How do you reason with religious people?
- Thread starter YukoValis
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Saying you're on the side of WBC just because they're Christian is equivalent to saying "I am an Atheist, ergo, I am on the same side as [the USSR/the PRC/the DPRK] (delete as appropriate)" or "I believe that the whales should be preserved, ergo, I am a Nazi".
(Actually, that last one might be true, I can't help but feel that Nazis would have ulterior motives for saving the whales, they're just too villainous to do this one nice thing! And when you think about it, U-Boats were a sort of similar shapes to whales, weren't they? It must be a ploy I tells'ya! There's probably hordes of Nazi-filled U-Boats masquerading as whales right under our noses!)
(Actually, that last one might be true, I can't help but feel that Nazis would have ulterior motives for saving the whales, they're just too villainous to do this one nice thing! And when you think about it, U-Boats were a sort of similar shapes to whales, weren't they? It must be a ploy I tells'ya! There's probably hordes of Nazi-filled U-Boats masquerading as whales right under our noses!)
Nope they aren't even on the same spectrum...it's a trap that everyone who is debating with a religious zealot falls into at one time or another, that they're being unreasonable. To them faith seems logical. Their is more reason for life being here if there is a divine creator and the fact that we are an accident doesn't hold water for them because of the age old question, why are we here" must have an answer more sophisticated than to eat and fuck.Truehare said:
Yes we have a great argument for evolution but not creation because we need to solve the question of how does organic soup become life. Here's the point where the more laid back religious people say that this is the creator's moment of brilliance...just remember that this is a good middle ground to give them until a scientist does this and then we give them the big bang until another scientist shows us how it works really. God can't exist in the observed but in those unobservable places where doubt hangs heavy you religious guys can feel free to go nuts.
By the way it is blind faith not pure faith that is the bad one...but this is still the best post I've seen because in not arguing about their beliefs they have nothing to defend and if they attack yours, you have proof that your beliefs are correct.
So now it comes to pass that I must offer you my opinion...I was brought up to believe in god in school I was forced to pray to him once a day by government mandate. At home I was free to believe what ever I wanted, I was ignored slightly more than my siblings, just enough for me to grow up without beliefs being forced upon me. I don't believe in god. Tell this tale to your religious friends, that I given the freedom to choose my religion and the education to know of all of these religions consciously made a decision to remain free from all of them.
So forget the arguments and focus on this overwhelmingly clear evidence: God has given us free will so that men might choose to be evil or good. Children are inherently good as they don't know how to be evil yet. As a child I chose no religion, assuming that God has given me a good soul to lead the way then I have made the right choice, so IF there is a God then he want's us to not believe in him...but I'm 100% sure that there isn't one...sorry.
Eerrrmmm.........WBC?........someone care to explain that?
As for dealing with religious people, I just put it like this.......God and jesus are both Monkeys.......acording to Darwins theory of evolution we all evolved from monkeys, yet God made us all in his image (seriously read the bible, its full of crazy shit like that).
Now if God made us all in his image then by my theory he is upstairs right now hurling crap around with the Monkey Angels...............Yeah............I know right?
As for dealing with religious people, I just put it like this.......God and jesus are both Monkeys.......acording to Darwins theory of evolution we all evolved from monkeys, yet God made us all in his image (seriously read the bible, its full of crazy shit like that).
Now if God made us all in his image then by my theory he is upstairs right now hurling crap around with the Monkey Angels...............Yeah............I know right?
His stupidity has nothing to do with being religious, and this is a thinly veiled, dirty jab at the religious.
I tend to avoid them. In my experience, reasonable religious people are hard to find (mind you, I live in the South >_>). I've gone through the whole point, counter-point, counter-counter-point thing but in the end all we can do is agree to disagree. Besides, "God works in mysterious ways" and Romans 9:14-15 clearly states:
What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! For he says to Moses,
?I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.?
To them, God does what the hell he wants and we shouldn't question it.
What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! For he says to Moses,
?I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.?
To them, God does what the hell he wants and we shouldn't question it.
All of my religious friends hate the WBC more than anything ever, so I think your friend is just a moron. Religious people in general don't act like that I would expect.
Since I'm that much of a helpful person, let me find it for you! I've been reading it, lately, so this stuff's all fresh in my mind. It's... Leviticus, 18:22. "You are not to lie with a man as with a woman; it is an abomination." Also repeated a little later, in 20:13 - "If a man lies with a man as with a woman, they have both committed a detestable thing. They must be put to death; their blood is on their own hands", is what it says here. Also, the story of Sodom and Gomorrah starting around Genesis 18:16, and the... Oddly similar story of the Levite in Gibeah, beginning around Judges 19:18 and ultimately leading to most of the tribe of Benjamin getting wiped out, both mention involve large groups of men demanding owners of houses to give up their pretty male visitors to the mob for... Specified reasons.Magenera said:
So yeah. The Old Testament's pretty clear about the homosexuality thing. Depending on the version you're reading, some translations say "sexual relations" outright, rather than the more polite "lie with" or "sleep with". Couldn't comment on the New Testament, I haven't gotten that far, yet. Bible is long. In any case, look up the verses, you probably have a Bible somewhere about the house, or there's always websites where you can just type the numbers in and it'll find them for you. Like this one, [http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+18%3A22&version=NIV] for example. Useful! There's even a button you can press to show the whole chapter, so you can get the real context of what you're reading.
Oh, just so we're clear, I'm an atheist all the way. Reading the Bible's just cemented the fact that I'm never converting to Christianity.
Thankfully I live in the middle of nowhere, meaning that there really isn't any major religious groups/cults that I have to deal with. Yes, there is a Cristian church in my neighborhood, but it's out-of-the-way and the Christians are well-behaved (as in they don't go on protests or that other stuff).
I always pictured God as taking different roles throughout time. Humanity is like a human being: when we were first created, we were treated as children. God was supposedly closer to humanity at that time, and he guided us by the hand. As time went on, and humanity got older, he slowly distanced Himslef from us, allowing us to "take care of ourselves". At this point in time, I'd say we're like reckless young adults. We've left the roost, we're on our own, we have to make our own decisions, and have to live with the consequences. Makes me think of the Judgement like an intervention to keep us from blowing all of ourselves up.Karilas said:Just to weigh in, I'm not in the least religious any more, I was Catholic schooled, which really helped me see everything wrong with indoctrinating children. Still, to reconcile a God's lack of action in a world full of evil it began to make sense that if there were such a God, and he wanted all of his creations to have free will and develop and grow, he simply mustn't interfere with the good or the evil we perpetrate, until such time as we are judged. Which kinda makes God more of an impartial scientist type, watching over his experiment and taking notes.El Poncho said:Everyone I know who is religous accepts the views of others so I've never had to reason with any.
However I like to have this quote in my mind most of the time, doubt it would work but I like it
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able, and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God."
- Epicurus, 33 A.D
Don't forget to take into account the saying 'One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter'; if there is a god how can he decide upon what is good and what is evil. These concepts are dependant upon the viewpoint one takes upon them. "To someone who is of a lawful-good alignment, even acting true neutral can feel like chaotic-evil".Karilas said:Just to weigh in, I'm not in the least religious any more, I was Catholic schooled, which really helped me see everything wrong with indoctrinating children. Still, to reconcile a God's lack of action in a world full of evil it began to make sense that if there were such a God, and he wanted all of his creations to have free will and develop and grow, he simply mustn't interfere with the good or the evil we perpetrate, until such time as we are judged. Which kinda makes God more of an impartial scientist type, watching over his experiment and taking notes.El Poncho said:Everyone I know who is religous accepts the views of others so I've never had to reason with any.
However I like to have this quote in my mind most of the time, doubt it would work but I like it
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able, and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God."
- Epicurus, 33 A.D
I'm going to come out now and say I am a proud Wican, and I am treated like shit because of it.
Usually with every other religion, I don't care as long as they don't talk shit about mine, I won't be a ***** towards theirs.
Plain and simple.
Usually with every other religion, I don't care as long as they don't talk shit about mine, I won't be a ***** towards theirs.
Plain and simple.
The real way to reason with religious people is to do no such thing. Why must we argue over things and not tolerate those things that divide us? Those things that make us unique, that make us human? If they believe something you do not, why can you not let it slide and be the better man by saying 'I have my own beliefs, and while they do not coincide with your own, I don't want to fight over them'. If you must continue upon this diagreement, ask them if you can show them your proof and they can show you their's; you might both learn something that way.
Before anyone says anything I am agnostic. I also have Autism and used to hate religion; if I can overcome my disease and calmly converse with someone about things like this any one can.(and yes this has worked for me)
Before anyone says anything I am agnostic. I also have Autism and used to hate religion; if I can overcome my disease and calmly converse with someone about things like this any one can.(and yes this has worked for me)
I know a Catholic girl (Hot, right?) who wants to be an R.E teacher, goes to church every now and then but not every week etc, just believes in God. I told her I was an atheist and we still talk all the time and she's quite a close friend. Like anything, it depends on the person, although some have been known to try and take moral high ground and preach. That can be a tad frustrating.
THAT IS SO GOD DAMND COOL!Sarah Kerrigan said:
Couldn't resist ^_^
Well, I am an aethiest, but I have a simple rule for everyone:
(MILDLY OFFENSIVE MATERIAL, LOOK AWAY IF YOU ARE GONNA BE OFFENDED)
Treat your religion how you treat your penis, don't whip it out in public and don't shove it down people's throats.
I know that's a tad vulgar, but trust me it's something you are guaranteed to remember
