, there is no point in continuing with it, since it's just going to end up bringing you down. Every now and then you may come up with an idea for something very compelling, in which case you should put it in a video. Writing short stories, learning instruments or drawing is generally less likely to become something stressful, since they'll take up less of your time. It's all meant to have a remedial effect.
 

Weaver

Overcaffeinated
Apr 28, 2008
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Barbas said:
In that case, I would only continue doing it if it's something that you enjoy doing. If committing to something like a full LP becomes a chore, there is no point in continuing with it, since it's just going to end up bringing you down. Every now and then you may come up with an idea for something very compelling, in which case you should put it in a video. Writing short stories, learning instruments or drawing is generally less likely to become something stressful, since they'll take up less of your time. It's all meant to have a remedial effect.
Thanks for the reply!

While it's not something I hate doing by any stretch of the imagination, I have numerous hobbies I also enjoy besides my fulltime job (which requires overtime).
- I like just playing games off camera to relax.
- I do DJ shows on the web.
- I'm also a hobbyist musician & electronic producer.

The difference with youtube is people expect expedient content. Like 3 - 7 videos a week, because that's what the big names in youtube can put out (because it's their jobs). My issue is, with eating properly and my perfunctory efforts to stay in shape, there's just only so much time in the day and I find it difficult to be "on" for the audience all the time, especially after a long day. You simply can't run a channel on a few videos a month, it will die.

We then enter the chicken and egg that I'd probably end up being more motivated if anyone actually watched my videos or my channel saw any sort of subscriber growth. I'd be excited to engage my audience, but I don't have an audience.

I do have one last idea I want to try, but I almost want to make it on a brand new channel.
 

Batou667

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Oct 5, 2011
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I'd say worry less about what the "right" thing to do is, and concentrate on what gets you exited and makes you happy. If you're bored and jaded with your Youtube channel, that will be evident in your videos and, even if they're still getting churned out regularly, people will pick up on it. RoosterTeeth's Fails of the Weak is a great example of this - it used to be the most genuinely funny weekly upload they were producing, but it' now at the point where the clips are stale, the editing is perfunctory, and the presenters clearly have no passion for it any more. Every week the comments sections are full of people saying "This hasn't been fun for months, you're clearly not enjoying it any more, just let this die".

There's a lot to be said for consistency, but sometimes it's better to stop flogging a dead horse.

Also, I took a quick look at your Youtube. You have a nice voice <3

[edit] You have hella few views though. I feel quite bad for you as you obviously put time and effort into your videos. Have you tried drumming up some publicity?
 

Blitsie

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Jul 2, 2012
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One of the things I noticed from many successful people in my life is that they just don't care about things like competition and all that, they just do what they love and put it out there in the world, if there's decent constructive criticism they take it in and move on to the next fun thing, if no one notices then they still just move on to the next fun thing, basically regardless of what happens, they actually enjoy what they do and wont let outside opinion (or lack thereof) influence that at all. And yet at the same time these guys get immensely popular.

One woman I know is a very successful business owner and more and more competing businesses have opened up around her, lots of them resorting to all kinds of tactics in the book to steal her customers and yet still she stands on top. I once asked her how she does this and she's just like "meh, let them do their thing, I've got my own awesome stuff to implement and focus on" and to this day those competing are absolutely ripping their hair out from frustration, because they aren't focusing on themselves and doing it for the fun of it, its all about "her business", not "my business" basically.

If you genuinely enjoy making videos on youtube, then maybe adopt a "fuck views, I like doing this so I'll just continue" mindset and just have fun, and if you see a fun way to promote your stuff go for it, just stop caring about the views and focus on whatever cool thing you can do next in your channel.

I hope for the best for you!!!
 

Kuilui

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Apr 1, 2010
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My suggestion to you as one person with a gaming channel to another. Don't do mainstream games (and yes popular indies count towards that), because 4000 other people are doing those same games and no matter how brilliant your commentary or charming your voice or funny the video is without a large install base of your own your going to go nowhere fast. I found a horror game, a little no name indie one and I started doing recordings of it. Didn't go anywhere for a long time but then they got on greenlight and suddenly some of my videos of the game exploded just because nobody else had really done videos of it and the ones that were beside mine were lazy and badly edited. Its a lot of luck and sometimes you really gotta dig hard if you ever want to get your foot in the door and see some views.
 

Illesdan

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Sep 15, 2008
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The problem lies within being just reliant upon YouTube. Create a Facebook account, update and link whenever you are able to put out new material. A lot of these people who are cranking out ungodly amounts of videos are usually also the same people putting out inferior product. James Rolfe (aka; 'The Angry Video Game Nerd') scaled back his video production because the quality of the content was suffering when he was under ScrewAttack's contract to make a video every week. Same with Doug Walker/'The Nostalgia Critic'. James and Doug both have their own websites and also try to vary their content a bit to bring in more viewership. I read 'Cracked.com' almost every day, and the editors always are trying to promote the writers by following them on Facebook or Twitter. And, if the writers have their own website, they promote that as well.

Unfortunately, there is a lot of good (and bad) content to sift through on YouTube. People can easily get overwhelmed, and if you don't have enough taglines to describe your video's content effectively, you could be losing the very people who are looking for something like what you put out.
 

Weaver

Overcaffeinated
Apr 28, 2008
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Batou667 said:
Thanks for the kind words! I honestly haven't done too much to drum up publicity. I'm not really sure how to as most forums simply don't let you post your content lol.

Blitsie said:
Snip 2: The Snippening
It's good advice! That said, I can only honestly do something "for myself" for so long before I want some kind of outside engagement. Let's be frank, no one is making youtube videos for no one to watch them. I love playing games (obviously) and making videos is painless, but the real joy for me comes from engaging an audience. The catch here is I need an audience to engage, and to do that I need to make content, but if no one watches it... what do I do?

Kuilui said:
Snip 3: The Snipcerer
I do think tackling some indie games is a good idea, I'll look into it! That said, I'm not going to play something I don't want to just to get views. I want views, but not if it means having to play a game I don't want to :).
Luckily I enjoy indie games!
 

Baron_BJ

Tired. Cold. Bored.
Nov 13, 2009
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Weaver said:
Batou667 said:
Thanks for the kind words! I honestly haven't done too much to drum up publicity. I'm not really sure how to as most forums simply don't let you post your content lol.

Blitsie said:
Snip 2: The Snippening
It's good advice! That said, I can only honestly do something "for myself" for so long before I want some kind of outside engagement. Let's be frank, no one is making youtube videos for no one to watch them. I love playing games (obviously) and making videos is painless, but the real joy for me comes from engaging an audience. The catch here is I need an audience to engage, and to do that I need to make content, but if no one watches it... what do I do?

Kuilui said:
Snip 3: The Snipcerer
I do think tackling some indie games is a good idea, I'll look into it! That said, I'm not going to play something I don't want to just to get views. I want views, but not if it means having to play a game I don't want to :).
Luckily I enjoy indie games!
WARNING: Post was written quickly, we're talking first draft standard, barely coherant shit here.

I've often seen you on these forums mentioning that you made videos and whenever that happened I always imagined the worst (this is the internet, any random with a webcam can make videos), that your videos would contain commentary that came across like an ear-grating, lispy-voiced turd that stuttered like a broken air-conditioner being a pretentious wanker (not due to your general post content, mainly because this is a game site). This thread finally made me go, "ya know what, I'll check this out and actually give an opinion and be insultingly honest", (and If you've seen many of my posts, which I doubt, I'm a very cynical, blunt and rather insultingly cruel person when it comes to criticism).

I was honestly surprised, there's actually some charisma going on there and the nervous speech ("err", "uhh", "like", that sort of speech, people naturally insert it when they're nervous) was at a perfectly reasonable level (even bigger personalities do it when they're unable to do it).

Here's the thing though, you're wanting an audience and there's a fair few roadblocks to getting attention (even moderate attention) that people just don't understand (partly because YouTube is a backwards shitheap, partly because people have shitty taste). Firstly, Let's Plays are a dime a dozen and getting noticed is something that rarely happens and is often completely random (for example, check out a number of successful YouTubers, a lot of them will say that they really got their start when someone big noticed them and mentioned them in a tweet or something) or caused by a particular topic blowing up, often with them being the first person there. An example I saw very recently where someone because a big shit overnight (well, as in they jumped from a nobody to someone a 23k sub base) was a guy called InternetAristocrat (say what you want about the guy, I disagree with him on a lot of large things, but his presentation is why I watch), he came to prominence purely because he was the sort of guy who watched internet boards all the time and made a video about "The Mighty Number 9" controversy as it was happening and had a lot of information on it (more than almost anyone else), he was the only one who had really made a video yet and he was one of the very first, so early in fact that actual game news articles linked to him as a source (and he's not exactly audience friendly), this caused him to blow up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXDSfUJBCj0 <--- The video in question.

Then, there's also the sad fact that YouTube bases who gets "recommended" your videos based on where you live (this is partly beneficial because it stops you from being recommended nothing but videos from countries who speak a language you don't, but it also separates countries that speak the same language, like fucking English), at least, they separate you until you get a big enough audience (what size you need to be isn't really known). A brief explanation of this is contained within this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgMqhEMhVV8
(It's a Gametheory video explaining why Pewdiepie (ewwwww) is as big as he is, a lot of it has to do with his moving to another country dicking with this system and spreading his videos almost globally instead of isolating them. A brief aside, I hate Gametheory, but the video illustrates this point well).

Next problem, you're not trying to be funny, which I approve of, that means there's more flavours out there than fucking vanilla (Vanilla being comprised primarily of shrieking shitheels), however when most people go after Let's Plays they're normally after some big personality that will make them laugh. In my opinion this is both your biggest problem and your biggest boon, if you can establish yourself as someone who's not a mugging, preening jackass (which you've managed to avoid) and who provides insight and long-term information on a game then you may be able to set yourself up with a nice, niche audience. But to do that you're going to have to try and go after games that no one else is looking at yet (like others have mentioned), not some old crap, but some new and obscure stuff (Stryder is way too mainstream), something that you can potentially beat everyone else to the punch with. Your current presentation matches this sort of content in my opinion, you've not got too humorous a bent to your tone, but you do sound like you've got something interesting to say and you've got a decent, respectable voice.

Your voice isn't something that you can change, this is something that a lot of people never want to accept, they want to be some sort of "eCelebrity" but they've got a nasally tone, stutter uncontrollably, etc and as such no one can stand to watch their videos. You're not that unlucky, however you've been saddled with a more serious and less comedic tone (that doesn't mean you can't be funny or anything, but it's not the best focus), an example using the ever-famous shrieking shitheel PewDiePie: His voice is extremely fucking annoying, but it matches the sort of crap he makes very well, if he were attempting to talk more seriously he wouldn't be able to carry it, yours is a voice that can carry a more serious tone (but not too serious, yours is slightly laid back, you've got a decent stage presence, like the sort of guy you can imagine sitting beside and playing games with).

Also, don't feel pressured to put out too many videos, the amount of videos that larger channels put out it meaningless. If you're not feeling 100% into this your audience WILL know and they won't like it, even if you're only putting out something once a week or something so long as you're at your best then you should be good. Also, if you've made a video and you don't think it's your best stuff then you shouldn't put it out, don't feel forced to upload something just to keep people's attention. Another big example of this is TotalBiscuit, he actually makes a lot more videos than people thinks he does, he actually doesn't upload the majority of the videos he makes because he feels that they're not up to his quality standards.

To help with quality, just look up some stuff about the game, some basic talking points to fill in for dead air, Let's Plays are not a medium that in any way allows for periods of silence, unless it's a cut scene/story moment. This means that whenever there's nothing of note happening in the game you've got a small list of bullet points that you can just address for a little while. Here's an example, you can bring up the publisher of the game, their previous titles, some controversy they're involved in (this can also help invite viewer comments which I address in greater detail below) and be ready to go off on a tangent on that stuff until something in the game worth commenting on happens. I checked out your first Stryder video to get an idea of your stuff, you mention some basic items that I listed here but as soon as you mentioned them you moved along and were at a bit of a loss for things to say, that's something you can elaborate on in the down time and make it sound interesting; "My god, the resolution on this thing, you should have seen the black magic I had to pull to get this thing to record properly..." and then you can proceed to go into a long and elaborate story (keep stories like this true, but exaggerate a lot, keep it entertaining) to buy yourself time whilst staying on the topic of the game AND being entertaining at the same time.

Foster some good will amongst viewers, get them involved in the comments, make them feel as though they're part of a community and interact with them, in the early stages of video making word of mouth is literally the only thing you can do to get your channel out there. People don't react well to a person recommending their own channel, but if its a viewer who's super excited about the channel based on its merits then that's an opinion you can trust. It doesn't take much, just ask a handful of questions in the videos (don't let them come across as forced), ask for recommendations or what people have been playing and just talk back to them, people get excited when the video-maker talks with them. If people think you're listening to their feedback then they begin to care about the content more because they feel as though they've invested in it in some way.

Finally, I finished this post before realising that the last post was a couple of weeks ago, but after typing so much I refuse to put this up (and you can suck it escapist! I got in before the 30 day cut off! Blow me whilst gently cupping my balls).

TL;DR: Fuck you, I wrote a lot, read it. But, If you boil the problem down to its most basic level, you're trying to get attention based entirely on the merit of your content and YouTube is sure as shit not an environment with merit is rewarded, you've got to do other things as well.