How many people know the Bechdel test's original source?

[Relish in Chaos]

I was just wondering, how many people out there (percentage-wise, I guess) actually know the original source of the Bechdel test (and, subsequently, why it shouldn't be used as a legitimate indicator for the sexism, or lack thereof, of a particular film)? Because it seems to have bled out from the internet and into actual newspaper journalism now, and they don't seem to know.

EDIT: Could a moderator or someone else move this to the Off-Topic section, please? I accidentally posted it in the wrong section.

EDIT: I know where it comes from, btw.

 

[hazabaza1]

It was this comic strip:

Not an official report. Not a scientific thing. Just a funny comic that people seem to think is law.

It's a decent thing to apply but some people do take things a little bit too seriously.

 

[Lilani]

I feel like the Bechdel's "test's" journey from the Internet into real journalism is rather like watching a news station making a report on something from The Onion.

But to answer your question, presumably since the Bechdel test came from the Internet and slowly leaked into the news media, and now its source has come from the Internet and is slowly leaking to those on the Internet who are already aware of it, eventually that will also leak to the news media and everybody will be caught up. Some day some pundit like Rush Limbaugh or Bill O'Reilly will report on it and either somebody on their show or people sending them emails will point out the origin, and it will all be a very amusing display.

 

[tippy2k2]

I think you're looking at a tainted jury pool here because Movie Bob did a special on it and sourced where it came from here on The Escapist (not that you can't get your answer here but I would suspect a LOT more people here are going to know versus another site).

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/8695-Blecch-Dull-Tests

I found out about it due to the Big Picture episode on it. If Movie Bob didn't do his video on it, I'd have not known.

 

[nomotog_v1legacy]

It's origins don't determine it's worth as a test. The fact it comes from a lesbian web comic doesn't invalidate it's use as a test. At least not in my viewpoint. You can make very good arguments that it's not a good way to study a movie, but I don't think it's origin is one of them.

 

[EternallyBored]

Edit: The observations made by the Bechdel test actual predate the comic strip by a fair amount of time if the wikipedia page is to believed.

This is true, even before the Bechdel test came about, there were elements in the feminist movement, academia, and Hollywood itself, that were making observations about the stark disparity of female representation in movies, both in character roles and development roles.

The Bechdel test just provided a snappy shorthand for putting that disparity into a more easily comprehensible format. As others here have already stated, using the Bechdel test to call an individual movie sexist is a misapplication of the test, the test only has merit as a tool for seeing the sheer number of movies that fail the test, while reversing the genders causes most movies to suddenly pass the test. It's origin as a comic strip doesn't invalidate the test, because it was never a hard academic tool to begin with. However, trying to turn it into some sort of formalized test is indeed silly.

The test itself gets taken way too seriously by small groups on both sides of the argument. It's a shorthand indicator of a greater trend in Hollywood, that's it, it doesn't carry over well to books, T.V., or video games, and I wish people would stop trying.

 

[Hazy992]

I knew it was from a comic strip (from the 80's I think?), but I couldn't tell you which one.

It was this comic strip:

Not an official report. Not a scientific thing. Just a funny comic that people seem to think is law.

It's a decent thing to apply but some people do take things a little bit too seriously.

Well that clears that one up

 

[Hero in a half shell]

I think you're looking at a tainted jury pool here because Movie Bob did a special on it and sourced where it came from here on The Escapist (not that you can't get your answer here but I would suspect a LOT more people here are going to know versus another site).

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/8695-Blecch-Dull-Tests

I found out about it due to the Big Picture episode on it. If Movie Bob didn't do his video on it, I'd have not known.

I'm the same. It was quite gob-smacking as everyone talked about it in the tones of some sort of doctorate level psychological profiling, and then you discover it's got exactly the same origin story and thought process that went into creating dickwolves and Doge.

Very intellectual
WOW
Much equality

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

So wait, is the OP actually a genetic fallacy [https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/genetic]? The long paragraph explaining how the Bechdel test shouldn't be used is pretty much an attempt at discrediting it, while the question is meant to make people doubt it by virtue of originating from a comic.

As others have said before me, the Bechdel test is a tool that quickly and effectively can show the gross under representation of women in movies (and, as it turns out, in computer games). It serves this purpose quite amicably, which makes its point of origin kind of pointless.

 

[nomotog_v1legacy]

It's origins don't determine it's worth as a test. The fact it comes from a lesbian web comic doesn't invalidate it's use as a test. At least not in my viewpoint. You can make very good arguments that it's not a good way to study a movie, but I don't think it's origin is one of them.

No but the fact I could probably prove "Kevin and Perry go Large" can pass the test while Casablanca and even potentially "the girl with the Dragon Tatoo" can fail kind of hits it pretty hard.

It's not the best test to look at individual movies with. If you want to look at a/one movie, then you can just look at them. The Bechdel test is better when used on really large samples because it's such an easy test.

That said. I think it would be hard for a movie to prominently feature women and then not pass the test.

 

[Shoggoth2588]

Even before that first post, I knew of the test as having originated from a web-comic...this was something I learned recently from either a Moviebob video, a Gaijin Goombah video...game explain maybe...I really don't remember which video opened my eyes to the origins of the test honestly but I did only recently (last couple of months) find out that it came from a comic.

 

[nomotog_v1legacy]

It's not the best test to look at individual movies with. If you want to look at a/one movie, then you can just look at them. The Bechdel test is better when used on really large samples because it's such an easy test.

That said. I think it would be hard for a movie to prominently feature women and then not pass the test.

Pacific Rim failed it with a male and a female protagonist

Yes it did, but I don't know what your trying to say by saying that.

 

[Lilani]

That said. I think it would be hard for a movie to prominently feature women and then not pass the test.

This thread got me to thinking about this today. I'm pretty sure Sex and the City would pass (though I've never seen the film) because inevitably a film with all female leads would have SOME conversation or even a snippet of which isn't directly talking about men. However, I'm pretty sure the Avengers doesn't pass, because even though there are several females who are perfectly capable of handling themselves I don't think they're ever in the same scene together, and thus unable to talk about ANYTHING, much less men.

Moviebob put it very well: while it is an interesting thing to note about a film, that doesn't necessarily say anything about how well the film portrays women. Even though Sex and the City may pass nobody seems to be heralding it as a triumph for women in film, and even though the Avengers doesn't pass I don't think that changes anything about how awesome the Black Widow, Pepper Potts, and that lady who works with Nick Fury are.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I knew about the comic strip, never took the idea of the "test" very seriously.

Even though Sex and the City may pass nobody seems to be heralding it as a triumph for women in film, and even though the Avengers doesn't pass I don't think that changes anything about how awesome the Black Widow, Pepper Potts, and that lady who works with Nick Fury are.

True but then Black Widow, a superheroine equal to all the other super bros, STILL doesn't have her own movie (while everybode else has had origin movies, sequels, trilogies and/or remakes). Six years since Iron Man and poor BW is still playing second banana in boy movies. Pepper Potts kicks ass thanks to some Eleven Hour Super Power in IM3 but she's otherwise stuck as Tony's love interest. And you don't even know the name of "that lady who works with Nick Fury" So no I don't think Marvel has been entirely fair (i.e. not at all) to its female characters.

 

[CarlsonAndPeeters]

I'm the same. It was quite gob-smacking as everyone talked about it in the tones of some sort of doctorate level psychological profiling, and then you discover it's got exactly the same origin story and thought process that went into creating dickwolves and Doge.

Very intellectual
WOW
Much equality

Well it's not quite the same. Alison Bechdel is an incredibly brilliant and talented cartoonist. Fun Home, her autobiographical graphic novel, is one of the best comics ever written in my opinion. She makes jokes, sure, but her work is thought-provoking, moving, and deeply personal. So yes, the idea comes from a comic, but it comes from a comic written by one of the best modern cartoonists. Its like saying that you shouldn't take environmentalism in Calvin and Hobbes seriously, even though I'm sure it had a profound impact on a lot of kids.

And sure, to echo what other people have said, The Bechdel Test doesn't mean "this movie is sexist." But when you look at the entire body of film as a whole and see how few movies pass the "test," its hard to deny that something's wrong.

 

[nomotog_v1legacy]

That said. I think it would be hard for a movie to prominently feature women and then not pass the test.

This thread got me to thinking about this today. I'm pretty sure Sex and the City would pass (though I've never seen the film) because inevitably a film with all female leads would have SOME conversation or even a snippet of which isn't directly talking about men. However, I'm pretty sure the Avengers doesn't pass, because even though there are several females who are perfectly capable of handling themselves I don't think they're ever in the same scene together, and thus unable to talk about ANYTHING, much less men.

Moviebob put it very well: while it is an interesting thing to note about a film, that doesn't necessarily say anything about how well the film portrays women. Even though Sex and the City may pass nobody seems to be heralding it as a triumph for women in film, and even though the Avengers doesn't pass I don't think that changes anything about how awesome the Black Widow, Pepper Potts, and that lady who works with Nick Fury are.

One bit a lot of people get wrong about the test is they have to talk about something other then a man. I take it that they can still talk about men in the general sense so long as they aren't talking about a particular man. The test doesn't tell you what women are portrayed as, just that if they have any role or relationships not directly related to a man.

Sex in the city likely passes. The question would be if it passes the inverse. The avengers doesn't pass. It has black widow, but the other woman isn't even named I think. It also easy easily passes the inverse. My ponder is that the biggest reason most a lot of movies don't pass is simply the lack of female characters.

 

[Queen Michael]

It's origins don't determine it's worth as a test. The fact it comes from a lesbian web comic doesn't invalidate it's use as a test. At least not in my viewpoint. You can make very good arguments that it's not a good way to study a movie, but I don't think it's origin is one of them.

It doesn't come from a webcomic. Dykes To Watch Out For was a print comic back then. And for the record, I've read the entire comic. It's excellent, with lots of good characters.

Sex in the city likely passes. The question would be if it passes the inverse. The avengers doesn't pass. It has black widow, but the other woman isn't even named I think.

Sure she is. Her name is Maria Hill.