How do you reason with religious people?

[Jedamethis]

After several minutes pondering, I reckon you should ignore the religious side of it completely. If they do, or support something which brings harm to somebody else, beat the shit out of them. Erm. Not sure what to do then.

 

[Mumonk]

Religious people feel like they are being "attacked" because they have dedicated their whole life to worshiping a grown up version of santa clause, and when you tell them you don't believe in that stuff, they get angry. By simply saying "i don't believe in that." you have basically told them that they are wasting their whole lives.

The polite thing to say, "I don't discuss Politics or Religion, cause no matter what I say, you will think I'm wrong." I work at a hospital, and that's what I say to patients when they ask me to pray with them or something and I say I'm atheist.

If they push it as why you don't believe in god, quote Epicurus :

"Is God willing to prevent Evil, but not able?
Then He is not omnipotent."

"Is he able but not willing?
Then he is Malevolent."

"Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him god?"

Or if you want to be a dick then say, "I don't believe in god for the same reason people don't think Zeus controls the lighting." OR "Science flies you to the moon, Religion flies you into buildings."

 

[Holy_Handgrenade]

Everyone I know who is religous accepts the views of others so I've never had to reason with any.

However I like to have this quote in my mind most of the time, doubt it would work but I like it

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able, and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God."
- Epicurus, 33 A.D

That's easy. He is able but not willing. Imagine this: You decide to tell a lie.

"Yeah honey, that looks great," you try to say. Unfortunately, the MIGHTY HAND OF GOD reaches from the sky and knocks you out before the words leave your lips.

You can't bring reason into discussions of religion. Religion, by definition, is something outside or contrary to reason. If there was scientific basis to it, it's science, not religion. If there isn't, or if you choose to ignore it, it's a matter of faith.

Therefore, attempts to appeal to reason can't work, you have to appeal to faith, or nothing at all.

This is absolutely true. However, in this case the argument isn't:

Religion is wrong.
The WBC is religious.
Therfore, the WBC is wrong.

The argument SHOULD be:

The bible says "Don't judge people. Leave it to God."
The WBC judges people and doesn't leave it to God.
Therefore, the WBC is wrong.

You can't bring what the Bible says into the argument because the 'God' says many things in the bible such as allowing slavery, including selling your own daughter as a sex slave (Exodus 21:1-11), child abuse (Judges 11:29-40 and Isaiah 13:16), and bashing babies against rocks (Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9). As well as telling followers to send twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin and condoning the rape and forced marriage to them (Judges 21:10-24 NLT)
aswell as many other homophobic, racist and sexist qoutes.

EDIT: You can follow those up there all there.

God Knows!

Hehe, I see what you did there.

EDIT #2:

I may be a Christian...but me and the WBC do not share the same god....as for your friend...there is no reasoning with them.

Do you believe the bible? If so than you believe in the same 'god' as everything they believe can be found there see above for some qoutes.

PS: I'm not condoning them by saying it's in the bible as I am athiest.

 

[akibawall95]

Honestly you don't. Most people will argue night and day do defend what they believe in. You should not pester someone about their religion. You will just get what happened to you.

 

[snagli]

reasoning with religious people is incredibly difficult. i am a christian, and i know how to react when asked questions like "where's your proof?", "can god make a rock he can't lift?" or "why is there so much grief if god could just make it better?"

if it is about stuff like that, don't bother reasoning. most christians will be stubborn, as faith is all they need, and proof is useless to faith.

if they say things like "gay marriage is against god", "you're an idiot by not believing", or "kill all jews and muslims, they've got it all wrong", feel free to either avoid them altogether, or punch them in the face

 

[Pompey71]

God Knows!

 

[ComicsAreWeird]

The issue here is not the fact that he is religious, it´s that he´s ignorant towards what WBC represents. As for other religious people...most will debate in an intelligent way, i believe.I used to be religious when i was a kid and i was tolerant to other views.

If not, just let them be. Everyone´s intitled to their beliefs. When i´m in that (rare) position i usually shift the conversation to trivial matters. It avoids a lot of headaches

 

[mlbslugger06]

I ask questions to try and discover how jaded a person is. One that I like is questioning the bible verse that states those with faith without seeing are to receive equal if not greater blessings than those that saw their god in the flesh. But there is only one heaven, so my admittance is the greatest reward, there is no way to improve upon it. So obviously god did not mean rewarded in heaven he meant greater blessings on earth. Yet compared to eternal life in heaven, earth will always pale in comparison.

The ending statement I make is something like: "When you believe in god life becomes a waiting room and all he is promising for your faith is better magazines."

 

[Irriduccibilli]

I wont even bother. They already made their decision about their beliefs. Besides, if I was to preach being an atheist, I wouldnt be any better than any other religious person

 

[Macgyvercas]

Basically, I tell them that I have my own faith, and if they don't accept that, then I pull out the phrase "How about this. You stop preaching to me as to why your faith is better than mine and I won't go into a five hour lecture on evolution."

 

[Ganthrinor]

Disclaimer: I know these types of posts are frowned upon, but this is made not to troll, and I don't want a flame war. This is an honest question asking for help, and I ask to PLEASE keep it clean.:

It started when I told my religious friend about the whole WBC vs Anon thing.. to my shock he seemed to take the side of WBC, simply because they share the same type of religion (though I don't think he understands what they do different...) suddenly I'm in a 2 hour debate as if I attacked him.. No matter what I said he would yell and start attacking me personally, even on things that had nothing to do with what we were talking about. He just went nuts.

Finally I asked him a simple question.. "Do you think the WBC are part of the same religion as you, yes or no?" I never got an answer, in 20 posts of IM, I got cursing, insulting, straying off topic, but not a single yes or no.

So.. I guess for a lack of better word, Subject "How do you reason with religious people?" and simple (non-stupid) answers?

You can't argue with Faith.

You just can't.

 

[Marik2]

I don't really bother reasoning them. Last time I did was because of an attack on something I felt was important (this is going to sound very petty but a girl dumped me due to my lack of belief). So I try not to argue with them. However, I can get into MASSIVE arguments over sexuality (being bisexual) as I tend to get attacked occasionally by some religious people. In those moments I'm rational up to the point where I almost lose my cool and then I leave before I do something I would enjoy but ultimately regret.

And don't even get me started on the WBC. They just anger me.

\

Theres kinda of a same thread going on in the religion/politics section
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/528.266632-do-you-think-less-more-different-of-a-person-because-of-their-religious-belief

On topic Im a pantheist who constantly works on theories and see if they might be testable.

 

[HandsomeZer0]

Whenever the god fearing hate mongers come through at work and talk about god, i simply use evolution and the teapot argument to subjugate them. Since provocative writing is the devil and all, using encyclopedic like literary devices works wonders.

 

[TipsyPeaches]

I tell them keep your views to yourself and i won't attempt to show you mine other than that i prefer to avoid them which being in britain is easy cause i barely ever meet religious people here... seriously where are they all

most of us just have the sense not to kick up a stink about religion nowadays ^_^

I am a devout Christian, and I can say that your friend is definitely a jackass. WBC use their religion as a platform and a shield from which to spout their bigoted, moronic views, and are really not worth listening to. If they truly understood the message in the Bible, we probably would never have heard about them in the international media.

I kinda get it though; if Anon had just ignored them, eventually they'd get the message and quit. Now, it's probably going to roll on, and the WBC are going to get much more attention than they deserve.

I feel for you Americans; we have the same thing over here with the BNP.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

Disclaimer: I know these types of posts are frowned upon, but this is made not to troll, and I don't want a flame war. This is an honest question asking for help, and I ask to PLEASE keep it clean.:

It started when I told my religious friend about the whole WBC vs Anon thing.. to my shock he seemed to take the side of WBC, simply because they share the same type of religion (though I don't think he understands what they do different...) suddenly I'm in a 2 hour debate as if I attacked him.. No matter what I said he would yell and start attacking me personally, even on things that had nothing to do with what we were talking about. He just went nuts.

Finally I asked him a simple question.. "Do you think the WBC are part of the same religion as you, yes or no?" I never got an answer, in 20 posts of IM, I got cursing, insulting, straying off topic, but not a single yes or no.

So.. I guess for a lack of better word, Subject "How do you reason with religious people?" and simple (non-stupid) answers?

I keep it simple, your God© is not my god so your thoughts/comments may be ignored or questioned.

 

[Jamash]

"How do you reason with religious people?" and simple (non-stupid) answers?

Face to face.

Instant Messaging is never the right medium for those kinds of discussions, so many subtleties and facets of conversation are lost or aren't conveyed through text (especially over the internet) so it's not surprising you got into an argument with your friend over this particular subject.

I'm not saying either of you are right or wrong, but you could have come across as just as hostile or ignorant over IM.

If you can't speak to him face to face, then at least a phone call will allow him to hear the lack of hostility in your voice and friendly tone, which may help smooth things over.

 

[HerrBobo]

So.. I guess for a lack of better word, Subject "How do you reason with religious people?" and simple (non-stupid) answers?

Why do you feel the need to? I don't belive in any God, but my g/f and many of my friends do. Thats fine, its their choice. Yes, I think they are miss guided, but if they get something out of it, good for them!

 

[The Unworthy Gentleman]

The same way you reason with normal people.

Religious people aren't any different to atheists and they see you as the same thing, you aren't willing to listen to what they believe is the right answer. You simply stop arguing and get on with your life.

If it's off topic and you still can't reason with them then it's the person that's the problem, not the religion.

 

[Steambroom]

Everyone I know who is religous accepts the views of others so I've never had to reason with any.

However I like to have this quote in my mind most of the time, doubt it would work but I like it

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able, and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God."
- Epicurus, 33 A.D

To bad Epicurus died 270 BC.

 

[Marik2]

Everyone I know who is religous accepts the views of others so I've never had to reason with any.

However I like to have this quote in my mind most of the time, doubt it would work but I like it

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able, and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God."
- Epicurus, 33 A.D

Even atheists get tired of seeing that quote being thrown around.

And its flawed btw.