How long should it take for a game to "Open up?"

[More Fun To Compute]

Twenty seconds of skippable tutorial should be enough for any game. After that I can just fall back on a manual or in game help system.

 

[Kagim]

Okay, so maybe the "tutorial" part is a bit unfair (unless the game has a really long one, like Kingdom Hearts II).

I quote this simply because when it comes to 'long' intros KH2 is the shortest long intro ever. Barely taking me an hour, and that's with getting max munny for the minigames. As well if you just head up to Hayner, having done nothing, all you lose is 1 ap bonus and it cuts a good fifteen minutes off the time it takes the intro. As well the intro is fairly rich in story and has really cool scenes.

Spoiler

Like when the program starts to glitch out. Fighting Virus Roxas was pretty cool. In spoilers on the off chance of a future KH2 player screaming bullshit at me for ruining the surprise.

Now, as for the rest of your post. A lot of what you talk about sounds like game progression. For me the intro is the part where nothing major happens and the backstory is introduced. In an FPS its the ten minutes while your walking around getting a feel for the controls. Where as in an RPG its where they throw a series of cut scene battles to catch you up on the story so far.

So, how long should a game take to 'open up'? As long as it takes to not sacrifice story. How long should a game take to be fun? No amount of time. If the first time a player pops in a game and they get bored during the intro your doing it wrong. You should never have to wait to get to the good stuff. You should be swimming in good stuff with the promise of holy-shit-that's-awesome stuff ahead of you. Otherwise known as the Kingdom Hearts strategy.(Yes, i am a fanboy, bite me)

Be it a 10 hour intro or thirty hour intro if your having fun then it doesn't matter. That's the point of a game. To have fun. If your intro is boring the first time then you have made a poor design choice. Players should not have to say "it gets better after the first ten hours" it should be good now and bad ass as the story goes on.

 

[SAMAS]

Okay, so maybe the "tutorial" part is a bit unfair (unless the game has a really long one, like Kingdom Hearts II).

I quote this simply because when it comes to 'long' intros KH2 is the shortest long intro ever. Barely taking me an hour, and that's with getting max munny for the minigames. As well if you just head up to Hayner, having done nothing, all you lose is 1 ap bonus and it cuts a good fifteen minutes off the time it takes the intro. As well the intro is fairly rich in story and has really cool scenes.

Spoiler

Like when the program starts to glitch out. Fighting Virus Roxas was pretty cool. In spoilers on the off chance of a future KH2 player screaming bullshit at me for ruining the surprise.

I didn't say it was necessarily bad (though I didn't like the first part of it), just using it as a well-known example of a game with a long tutorial/prologue.

Now, as for the rest of your post. A lot of what you talk about sounds like game progression. For me the intro is the part where nothing major happens and the backstory is introduced. In an FPS its the ten minutes while your walking around getting a feel for the controls. Where as in an RPG its where they throw a series of cut scene battles to catch you up on the story so far.

So, how long should a game take to 'open up'? As long as it takes to not sacrifice story. How long should a game take to be fun? No amount of time. If the first time a player pops in a game and they get bored during the intro your doing it wrong. You should never have to wait to get to the good stuff. You should be swimming in good stuff with the promise of holy-shit-that's-awesome stuff ahead of you. Otherwise known as the Kingdom Hearts strategy.(Yes, i am a fanboy, bite me)

Be it a 10 hour intro or thirty hour intro if your having fun then it doesn't matter. That's the point of a game. To have fun. If your intro is boring the first time then you have made a poor design choice. Players should not have to say "it gets better after the first ten hours" it should be good now and bad ass as the story goes on.

Game Progression is more my point. A game can still be fun and enjoyable before it opens up, but it's only when the game has opened that you see the game as the creators envisioned. I think so far Lazarus Long put it best: You can still have fun in the initial part of GTA San Andreas, but the game opens up once you can get around the state. That's when SA has opened up.

My personal example is the Disgaea series and NIS' other TRPGs. Once you know what the game is capable of, you find yourself wanting to get on with the various classes, weapons, and techniques, which may take a few chapters of gameplay to get them. The game is still fun before that, but you really wanna get with the reincarnation and customizing.

 

[Kagim]

Now, as for the rest of your post. A lot of what you talk about sounds like game progression. For me the intro is the part where nothing major happens and the backstory is introduced. In an FPS its the ten minutes while your walking around getting a feel for the controls. Where as in an RPG its where they throw a series of cut scene battles to catch you up on the story so far.

So, how long should a game take to 'open up'? As long as it takes to not sacrifice story. How long should a game take to be fun? No amount of time. If the first time a player pops in a game and they get bored during the intro your doing it wrong. You should never have to wait to get to the good stuff. You should be swimming in good stuff with the promise of holy-shit-that's-awesome stuff ahead of you. Otherwise known as the Kingdom Hearts strategy.(Yes, i am a fanboy, bite me)

Be it a 10 hour intro or thirty hour intro if your having fun then it doesn't matter. That's the point of a game. To have fun. If your intro is boring the first time then you have made a poor design choice. Players should not have to say "it gets better after the first ten hours" it should be good now and bad ass as the story goes on.

Game Progression is more my point. A game can still be fun and enjoyable before it opens up, but it's only when the game has opened that you see the game as the creators envisioned. I think so far Lazarus Long put it best: You can still have fun in the initial part of GTA San Andreas, but the game opens up once you can get around the state. That's when SA has opened up.

My personal example is the Disgaea series and NIS' other TRPGs. Once you know what the game is capable of, you find yourself wanting to get on with the various classes, weapons, and techniques, which may take a few chapters of gameplay to get them. The game is still fun before that, but you really wanna get with the reincarnation and customizing.

Well then were in agreement. A game shouldn't have to be fully opened up before its a blast to play. A game should be fun from the moment you press go. Once the game does open up it just becomes even more fun.