How so? It's kinda taught here as a grim reminder of things we should set out not to do again. Unless your schools give a flattering depiction of the star spangled banner swooping in to free helpless people from the oppressive communist regime, I think we are about on the same page.Squid94 said:
How is the Vietnam War taught in the U.S?
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It was taught in my final high school unit on the Cold War. Part of this unit could basically be titled "American diplomacy; how we fucked up", as it focused mainly on our screw ups in places such as Vietnam and the Middle East during the Cold War era. It's definitely not something that was just glossed over.
I'll tell you that it wasn't glossed over.
Basically they describe how it was a major fuck up in the US administration, pretty much no one wanted to be in it. They talk a lot about how irrationally afraid of communism we were.
As for the Search and Destroy thing, I think that's mostly just out of our country prejudice. Yeah, lot's of innocents were killed by the soldiers, but that was based off of poor training and bare minimum control of the people who didn't want to be there in the first place. It was an ugly war.
I think people out of the states seem to think we don't reminisce on our losses, but believe me, we were taught that this was a very bad thing.
Basically they describe how it was a major fuck up in the US administration, pretty much no one wanted to be in it. They talk a lot about how irrationally afraid of communism we were.
As for the Search and Destroy thing, I think that's mostly just out of our country prejudice. Yeah, lot's of innocents were killed by the soldiers, but that was based off of poor training and bare minimum control of the people who didn't want to be there in the first place. It was an ugly war.
I think people out of the states seem to think we don't reminisce on our losses, but believe me, we were taught that this was a very bad thing.
So you know nothing of the war... nice opinon but fact is we were asked to help the French, it was their slice of territory. And when we arrived we were handed a ball to a already lost game.Tsunimo said:
But yeah, I'm all for never helping anyone for asking for help to defend whats theirs, mostly the USA has to fit the bill of life and resources and we always get made the devil afterwards.
Well there you go. I didn't think the US would accept it as a mistake as much as we present it as one when teaching it over here. I thought they might simply, as has been stated in this thread, choose to ignore it to a degree.fooddood3 said:
When i was in school, it was taught pretty thoroughly as an example of failed American anti-Communist policy and lack of understanding of the country and its people. However, what wasn't taught was the actual economic reasons for the war (Dow chemical's extensive holdings that were threatened).
My History teacher actually served in the war, but I don't really remember ever talking about it. We watched a video or two about the political situation but didn't really address the war at all. On the other hand, I was taking an AP class and those always, always gloss over wars and battles.
I don't think we covered it enough. And by that I really mean the Cold War itself. Speaking from my high school experiences, in strictly "history" classes that is. I thought it was fairly atrocious that we only covered the Korean War within a day. That and for Vietnam mostly talked about the reasons for the war and occasionally how the war "drew down" but nothing about defeat or loss- and mostly got caught up in the Civil Rights movement and other counterculture topics that were coming to the forefront around the same time. Both important, but not evenly discussed looking back on it. Not to mention very little about the Soviet's war in Afghanistan, nothing about all the smaller proxy conflicts, nothing about Grenada, Bay of Pigs, very little about Cuban Missile Crisis.
Absolutely nothing, if not footnote mentions of the 1953 Iranian coup or the Iranian Revolution in 1979. Important topics for understanding so much of politics but also how the country conducts policy around the world as well as how it's perceived.
Only when I took AP courses in Am History, Euro History and Comparative Politics that I learned more about these vital topics and issues. Always wondered why they weren't covered in the non-enriched classes- which obviously reached the greater majority of students.
Absolutely nothing, if not footnote mentions of the 1953 Iranian coup or the Iranian Revolution in 1979. Important topics for understanding so much of politics but also how the country conducts policy around the world as well as how it's perceived.
Only when I took AP courses in Am History, Euro History and Comparative Politics that I learned more about these vital topics and issues. Always wondered why they weren't covered in the non-enriched classes- which obviously reached the greater majority of students.
At least in my high school, we spent about a week on it (that's a lot, by the way; we spent about that much on the Revolution or WWII). How it was originally just helping France with a colony and then took the helm against North Vietnam and the various handlings by Presidents, how it helped the hippy movement, etc. while we spent half a class period on the civil rights movement in a different week.
It had a whole chapter in our textbook separate from the rest of the Cold War. My teacher presented it as a failing of kinds, which it was.
It had a whole chapter in our textbook separate from the rest of the Cold War. My teacher presented it as a failing of kinds, which it was.
IN highschool, it depended on the teacher. I had ones where they just told you the major points (starting date, ending date, who won, who lost, and we briefly talked about France's fuck up in the region before the US). I had ones who went into great depths about it, (talking about the politics of the region, why the US failed, why the vietcong were able to hold out so well, how it can be applied today and [then] the war in iraq, and that is still going on in the Middle East).
In my high school, we were a bit odd.
<spoiler=ninth grade>In ninth grade (first year of high school, 14-15 years old), we covered US government, the politics, a greater depth of how laws are made, the checks and balances, how some of the greatest amendments came about, etc.
<spoiler=tenth grade>In tenth grade (second year of highschool, 15-16 years old), we covered colonial foundings, starting wtih 1000 AD, and went up to the civil war, with the last big thing you learned being the utah wars and Buchanan's failure in office. We dealt with things other then the US as well, like the French Revolution, the Spanish Inquisition, the Haitian Rebellion, the introdcution of the magna carta. Just some major things in history that it seemed sorta wrong to gloss over.
- you could also take an optional second history class, which dealt with the general overview of world history, which was very simplistic since there was a lot to cover, and mostly dealth with sociological things more so then the history (which I took as well).
<spoiler=eleventh grade>In eleventh grade (third year, 16-17), you learned about the Civil War, and went up to the end of the korean war as one of the first major conflicts that would be encompassed in the Cold war. There you learned things like the Major politics and battles of the Wars, including the British involvement in Civil War and how it could have been much worse for the Union had they lost a few of the early major battles like Antietam, the realities of Germany being forced to Start WW2, how communism afftected the world at the time, the dick measuring contest the US and the USSR seemed to be waged in and things like the Ghandi leading for a free India.
<spoiler=twelfth grade>In twelfth grade (fourth and final year, 17-18), you learned of after the end of the Korean Wars and up to Present (which we were lucky, we got funding at the time that let us buy the most recent books, instead of having to end at 2008, with the Obama election being the big news (which then was old news by two years). You learned about Viet Nam, about France fucking it up, about America attempting the clean up and again fucking it up, about how actually now having pictures and wide spread media coverage changed the opinion of war and how it would affect its citizens, about how the social movements such as the civil rights and hippie movements changed America. About the Collapse of the USSR, the Nixon debacle and Ford's presidency, the Gulf War and why Bush (sr) wasnt elected into office, and how Clinton gave the country a brief taste of happiness and bliss, about 9/11, the training that the us went through with Osama and how he eventually turned to bite us in the ass, and even some of how Libya is now like it is with the UK setting up that government).
So really you had the chance to learn alot or a little, it just depended on the teacher and the grade youw ere in. You still learned the major points, and (at least at my school) we didnt just gloss over the Viet Nam war (Or the War of 1812 for that matter, though we could have for all that it accomplished and all the pathetically weak reasons the war was even started).
EDIT: edited it with spoilers so its a bit easier to read.
EDIT 2: And honestly, I learned more from my uncles, specifically my one uncle who's always around cause he still lives close since he was in Korea and Viet nam. I had a I think 4 uncles in Korea and three in Viet Nam (including the one who lives close to me) and two that fought in both, and all any of them ever say is we shouldnt have been there and tehy just cant hate the Vietcong for killing Martin (uncle that died in Viet nam). That and my grandfathers always tells them that he pities them for having to fight that war, and by comparison WW2 was the easier war to fight in.
In my high school, we were a bit odd.
<spoiler=ninth grade>In ninth grade (first year of high school, 14-15 years old), we covered US government, the politics, a greater depth of how laws are made, the checks and balances, how some of the greatest amendments came about, etc.
<spoiler=tenth grade>In tenth grade (second year of highschool, 15-16 years old), we covered colonial foundings, starting wtih 1000 AD, and went up to the civil war, with the last big thing you learned being the utah wars and Buchanan's failure in office. We dealt with things other then the US as well, like the French Revolution, the Spanish Inquisition, the Haitian Rebellion, the introdcution of the magna carta. Just some major things in history that it seemed sorta wrong to gloss over.
- you could also take an optional second history class, which dealt with the general overview of world history, which was very simplistic since there was a lot to cover, and mostly dealth with sociological things more so then the history (which I took as well).
<spoiler=eleventh grade>In eleventh grade (third year, 16-17), you learned about the Civil War, and went up to the end of the korean war as one of the first major conflicts that would be encompassed in the Cold war. There you learned things like the Major politics and battles of the Wars, including the British involvement in Civil War and how it could have been much worse for the Union had they lost a few of the early major battles like Antietam, the realities of Germany being forced to Start WW2, how communism afftected the world at the time, the dick measuring contest the US and the USSR seemed to be waged in and things like the Ghandi leading for a free India.
<spoiler=twelfth grade>In twelfth grade (fourth and final year, 17-18), you learned of after the end of the Korean Wars and up to Present (which we were lucky, we got funding at the time that let us buy the most recent books, instead of having to end at 2008, with the Obama election being the big news (which then was old news by two years). You learned about Viet Nam, about France fucking it up, about America attempting the clean up and again fucking it up, about how actually now having pictures and wide spread media coverage changed the opinion of war and how it would affect its citizens, about how the social movements such as the civil rights and hippie movements changed America. About the Collapse of the USSR, the Nixon debacle and Ford's presidency, the Gulf War and why Bush (sr) wasnt elected into office, and how Clinton gave the country a brief taste of happiness and bliss, about 9/11, the training that the us went through with Osama and how he eventually turned to bite us in the ass, and even some of how Libya is now like it is with the UK setting up that government).
So really you had the chance to learn alot or a little, it just depended on the teacher and the grade youw ere in. You still learned the major points, and (at least at my school) we didnt just gloss over the Viet Nam war (Or the War of 1812 for that matter, though we could have for all that it accomplished and all the pathetically weak reasons the war was even started).
EDIT: edited it with spoilers so its a bit easier to read.
EDIT 2: And honestly, I learned more from my uncles, specifically my one uncle who's always around cause he still lives close since he was in Korea and Viet nam. I had a I think 4 uncles in Korea and three in Viet Nam (including the one who lives close to me) and two that fought in both, and all any of them ever say is we shouldnt have been there and tehy just cant hate the Vietcong for killing Martin (uncle that died in Viet nam). That and my grandfathers always tells them that he pities them for having to fight that war, and by comparison WW2 was the easier war to fight in.
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" - George Santanaya, 1905sir.rutthed said:
my teacher just talked about how it was kind of a shitshow, we weren't prepared for the conditions or the VC's fighting strategy. we talked a lot how shitty it was for the soldiers actually.
^This. And it can be argued that wars have been fought for worse reasons. And when we left the people cried and clung to our soldiers begging them not to leave. Yeah we were just awful for Vietnam.sir.rutthed said:
In the UK, i learned that we wouldn't be covering the Vietnam war for a good year in history. So i sat down and watched:
Forest Gump
Full metal Jacket
Apocalypse now
Born on the forth of July
Platoon
If you don't get taught it, then just watch these movies.
Forest Gump
Full metal Jacket
Apocalypse now
Born on the forth of July
Platoon
If you don't get taught it, then just watch these movies.
I really didn't even learn about it in school. We usually learn up to WWII and gloss over the rest, if we even study it at all. My history teacher my senior year, taught us it, and then got chewed out by the higher-ups for not sticking to the required material.