how is the UFC thuggish

[carletonman]

I feel as if UFC is simply harkening back to the days of the gladiator. Bread and circuses and all that jazz.

Anyways, that got me to thinking, "why not just have gladiatorial combat?" Give these guys a couple of sharp swords, blood proof the ring (or turn it into sand), and just let 'em have at it. If it keeps the masses amused and their thoughts away from treasonous, rebellious acts, it must be working, right?

 

[TheTim]

Won't comment on the sport, I watch little of it, but I do notice that Tap-Out gear seems especially popular among what might be considered a rather low-brow demographic. Perhaps not "thuggish," but....I don't really have a PC term for it. Trashy types?

So because i choose to wear a tapout shirt or two, that makes me a trashy demo? Come on dude


Its exactly like saying people who listen to thrash metal are more likely to start riots because their music is so "hardcore"

 

[Vivi22]

Another reason I consider the UFC thuggish is the fact that it SHOULD be two fighters of equal skill and weight fighting it out to see who comes out on top, but it isn't. You can have guy A being the most professional fighter in the world, but if he is no good at getting out of submissions and guy B gets him in a submission, he's fucked.

This is possibly the most absurd argument I've ever read. Someone having a ***** in their armour so to speak does not mean they're walking into an unfair fight. For starters, this person who is historically worse on the ground than his opponent may be a far better striker, and as a result have a roughly equal chance at winning depending on how the fight goes.

Second, fighters know about their fights months in advance. They have ample time to train and to study their opponent and their own prior performance and work on weaknesses in preparation for the bout.

Finally, your statement ignores the myriad of things which have to happen to even get someone into a submission. Maybe if one guy is trapped in a submission it means he's fucked (and to be fair, most guys are if their opponent gets a submission locked in tight), but just saying that and ignoring everything that has to happen to lead into that person being trapped in a submission quite literally means nothing with regard to how equal the fighters are. You could just as easily say that if Fighter A hits Fighter B with a lucky hay maker he'll knock him out. Which is certainly possible. But if Fighter B is one of the best strikers in the sport and Fighter A is much better at submissions then the statement is barely a step above worthless.

No offense, but if you're going to criticize fights for not meeting your arbitrary definition of fairness then you could at least spend some time getting acquainted with the finer points of the sport so that you can make a reasonable argument.

 

[unoleian]

Won't comment on the sport, I watch little of it, but I do notice that Tap-Out gear seems especially popular among what might be considered a rather low-brow demographic. Perhaps not "thuggish," but....I don't really have a PC term for it. Trashy types?

So because i choose to wear a tapout shirt or two, that makes me a trashy demo? Come on dude


Its exactly like saying people who listen to thrash metal are more likely to start riots because their music is so "hardcore"

Did I say that? Please, enlighten me where I called you trashy.

I said it seems especially popular among those types. You yourself took the initiative to include yourself there, not me.

 

[SycoMantis91]

It's considered thuggish because it's like a PPV Fight Club. You go in and show you're the bigger man by kicking the shit out of the guy opposite you. Much like when gangs prove their superiority by either shooting up a rival's turf, 5-on-1'ing the 2nd in command, or making a shitty collaboration with Lil' Wayne. It doesn't make you a bigger man, but it makes you feel like one.

I don't think it's thuggish, (maybe it takes a little brain damage to be interested in competing, and I've met a few auteur MMA fighters, and they all think they're hard as 3-week old shit) but I think that's why it's perceived as such.

 

[Torrasque]

Another reason I consider the UFC thuggish is the fact that it SHOULD be two fighters of equal skill and weight fighting it out to see who comes out on top, but it isn't. You can have guy A being the most professional fighter in the world, but if he is no good at getting out of submissions and guy B gets him in a submission, he's fucked.

This is possibly the most absurd argument I've ever read. Someone having a ***** in their armour so to speak does not mean they're walking into an unfair fight. For starters, this person who is historically worse on the ground than his opponent may be a far better striker, and as a result have a roughly equal chance at winning depending on how the fight goes.

Second, fighters know about their fights months in advance. They have ample time to train and to study their opponent and their own prior performance and work on weaknesses in preparation for the bout.

Finally, your statement ignores the myriad of things which have to happen to even get someone into a submission. Maybe if one guy is trapped in a submission it means he's fucked (and to be fair, most guys are if their opponent gets a submission locked in tight), but just saying that and ignoring everything that has to happen to lead into that person being trapped in a submission quite literally means nothing with regard to how equal the fighters are. You could just as easily say that if Fighter A hits Fighter B with a lucky hay maker he'll knock him out. Which is certainly possible. But if Fighter B is one of the best strikers in the sport and Fighter A is much better at submissions then the statement is barely a step above worthless.

No offense, but if you're going to criticize fights for not meeting your arbitrary definition of fairness then you could at least spend some time getting acquainted with the finer points of the sport so that you can make a reasonable argument.

I guess it would be more accurate for me to say "I expect fights to be like Street Fighter where each fighter has the same set of skills at their disposal" rather than "both fighters should have the same amount of training", because after all, most fights are determined by how well a fighter retains their training no?

And yeah, I am just frustrated at how most fights I have seen are fighter A who is a stand up guy with good Muay Thai and Kickboxing against fighter B who is a ground guy with some Judo and submissions. I want UFC fights to be between two guys that will stand up and pound at each other or two guys that will go to the ground and try to submit the other, not the stand up guy getting taken to the ground right away and most of his training being ignored.

Your argument that if the ground guy doesn't get the stand up guy to the ground, then the stand up guy is in as much of an advantage as the ground guy would be in if he took the stand up guy to the ground, is a valid one and I give you that. And yeah, I forgot about the fact that most fights have many months of prep time given to the fighters so they can train and learn about their opponents.

I guess I just want UFC to be more like boxing? lol /shrug

 

[Fatboy_41]

Yes and anyone who you recommend that to is likely to get done rather than do actual self defence. Seriously I have seen Krav Maga and done real self defence. Aggressive crap like that and what is taught in general MMA styles is no more self defence than trying syllabus moves from Taekwondo or Wado Ryu. Although the former will land you gaol the latter will land you in hospital.

The reason stuff like that is used in military applications is because it is lethal not because it is safe and should be practised by normal people. When stuff like neck breaks and eye gouges are taught as self defence something has gone horribly wrong.

Self defence is self defence pure Traditional Martials as they are without adaptation are not self defence and pure aggressive MMA styles and military close combat style are equally not self defence.

Ok, a guy is coming at you, messed up on Ice, waving a knife with every intention to leave you bleeding in the gutter. Now, Ice is a very fucked up thing, because it means this guy now feels no pain and he isn't going to stop because you throw a few moves at him. You're going to have to break bones and make it do his body physically cannot carry his weight, or so that he can't see and gives you an opening to escape. I for one would rather my mate or girlfriend know something as brutal as krav for when this situation arose. It's a lot better to have to face police and explain your actions than to be zipped up in a black bag.

Example, Rashad Evans, a former UFC champion, was the victim of an attempted mugging late last year. Fortunately, he beat the absolute piss out of this bloke. Funniest mugshot I've seen in a while. No charges of assualt of battery we laid against him because it was "self defence". Self defence is the intention in which you use the martial art, not the martial art itself.

 

[him over there]

Mostly because it's taking martial arts and grinding their rich history and philosophy down to the bare minimum of hurting someone. Then using the physical techniques and nothing else like the morals or lessons it stands for to find the absolute best way to hurt someone for money. That's why it's thuggish.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

Yes and anyone who you recommend that to is likely to get done rather than do actual self defence. Seriously I have seen Krav Maga and done real self defence. Aggressive crap like that and what is taught in general MMA styles is no more self defence than trying syllabus moves from Taekwondo or Wado Ryu. Although the former will land you gaol the latter will land you in hospital.

The reason stuff like that is used in military applications is because it is lethal not because it is safe and should be practised by normal people. When stuff like neck breaks and eye gouges are taught as self defence something has gone horribly wrong.

Self defence is self defence pure Traditional Martials as they are without adaptation are not self defence and pure aggressive MMA styles and military close combat style are equally not self defence.

Ok, a guy is coming at you, messed up on Ice, waving a knife with every intention to leave you bleeding in the gutter. Now, Ice is a very fucked up thing, because it means this guy now feels no pain and he isn't going to stop because you throw a few moves at him. You're going to have to break bones and make it do his body physically cannot carry his weight, or so that he can't see and gives you an opening to escape. I for one would rather my mate or girlfriend know something as brutal as krav for when this situation arose. It's a lot better to have to face police and explain your actions than to be zipped up in a black bag.

Example, Rashad Evans, a former UFC champion, was the victim of an attempted mugging late last year. Fortunately, he beat the absolute piss out of this bloke. Funniest mugshot I've seen in a while. No charges of assualt of battery we laid against him because it was "self defence". Self defence is the intention in which you use the martial art, not the martial art itself.

You really don't know self defence laws at all do you? This is not about battery this about murder which is pretty much taught as self defence in Krav Maga. If you were paying a blind bit of attention to what I was saying you would realise Self Defence is a whole different entity to either Traditional or Mixed MA.

If you even knew the first thing about Self Defence you would know that is not the only way for that situation to go. The most damage would have to do to someone like that is break 2 joints or you know run away. That is whole point of Self Defence to defend yourself from harm and doing harm to the person harming you is not the primary aim. If the best option is to give a person your money you do that. That is how Self Defence actually works.

What you describe is overkill.

 

[Fatboy_41]

Yes and anyone who you recommend that to is likely to get done rather than do actual self defence. Seriously I have seen Krav Maga and done real self defence. Aggressive crap like that and what is taught in general MMA styles is no more self defence than trying syllabus moves from Taekwondo or Wado Ryu. Although the former will land you gaol the latter will land you in hospital.

The reason stuff like that is used in military applications is because it is lethal not because it is safe and should be practised by normal people. When stuff like neck breaks and eye gouges are taught as self defence something has gone horribly wrong.

Self defence is self defence pure Traditional Martials as they are without adaptation are not self defence and pure aggressive MMA styles and military close combat style are equally not self defence.

Ok, a guy is coming at you, messed up on Ice, waving a knife with every intention to leave you bleeding in the gutter. Now, Ice is a very fucked up thing, because it means this guy now feels no pain and he isn't going to stop because you throw a few moves at him. You're going to have to break bones and make it do his body physically cannot carry his weight, or so that he can't see and gives you an opening to escape. I for one would rather my mate or girlfriend know something as brutal as krav for when this situation arose. It's a lot better to have to face police and explain your actions than to be zipped up in a black bag.

Example, Rashad Evans, a former UFC champion, was the victim of an attempted mugging late last year. Fortunately, he beat the absolute piss out of this bloke. Funniest mugshot I've seen in a while. No charges of assualt of battery we laid against him because it was "self defence". Self defence is the intention in which you use the martial art, not the martial art itself.

You really don't know self defence laws at all do you? This is not about battery this about murder which is pretty much taught as self defence in Krav Maga. If you were paying a blind bit of attention to what I was saying you would realise Self Defence is a whole different entity to either Traditional or Mixed MA.

If you even knew the first thing about Self Defence you would know that is not the only way for that situation to go. The most damage would have to do to someone like that is break 2 joints or you know run away. That is whole point of Self Defence to defend yourself from harm and doing harm to the person harming you is not the primary aim. If the best option is to give a person your money you do that. That is how Self Defence actually works.

What you describe is overkill.

That's exactly why I said self defence is about the intention, not the action. Of course the best thing to do is simply hand over you wallet and end the confrontation right then. That is exactly what is taught in Krav. It is also taught that not every situation can be solved by being submissive and handing over money. Those are the situations where you are going to have to lash back, often violently, to protect yourself from further harm. You seem to be assuming that Krav and MMA teach people that if someone pushes you, you should start snapping bones and blocking airways.

Which leads right in to self defence laws.

"Equal or lesser force" is widely regarded as the golden rule for self defence. That means that if someone is attacking you with punches, you can't then go an stab them with a weapon. If someone is attacking you, you fight back and they stop attacking, you cannot continue punch to enact a little revenge. So soon as you are no longer in danger, it is no longer self defence. The exception to the rule being "risk of life or limb". If you believe someone intends to kill or cause permenent bodily harm to yourself or someone else, you then have the right to fight back by any means you see fit to remove the danger.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

Yes and anyone who you recommend that to is likely to get done rather than do actual self defence. Seriously I have seen Krav Maga and done real self defence. Aggressive crap like that and what is taught in general MMA styles is no more self defence than trying syllabus moves from Taekwondo or Wado Ryu. Although the former will land you gaol the latter will land you in hospital.

The reason stuff like that is used in military applications is because it is lethal not because it is safe and should be practised by normal people. When stuff like neck breaks and eye gouges are taught as self defence something has gone horribly wrong.

Self defence is self defence pure Traditional Martials as they are without adaptation are not self defence and pure aggressive MMA styles and military close combat style are equally not self defence.

Ok, a guy is coming at you, messed up on Ice, waving a knife with every intention to leave you bleeding in the gutter. Now, Ice is a very fucked up thing, because it means this guy now feels no pain and he isn't going to stop because you throw a few moves at him. You're going to have to break bones and make it do his body physically cannot carry his weight, or so that he can't see and gives you an opening to escape. I for one would rather my mate or girlfriend know something as brutal as krav for when this situation arose. It's a lot better to have to face police and explain your actions than to be zipped up in a black bag.

Example, Rashad Evans, a former UFC champion, was the victim of an attempted mugging late last year. Fortunately, he beat the absolute piss out of this bloke. Funniest mugshot I've seen in a while. No charges of assualt of battery we laid against him because it was "self defence". Self defence is the intention in which you use the martial art, not the martial art itself.

You really don't know self defence laws at all do you? This is not about battery this about murder which is pretty much taught as self defence in Krav Maga. If you were paying a blind bit of attention to what I was saying you would realise Self Defence is a whole different entity to either Traditional or Mixed MA.

If you even knew the first thing about Self Defence you would know that is not the only way for that situation to go. The most damage would have to do to someone like that is break 2 joints or you know run away. That is whole point of Self Defence to defend yourself from harm and doing harm to the person harming you is not the primary aim. If the best option is to give a person your money you do that. That is how Self Defence actually works.

What you describe is overkill.

That's exactly why I said self defence is about the intention, not the action. Of course the best thing to do is simply hand over you wallet and end the confrontation right then. That is exactly what is taught in Krav. It is also taught that not every situation can be solved by being submissive and handing over money. Those are the situations where you are going to have to lash back, often violently, to protect yourself from further harm. You seem to be assuming that Krav and MMA teach people that if someone pushes you, you should start snapping bones and blocking airways.

Which leads right in to self defence laws.

"Equal or lesser force" is widely regarded as the golden rule for self defence. That means that if someone is attacking you with punches, you can't then go an stab them with a weapon. If someone is attacking you, you fight back and they stop attacking, you cannot continue punch to enact a little revenge. So soon as you are no longer in danger, it is no longer self defence. The exception to the rule being "risk of life or limb". If you believe someone intends to kill or cause permenent bodily harm to yourself or someone else, you then have the right to fight back by any means you see fit to remove the danger.

Yes I do assume a lot of MMA and Krav Maga classes do that any I have ever seen or heard about all promote such aggressive faux self defence and unless I am shown otherwise I have no reason to think different.

Yet everything you claim to be only taught in Krav Maga or MMA is also taught in every martial arts club and style ever. You seem to be under the impression that Traditional clubs teach people to use syllabus as Self Defence. Well they don't they teach real self defence. So when all you have seen is eye gouges and over the top neck shots being taught as self defence I think it is fair to say it has coloured my view of those styles(I use the term style loosely for MMA given the nature of it).

 

[Fatboy_41]

Yes and anyone who you recommend that to is likely to get done rather than do actual self defence. Seriously I have seen Krav Maga and done real self defence. Aggressive crap like that and what is taught in general MMA styles is no more self defence than trying syllabus moves from Taekwondo or Wado Ryu. Although the former will land you gaol the latter will land you in hospital.

The reason stuff like that is used in military applications is because it is lethal not because it is safe and should be practised by normal people. When stuff like neck breaks and eye gouges are taught as self defence something has gone horribly wrong.

Self defence is self defence pure Traditional Martials as they are without adaptation are not self defence and pure aggressive MMA styles and military close combat style are equally not self defence.

Ok, a guy is coming at you, messed up on Ice, waving a knife with every intention to leave you bleeding in the gutter. Now, Ice is a very fucked up thing, because it means this guy now feels no pain and he isn't going to stop because you throw a few moves at him. You're going to have to break bones and make it do his body physically cannot carry his weight, or so that he can't see and gives you an opening to escape. I for one would rather my mate or girlfriend know something as brutal as krav for when this situation arose. It's a lot better to have to face police and explain your actions than to be zipped up in a black bag.

Example, Rashad Evans, a former UFC champion, was the victim of an attempted mugging late last year. Fortunately, he beat the absolute piss out of this bloke. Funniest mugshot I've seen in a while. No charges of assualt of battery we laid against him because it was "self defence". Self defence is the intention in which you use the martial art, not the martial art itself.

You really don't know self defence laws at all do you? This is not about battery this about murder which is pretty much taught as self defence in Krav Maga. If you were paying a blind bit of attention to what I was saying you would realise Self Defence is a whole different entity to either Traditional or Mixed MA.

If you even knew the first thing about Self Defence you would know that is not the only way for that situation to go. The most damage would have to do to someone like that is break 2 joints or you know run away. That is whole point of Self Defence to defend yourself from harm and doing harm to the person harming you is not the primary aim. If the best option is to give a person your money you do that. That is how Self Defence actually works.

What you describe is overkill.

That's exactly why I said self defence is about the intention, not the action. Of course the best thing to do is simply hand over you wallet and end the confrontation right then. That is exactly what is taught in Krav. It is also taught that not every situation can be solved by being submissive and handing over money. Those are the situations where you are going to have to lash back, often violently, to protect yourself from further harm. You seem to be assuming that Krav and MMA teach people that if someone pushes you, you should start snapping bones and blocking airways.

Which leads right in to self defence laws.

"Equal or lesser force" is widely regarded as the golden rule for self defence. That means that if someone is attacking you with punches, you can't then go an stab them with a weapon. If someone is attacking you, you fight back and they stop attacking, you cannot continue punch to enact a little revenge. So soon as you are no longer in danger, it is no longer self defence. The exception to the rule being "risk of life or limb". If you believe someone intends to kill or cause permenent bodily harm to yourself or someone else, you then have the right to fight back by any means you see fit to remove the danger.

Yes I do assume a lot of MMA and Krav Maga classes do that any I have ever seen or heard about all promote such aggressive faux self defence and unless I am shown otherwise I have no reason to think different.

Yet everything you claim to be only taught in Krav Maga or MMA is also taught in every martial arts club and style ever. You seem to be under the impression that Traditional clubs teach people to use syllabus as Self Defence. Well they don't they teach real self defence. So when all you have seen is eye gouges and over the top neck shots being taught as self defence I think it is fair to say it has coloured my view of those styles(I use the term style loosely for MMA given the nature of it).

What did I say is only taught in Krav or MMA?

And you've just admitted yourself that all you've seen of Krav is "eye gouges and over the top neck shots". I can understand you're colored view, but I definitely won't accept that it's "fair to say". Fair would be once you've seen the less extreme aspects.

The reason I believe Krav and MMA are the most effective styles for self defence is the sheer variety, and the early UFC tournaments showed that. Pure karate guys fought pure wrestlers who fought pure kick boxers who fought pure jiu-jitsu. There is a reason that the fighters now days train in striking, wrestling, submissions and grappling. It's because no matter how good you can punch, one day you may get taken down. No matter how well you can grapple, one day you may be unable to grapple and be forced to strike. And I'm not talking about in the ring here. Plain and simple, the world is full of people looking to take advantage of weaker people.

Would you rather your daughter get raped, or would you rather she fought back, even if it meant tearing the attackers eye out?

 

[Batou667]

what are your thought on MMA, how is it thuggish if you think it so?

I think it isn't thuggish enough. I want MMA to be Tekken in real life: guys doing off-the-cage backflip kicks, getting caught by a wrestler and German Suplexed into the canvas, that kind of crazy stuff. Back in the very early days of UFC where there were very few rules, it was almost like that.

And then it "evolved" and instead of being an exhibition of one style vs another style, the restrictive rules meant that you could only use ONE boring, homogenised style of competition-specific kickboxing/wrestling if you wanted any chance of winning. No minor joint manipulation means entire styles of martial arts are essentially disqualified from competing. It's just boring now. And don't get me started on the "matches" that are two guys cuddling on the ground for five minutes at a time...

not withstanding the audience, who can't stand the ground game because "it looks gay".

If it looks like a dog, and barks like a dog... just sayin'. Seriously though, the groundwork aspect is the least entertaining part, and only makes sense in the context of a regulated one-on-one competition. In real life, going to ground is an incredibly poor choice... if the guy you're fighting has friends, they won't hesitate to give you a few kicks while you're squirming about trying to use a fancy triangle armbar or whatnot. One of the reasons I quite often watch Pride and K-1 is that a stand-up fight is just better to watch. It'd be interesting to see a variation on K-1 where you can do holds and throws, but restricted to a 5-second window before you have to release.

I also like how it kind of finally exposed how retarded most martial art's "styles" and "systems" actually are. TKD, Judo, Karate... any of them could save your life in a particular situation but none of them are enough for every situation. It's like Bruce Lee's entire philosophy was proved right by a couple dudes in speedoes wailing on each other

If only that were true. I think the opposite is actually the case: TKD and Judo I can't speak for, but I did 8 years of karate and many of the techniques would be illegal in a MMA fight. No open-hand or ridge-hand strikes, no strikes to the eyes, groin or joints, no holds or throws. Karate point-sparring is done padded-up and semi-contact, but karate proper is designed to put your opponent down and with no guarantee of him getting up again.

And, if Bruce Lee were alive today, I fully expect that he'd see MMA as it currently stands as more of a sport than a martial art. Jeet Kun Do emphasises any and all attacks - the eyes and groin being primary targets.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

What did I say is only taught in Krav or MMA?

And you've just admitted yourself that all you've seen of Krav is "eye gouges and over the top neck shots". I can understand you're colored view, but I definitely won't accept that it's "fair to say". Fair would be once you've seen the less extreme aspects.

The reason I believe Krav and MMA are the most effective styles for self defence is the sheer variety, and the early UFC tournaments showed that. Pure karate guys fought pure wrestlers who fought pure kick boxers who fought pure jiu-jitsu. There is a reason that the fighters now days train in striking, wrestling, submissions and grappling. It's because no matter how good you can punch, one day you may get taken down. No matter how well you can grapple, one day you may be unable to grapple and be forced to strike. And I'm not talking about in the ring here. Plain and simple, the world is full of people looking to take advantage of weaker people.

Would you rather your daughter get raped, or would you rather she fought back, even if it meant tearing the attackers eye out?

Yes as a self defence that is all I've ever seen taught in all Krav Maga and MMA classes. No everything is varied Karate has everything from kicks to elbows and grappling if it is not taught that is the fault of the teacher and not the style. MMA people pick and choose certain things from certain styles that focus on certain areas like a wrestling grapple. You will not have any real focus in one area. Krav Maga was made for military applications and a different society not "normal" defence.

You are kinda acting like the children in a self defence class with a ridiculous scenario with only 1 way to get out. That doesn't exist by the way. If someone is taught Self Defence and applies it well they won't get into a rape situation where an eye gouge would be "required" as it would be over beforehand or else they could not perform an eye gouge. Girls have plenty of better option available to them as self defence that guys don't through use of high heels that are more effective than an eye gouge. That is considering the consequences. This hold especially true if someone tries to grab them from behind which even though it seems ridiculous Miss Congeniality actually shows this well. If you happen to have seen it.

Every Traditional Martial Art has their specialisations that is how it is but if they are not given any training in all areas once again that is not the styles fault but the teachers fault. They should teach them proper self defence. This goes for Krav Maga teachers that I have seen that follow the mantra "I'm gonna kick the shit out of you until you bleed out your anus". I'm sure there are fine schools I haven't seen them. If it is fine for you to be under the impression a Traditional or focus style is useless but Krav Maga or MMA can't be too aggressive?

You keep on telling me that the don't have extreme aspects and then you go on to mention an extreme form of self defence that is not necessary. While we're at it lets have our daughters learn to kick and punch people in the spine and crush a wind pipe. Rather than something that won't land you in prison like a shattered knee cap(still a tad extreme), a split muscle, strike to the solar plexus, etc.

I can't even think how and eye gouge would be needed in a rape situation. If you're hands were free a nose strike(slightly upward), lighter neck strike or slowly twisting someone's head would be much better than an eye gouge. The former two both illicit a reaction to move hands to the struck area. A more dangerous could be to "box" ears even that is touch and go as legitimate defence as it can cause deafness. A gouge is a literal last resort self defence not a go to technique.

 

[Something Amyss]

I also enjoy watching specialists from various schools of martial arts fight to see what is most effective.

A shame most of what's unique about various styles is filtered out until we've got the McDonald's version of "mixed" martial arts.

 

[omega 616]

It's a couple of guys beating the crap out of each other for prize money, and there's not much else to it. I mean, there's training, but it's training to beat the crap out of someone for prize money. It's not for self defense, it's not for use in war or in a police situation, it's for actively seeking a fight. I can't say I don't enjoy watching the occasional MMA fight, but come on, it's not exactly the most noble sport on the planet.

I kind of have to disagree there, I am not saying it's chess but there is a touch of nobility to it.

UFC is the modern age gladiatorial pit, just less deathy. Two men who are great fighters step into a cage and one man walks out (except in a draw or crap fight).

Nobles seem to have a bit of a blood lust, boxing is meant to be a noble thing isn't it? So it's not beyond the realms of possibility that they like to see men beat the snot out of each other and nearly break there limbs

 

[emeraldrafael]

Probably because the whole sport revolves around one guy just beating theo ther guy into submission. Not to say thats wrong, but you have people who dont like to call that sport. They're usually called soccer fans.

 

[Fatboy_41]

snip

So you would condemn a woman who has fought off a rapist by eye gouging because she didn't attempt more civilized methods first?

And those situations don' exist? I really wish that were true, but if you haven't heard rape does indeed exist. And, believe it or not, quite often it is a violent act when a much stronger male attacks a weaker female. The weaker female will then rely on ease to attack soft spots like, oh, the eyes.

You're still trying to make it sound like I'm saying more damaging methods like that should be used regardless of the situation, which is simply untrue. If that is the impression you have had from classes you've witnessed, then I would suggest a more respectable school.

Basically, it's the condom principle. I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

 

[enzilewulf]

Finally, your statement ignores the myriad of things which have to happen to even get someone into a submission. Maybe if one guy is trapped in a submission it means he's fucked (and to be fair, most guys are if their opponent gets a submission locked in tight), but just saying that and ignoring everything that has to happen to lead into that person being trapped in a submission quite literally means nothing with regard to how equal the fighters are.

This guy has it nailed. If you were to ever watch UFC you would see that hardly any of the fights ever end in a submission for the plain and simple reason that its hard as fuck to do. There are many steps of the fight leading up to a submission, it just doesn't simply happen in the first 5 seconds for the same reason a K-O doesn't happen in the first 5 seconds of a match.

 

[Saltyk]

I've watched UFC matches. I've even seen a few MMA matches in a local club. I enjoy them. They are a lot of fun. Watching and commenting on the fights, and predicting who will win is pretty fun. How is it any worse than boxing of wrestling? There are rules in place and the people involved are being paid to do something they choose to do. If people don't like it, don't watch it. Simple, right?