Is this really something people criticize New Vegas for? I felt it was one of the improvements over Fallout 3 that the narrative had a little more structure. It's not like it's very linear, even at that point in the game. I mean, railroading? What do they call Final Fantasy, tightroping?
How does New Vegas "Railroad" You?
- Thread starter Soviet Heavy
- Start date
The real answer is not fighting those things when you have starter gear. Didn't follow the main plot (like TES games, Fallout's other than 1 have a main plot that's more about something to do when you get bored) -- found a survivable route to Vegas instead (sounds like the one above, following the tracks, barely clipping Nipton, etc), after visiting Vegas, the whole undergeared thing was less of a problem.JaceArveduin said:
Yeah, I had the realistic headshots mod and some other mod that increased all gun damage, so while killing things wasn't hard, it was really easy to get killed too. I mean seriously, do you realize how accurate the fiends are at a range?Schadrach said:
I love that the game was hard at the start of New Vegas. Reminds me of Morrorwind in that respect. You slowly branch out and slowly explore your local environment. It helps put you in the game as a real person than some fps god that can kill everything. I've had people hate Vegas because they play it like a fps and die within 3 seconds and blame the game as shit. When its them that are playing it wrong.
Honestly, I kinda call bullshit on the whole thing too. Whenever I start a new game of NV, the first thing I do (even before the Goodsprings quests) is head up north to gamble for enough money to buy implants. It definitely can be done, you just have to play smart.Soviet Heavy said:
Also, I'm going to call shenanigans on it being any different from the other main-series Fallout titles. All of them are open-world and let you go wherever you want to go, but in all of them you encounter far easier enemies if you follow the story path than if you veer straight for the end-game areas. In Fallout 2 if you travel straight from Arroyo down to San Francisco you're probably going to get turned into a fine red mist by the first Enclave patrol or creature ambush you encounter. And yet, even then, it's still completely do-able. I've gone from Arroyo to the end credits screen in about an hour before without use of any cheats.
If anything, New Vegas is less railroad-y than the original games since you can give enemies you can't handle a wide berth, unlike the random encounters in the original games.
I don't really see the problem here. It takes all of half an hour to find a grenade launcher (less with GRA added on), and between that and a few other weapons, you can take on either the cazadors or few errant deathclaws directly between Goodsprings and New Vegas, if you're smart about how you do it. Or, head over to Nipton, then up the rail line. One blind deathclaw, some wolves/foxes, and a couple of raiders, and you're there. Less, if you know how to avoid them. The storyline gives you time to build yourself up, and gain some allies, so that you can get about and learn to take care of yourself, but if you know what you're doing, you'll be fine.
The DLC railroads you more than the main game, since there's usually only one path through, less choices, and more of the "you'll never know you already failed a quest until it's loooong since past having the option" *coughcoughDeadMoneycough*. There's a challenge to it, yeah, but it's not that hard, all things considered. Especially with the enemies that level, where it's easier to take them out at a relatively low level. Level 50 deathclaws in lonesome road, anyone?
The DLC railroads you more than the main game, since there's usually only one path through, less choices, and more of the "you'll never know you already failed a quest until it's loooong since past having the option" *coughcoughDeadMoneycough*. There's a challenge to it, yeah, but it's not that hard, all things considered. Especially with the enemies that level, where it's easier to take them out at a relatively low level. Level 50 deathclaws in lonesome road, anyone?
They're not a deathtrap once you know what you're doing. But when you first start playing the game, if you go any direction other then south, it's a 100% death trap. And even when you do know what you're doing, a low level character will have little to no chance when confronted by Cazadores, Giant Radscorpions and Deathclaws. Sneak isn't very effective until 50-60, and the weapons you get are ineffective against heavily armored foes. Certainly, if you use vats correctly to debilitate your enemies (shooting legs/wings), you might be able to run past, but you'll more then likely run into something else. I've made the run, in fact, I made a character a couple weeks ago, that went into The Divide at level 2, and managed to get almost all the way to the end (where he was assaulted by 3 deathclaws, and I can guarantee that at that point there was no way to kill them).
So, if you don't want your first few hours of the game to be a harrowing mess full of saving, loading and dying, you're forced to go south to primm, then south along the road past the police station, either past or into mojave outpost, around past Nipton (again, you can go off the beaten path, but you'll probably run into Giant Scorps, that can be really annoying at low levels), and then up to Novac.
I've started more new characters then I can remember, 20-30 at least, and 90% of them have gone the beaten path just because it's the most natural way to go. You just don't start with the ammo/supplies required to play the game in any other way, and if you're playing a melee character, good fucking luck going north.
It's a railroad.
So, if you don't want your first few hours of the game to be a harrowing mess full of saving, loading and dying, you're forced to go south to primm, then south along the road past the police station, either past or into mojave outpost, around past Nipton (again, you can go off the beaten path, but you'll probably run into Giant Scorps, that can be really annoying at low levels), and then up to Novac.
I've started more new characters then I can remember, 20-30 at least, and 90% of them have gone the beaten path just because it's the most natural way to go. You just don't start with the ammo/supplies required to play the game in any other way, and if you're playing a melee character, good fucking luck going north.
It's a railroad.
I have heard that criticism many times and never have I understood it. Some things you just aren't ready for when you start the game or don't know what you are doing.
It's also seems like people have forgotten how absolutely atrocious Oblivions level scaling was. (and FO 3's to a point)
Here's a thought, how about you don't piss off factions that you can't handle?
It's also seems like people have forgotten how absolutely atrocious Oblivions level scaling was. (and FO 3's to a point)
Except for the un-climbable rubble in and around DC and that cemetery area.Akalabeth said:
So, your complaint is that assassination squads are out to get you?Akalabeth said:
Here's a thought, how about you don't piss off factions that you can't handle?
Yea, the invisible walls bothered me more (is a greater example of railroading) than being encouraged to go around the south.Akalabeth said:
I like scenic routs too but that route should've had a couple of deeper locations. If something like Vault 11 (the weird one with the election) was settled down there, the trip would be more palatable.
The whole game needed more locations like Vault 11 and less like Ruins Of A Shack.
this. New vegas is designed so that 99.9% of people will take the south route, even if they don't want to, so that they go to the NCR and Caesar's legion meet and greet. In Fallout 3, after leaving the vault, just about any path you take is valid and will only get you killed if you're stupid. It doesn't try to force you into a specific path.Supernova1138 said:
The complaint is they make a robotic beeline for your location. No ambush attempt. No realism. No way to COUNTER ambush properly. They just run for your location. Fucking tirelessly. Day or night. They walk. Just WALK exactly to where you are. Doesnt matter what backend of the wasteland you are. They dont search. Or hunt. They just make a direct path to your face and march until they get there. Its kind of immersion breaking. I dont feel hunted. I feel like the AI from an incredibly shittier game went "GUEST APPEARANCEHargrimm said:
PSYCHIC ASSASSINS!"Fallout has the potential for some incredibly smart combat play and ambushing. Hell a legitimate strategy would be to hide and let the assassins miss you or go past. But no. The AI is designed to take a complex combat situation and go "SMUSHY SMUSH SHOOT FIGHT NOW!" and force you to take that one direct route. Completely removes room for tactical decisions.