How Society Defanged The Vampire

[barbzilla]

Oh god, so much this. This is why as an angsty teen when my angsty friends wanted to play Vampire: The Masquerade I just could not get into it. "Oh woe, we are creatures of the night! We can stay up and do anything we want and our undead state is an automatic diet plan that lets us fit into leather pants and look beautiful unless we want to pick an ugly clan because sometimes it's more fun to be scary. We get powers that humans don't, we get to be the most powerful people in the world, and the downside that costs us our very soul is that we must feed on humans, an inhuman shameful habit that practically gives them an orgasm for free and has no consequences. Then our Storyteller de-fanged it even further by not actually making us roleplay the hunts, because that took too much time away from poncey pale people politicking and poking each other while dramatically flipping their bangs out of their faces, so at the start of each game we just assumed our blood pool was full. No horror, just gothic-superpowered posing.

But when it comes to de-fanging, Vampires ain't got nothing on elves and other denizens of faerie folklore.

Maybe one neat avenue for getting the tooth back in vampires is to play up the generation-gap angle. Make the different vampire denominations have really obnoxious rules they follow for some reason that could maybe reference vampiric folklore, and physically the vampires are under no obligation to follow the rules at all, but they're constantly being watched by more ancient vampires who impose vicious punishments for not following "the rules". Perhaps as the founders age they get more and more detached from humanity so they fixate on rules the way we might fixate on social cues and manners. So like one faction is perfectly able to walk into houses uninvited, but as the founder of that clan fixated on that rule anyone in their bloodline who violates the rule will somehow get caught out by an elder (some kind of psychic bond in the blood) and that elder will torment them in unspeakable ways. Another has no real need to count scattered corn, but their founder became obsessed with numbers and so they are something like undead accountants- constantly getting quizzed by elders about how many of any given thing they encountered until their own sanity breaks under the madness imposed upon them and they become the new masters tormenting the young. In this way vampirism is a metaphor for the kind of bullying that comes with trying to climb a corporate/social ladder- yes there is more power but your life becomes bound to people who don't care about you and who take away your ability to enjoy the power you have.

Interesting idea, I was thinking since the writer mentioned ash something involving the djinn mythos and how trying to take the easy route will end badly

also, how exactly have elves and faerie folklore been neutered? I only know that dwarfs of Norse myth used to be blacksmiths who were scorned by the people who used the weapons and cursed them.

Allow me to answer the Fae question. The main reason elves, and other fae, have been butchered has to do with Tolkenien lore. Since LoTR, it became the standard for how they were treated, and the Shakespearian (as well as the Gaelic) fae have all but vanished. Probably the most notable movie in recent years that used Gaelic lore for the fae was Hellboy 2, and other than that I can't think of anything other than a few eccentric horror movies.

The fae from Hellboy 2, the one who tried to command the golden army and uses the tooth fairy as a weapon to consume people. I certainly find it interesting and different from normal lore but I have a feeling the research needed to get all the details at this point may be more than most of hollywood wants to do

That is part of the problem though. Original ideas are cast out in favor of researched lore based icons. You can take the Fae and do pretty much whatever the hell you want to with them. One of my favorite books was a horror book called Fairy Tale, and the concept is that the Fae world exists, but only as a form of supernatural boogyman. It was well written, and while it did borrow from Gaelic lore, it didn't actually use it.

 

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

Oh god, so much this. This is why as an angsty teen when my angsty friends wanted to play Vampire: The Masquerade I just could not get into it. "Oh woe, we are creatures of the night! We can stay up and do anything we want and our undead state is an automatic diet plan that lets us fit into leather pants and look beautiful unless we want to pick an ugly clan because sometimes it's more fun to be scary. We get powers that humans don't, we get to be the most powerful people in the world, and the downside that costs us our very soul is that we must feed on humans, an inhuman shameful habit that practically gives them an orgasm for free and has no consequences. Then our Storyteller de-fanged it even further by not actually making us roleplay the hunts, because that took too much time away from poncey pale people politicking and poking each other while dramatically flipping their bangs out of their faces, so at the start of each game we just assumed our blood pool was full. No horror, just gothic-superpowered posing.

But when it comes to de-fanging, Vampires ain't got nothing on elves and other denizens of faerie folklore.

Maybe one neat avenue for getting the tooth back in vampires is to play up the generation-gap angle. Make the different vampire denominations have really obnoxious rules they follow for some reason that could maybe reference vampiric folklore, and physically the vampires are under no obligation to follow the rules at all, but they're constantly being watched by more ancient vampires who impose vicious punishments for not following "the rules". Perhaps as the founders age they get more and more detached from humanity so they fixate on rules the way we might fixate on social cues and manners. So like one faction is perfectly able to walk into houses uninvited, but as the founder of that clan fixated on that rule anyone in their bloodline who violates the rule will somehow get caught out by an elder (some kind of psychic bond in the blood) and that elder will torment them in unspeakable ways. Another has no real need to count scattered corn, but their founder became obsessed with numbers and so they are something like undead accountants- constantly getting quizzed by elders about how many of any given thing they encountered until their own sanity breaks under the madness imposed upon them and they become the new masters tormenting the young. In this way vampirism is a metaphor for the kind of bullying that comes with trying to climb a corporate/social ladder- yes there is more power but your life becomes bound to people who don't care about you and who take away your ability to enjoy the power you have.

Interesting idea, I was thinking since the writer mentioned ash something involving the djinn mythos and how trying to take the easy route will end badly

also, how exactly have elves and faerie folklore been neutered? I only know that dwarfs of Norse myth used to be blacksmiths who were scorned by the people who used the weapons and cursed them.

Allow me to answer the Fae question. The main reason elves, and other fae, have been butchered has to do with Tolkenien lore. Since LoTR, it became the standard for how they were treated, and the Shakespearian (as well as the Gaelic) fae have all but vanished. Probably the most notable movie in recent years that used Gaelic lore for the fae was Hellboy 2, and other than that I can't think of anything other than a few eccentric horror movies.

The fae from Hellboy 2, the one who tried to command the golden army and uses the tooth fairy as a weapon to consume people. I certainly find it interesting and different from normal lore but I have a feeling the research needed to get all the details at this point may be more than most of hollywood wants to do

That is part of the problem though. Original ideas are cast out in favor of researched lore based icons. You can take the Fae and do pretty much whatever the hell you want to with them. One of my favorite books was a horror book called Fairy Tale, and the concept is that the Fae world exists, but only as a form of supernatural boogyman. It was well written, and while it did borrow from Gaelic lore, it didn't actually use it.

I see that is a valid method of using ideas, hell, Toaru Majutsu no Index uses religious myths and imagery and combines them into magic that makes connections to the source myth in weirdly bizarre but logical ways. I suppose that imagination is a good thing to have but lets first introduce the original form of the myths to the mass public before letting people run wild with their applciation.

 

[barbzilla]

Oh god, so much this. This is why as an angsty teen when my angsty friends wanted to play Vampire: The Masquerade I just could not get into it. "Oh woe, we are creatures of the night! We can stay up and do anything we want and our undead state is an automatic diet plan that lets us fit into leather pants and look beautiful unless we want to pick an ugly clan because sometimes it's more fun to be scary. We get powers that humans don't, we get to be the most powerful people in the world, and the downside that costs us our very soul is that we must feed on humans, an inhuman shameful habit that practically gives them an orgasm for free and has no consequences. Then our Storyteller de-fanged it even further by not actually making us roleplay the hunts, because that took too much time away from poncey pale people politicking and poking each other while dramatically flipping their bangs out of their faces, so at the start of each game we just assumed our blood pool was full. No horror, just gothic-superpowered posing.

But when it comes to de-fanging, Vampires ain't got nothing on elves and other denizens of faerie folklore.

Maybe one neat avenue for getting the tooth back in vampires is to play up the generation-gap angle. Make the different vampire denominations have really obnoxious rules they follow for some reason that could maybe reference vampiric folklore, and physically the vampires are under no obligation to follow the rules at all, but they're constantly being watched by more ancient vampires who impose vicious punishments for not following "the rules". Perhaps as the founders age they get more and more detached from humanity so they fixate on rules the way we might fixate on social cues and manners. So like one faction is perfectly able to walk into houses uninvited, but as the founder of that clan fixated on that rule anyone in their bloodline who violates the rule will somehow get caught out by an elder (some kind of psychic bond in the blood) and that elder will torment them in unspeakable ways. Another has no real need to count scattered corn, but their founder became obsessed with numbers and so they are something like undead accountants- constantly getting quizzed by elders about how many of any given thing they encountered until their own sanity breaks under the madness imposed upon them and they become the new masters tormenting the young. In this way vampirism is a metaphor for the kind of bullying that comes with trying to climb a corporate/social ladder- yes there is more power but your life becomes bound to people who don't care about you and who take away your ability to enjoy the power you have.

Interesting idea, I was thinking since the writer mentioned ash something involving the djinn mythos and how trying to take the easy route will end badly

also, how exactly have elves and faerie folklore been neutered? I only know that dwarfs of Norse myth used to be blacksmiths who were scorned by the people who used the weapons and cursed them.

Allow me to answer the Fae question. The main reason elves, and other fae, have been butchered has to do with Tolkenien lore. Since LoTR, it became the standard for how they were treated, and the Shakespearian (as well as the Gaelic) fae have all but vanished. Probably the most notable movie in recent years that used Gaelic lore for the fae was Hellboy 2, and other than that I can't think of anything other than a few eccentric horror movies.

The fae from Hellboy 2, the one who tried to command the golden army and uses the tooth fairy as a weapon to consume people. I certainly find it interesting and different from normal lore but I have a feeling the research needed to get all the details at this point may be more than most of hollywood wants to do

That is part of the problem though. Original ideas are cast out in favor of researched lore based icons. You can take the Fae and do pretty much whatever the hell you want to with them. One of my favorite books was a horror book called Fairy Tale, and the concept is that the Fae world exists, but only as a form of supernatural boogyman. It was well written, and while it did borrow from Gaelic lore, it didn't actually use it.

I see that is a valid method of using ideas, hell, Toaru Majutsu no Index uses religious myths and imagery and combines them into magic that makes connections to the source myth in weirdly bizarre but logical ways. I suppose that imagination is a good thing to have but lets first introduce the original form of the myths to the mass public before letting people run wild with their applciation.

It isn't necessary though. As long as the media in question properly explains the concept, it doesn't matter if the audience has any foreknowledge of the beast in question. At that point it becomes almost like an easter egg for those in the know, while still being purposeful in the format it is being used in. I say imagination and intelligence in my entertainment are my two most important things I look for.

 

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

Oh god, so much this. This is why as an angsty teen when my angsty friends wanted to play Vampire: The Masquerade I just could not get into it. "Oh woe, we are creatures of the night! We can stay up and do anything we want and our undead state is an automatic diet plan that lets us fit into leather pants and look beautiful unless we want to pick an ugly clan because sometimes it's more fun to be scary. We get powers that humans don't, we get to be the most powerful people in the world, and the downside that costs us our very soul is that we must feed on humans, an inhuman shameful habit that practically gives them an orgasm for free and has no consequences. Then our Storyteller de-fanged it even further by not actually making us roleplay the hunts, because that took too much time away from poncey pale people politicking and poking each other while dramatically flipping their bangs out of their faces, so at the start of each game we just assumed our blood pool was full. No horror, just gothic-superpowered posing.

But when it comes to de-fanging, Vampires ain't got nothing on elves and other denizens of faerie folklore.

Maybe one neat avenue for getting the tooth back in vampires is to play up the generation-gap angle. Make the different vampire denominations have really obnoxious rules they follow for some reason that could maybe reference vampiric folklore, and physically the vampires are under no obligation to follow the rules at all, but they're constantly being watched by more ancient vampires who impose vicious punishments for not following "the rules". Perhaps as the founders age they get more and more detached from humanity so they fixate on rules the way we might fixate on social cues and manners. So like one faction is perfectly able to walk into houses uninvited, but as the founder of that clan fixated on that rule anyone in their bloodline who violates the rule will somehow get caught out by an elder (some kind of psychic bond in the blood) and that elder will torment them in unspeakable ways. Another has no real need to count scattered corn, but their founder became obsessed with numbers and so they are something like undead accountants- constantly getting quizzed by elders about how many of any given thing they encountered until their own sanity breaks under the madness imposed upon them and they become the new masters tormenting the young. In this way vampirism is a metaphor for the kind of bullying that comes with trying to climb a corporate/social ladder- yes there is more power but your life becomes bound to people who don't care about you and who take away your ability to enjoy the power you have.

Interesting idea, I was thinking since the writer mentioned ash something involving the djinn mythos and how trying to take the easy route will end badly

also, how exactly have elves and faerie folklore been neutered? I only know that dwarfs of Norse myth used to be blacksmiths who were scorned by the people who used the weapons and cursed them.

Allow me to answer the Fae question. The main reason elves, and other fae, have been butchered has to do with Tolkenien lore. Since LoTR, it became the standard for how they were treated, and the Shakespearian (as well as the Gaelic) fae have all but vanished. Probably the most notable movie in recent years that used Gaelic lore for the fae was Hellboy 2, and other than that I can't think of anything other than a few eccentric horror movies.

The fae from Hellboy 2, the one who tried to command the golden army and uses the tooth fairy as a weapon to consume people. I certainly find it interesting and different from normal lore but I have a feeling the research needed to get all the details at this point may be more than most of hollywood wants to do

That is part of the problem though. Original ideas are cast out in favor of researched lore based icons. You can take the Fae and do pretty much whatever the hell you want to with them. One of my favorite books was a horror book called Fairy Tale, and the concept is that the Fae world exists, but only as a form of supernatural boogyman. It was well written, and while it did borrow from Gaelic lore, it didn't actually use it.

I see that is a valid method of using ideas, hell, Toaru Majutsu no Index uses religious myths and imagery and combines them into magic that makes connections to the source myth in weirdly bizarre but logical ways. I suppose that imagination is a good thing to have but lets first introduce the original form of the myths to the mass public before letting people run wild with their application.

It isn't necessary though. As long as the media in question properly explains the concept, it doesn't matter if the audience has any foreknowledge of the beast in question. At that point it becomes almost like an easter egg for those in the know, while still being purposeful in the format it is being used in. I say imagination and intelligence in my entertainment are my two most important things I look for.

I suppose but I do still want people to be more educated in the older stuff if not for future application for the sake of preserving older myths but that's a sentament that might be hard to share.

 

[Lupine]

snip

I kind have to disagree here too, as a guy that has played alot of World of Darkness, the point of Vampire isn't really "Woe is me because I'm a vampire. With all of these advantages." Instead it is more like. "Woe is me, I live in a tyrannical monarchy and depending on how my particular clan fits into the world in relation to the King's people, well I'm either an outcast, hated (which can lead to heavy political pressure if you're lucky or just plain being murdered if you're not), and ignored.

Then to make things interesting they add a dash of "oh by the way, your clan also has character flaws" flaws that make you more likely to be attracted to certain types of things and depending on your moral alignment as a human being you suddenly might jump from being an average joe to being a horrific sociopath and people manipulator, a horrible disfigured monster that should never have contact with people, stark raving mad and violent with it, an animal in human skin just short of running down and chewing on the first little old lady you see, or you just become a super fascist with a highlighted copy of ‎Machiavelli's the Prince tattooed on your brain.

Also, you eat people. Sure you can choose not to kill them, but you still have to come to terms with attacking and victimizing them on a regular basis and on top of that some people are going to die anyway. On top of that you never know who is watching. Even if you spare the life of the feed basket of the night, what about the street kid wandering around alleys that might have saw you? If he gets away what are you going to do about him and the people he tells? This sort of thing is a violation of the Masquerade and depending on who is in charge that means they might just cut your head off and throw you in a ditch if they find out or you could murder a whole vagrant colony to save your own life. Are you the kind of person that is okay with that? You are a blood sucking monster, but even evil has standards or in WoD at least.

Sure you're immortal and have powers, but that guy whom basically is always King George-ing you at every turn is also and his powers are probably better or else he'd have been overthrown by some other equally horrible person with better powers and even less morals.

Going from what you said about your GM, though I figure it was less that the vampires are by and large terrible and de-fanged but more that your GM wasn't very good at letting you and your group explore all that it means to be a vampire in the WoD and instead it became politics the game...which honestly is always boring to me by itself.

I've had a game where while there were politics flowing, I as the owner of a particular territory had to deal with a cabal of serial killers haunting my nightclub while simultaneously kissing backside up the ladder to avoid close scrutiny both by the vampire "authorities" and the actual human ones. The murders while human enough, involved the victims being bled dry...so yeah the city's Prince wouldn't have been happy with that one a bit and being in charge I get to bite the bullet and handle it while glad handing him.

It is true that in Vampire you are stronger than a single human (for the most part *cough* Hunter *cough* Mage *cough* any other book that your GM wants to run parallel to your own), but that is sort of the point. Because that power tends to make you complacent and it hits much harder when you realize that even with super speed and telekinesis you really can't fight City Hall or much of human society at all for that matter unless you're willing to kick the Masquerade in the teeth and deal with the horrible horrible consequences later and maybe die anyway and take a lot of other people with you.

All of that was the long way of saying, I think it was your GM's fault you didn't really enjoy the game. You can just not like vampires sure enough, but there is nothing in the game rules that makes you a bunch of pretty emo kids and a friend of mine and I actually played twin brothers and used clan and ideological difference as sort of a deconstruction of one another's character. It was pretty fun.

 

[vid87]

Seduction isn't looked down upon anymore, and love is no longer required for sex. The amazing thing to me is that this is supposedly progressive - modern feminism for example celebrates women seducing men as representing "female empowerment", not as something terribly wrong on a basic moral level. Modern feminism doesn't seem to care or maybe even to understand that sex between people who don't love each other is traumatic, and degrades the people regardless of whether those people are sufficiently in touch with their own feelings to notice or whether they've been convinced by a pro-seduction society into believing it's right.

Back when seduction was deemed immoral, Vampires were symbols of that very immorality. That was WHY they had to hide in the shadows, have secret societies, and the like - because seduction was not permitted in society.

Lots of things have been deemed immoral at some point in history and now the majority of us agree they're just fine and not harmful. Homosexuality, sex outside of wedlock, interacial relationships. Sex is no longer something to put on a pedestel, to be saved and remain "pure" for that one special someone. We're thankfully past the point where purity in relationship to your genetalia is linked to your value. It's recognised as BS in most of the civilised world. Thankfully weve moved away from the idea that women need to be virgins on their wedding day to have worth.

You are right, love doesnt have to be twinned with sex although its awesome when it is. Sex between consenting adults is far from traumatic or degrading, at least how Ive done it. You dont have to be in love with someone, just be honest and have fun so people dont get hurt.

I've had sex with people where we both knew it was for a short period and going no where, but it was enjoyable while it lasted and we both got what we were after. Equally Ive had sex with some once and never again. It made for an entertaining evening. Just dont tell people you love them when you dont and dont "play" with people who love you. Honesty is key and Ive neither been degraded or traumatised.

In essence I think this is why the entire concept has done a 180 - instead of treating vampirism as that blasphemous damning thing, it's now a symbol of liberation (hence the focus on maintaining youth as a reason for turning). No offense BJJ, if that's what you do that's fine but personally I can't get into that mindset in terms of separating emotion attachment and physicality - I simply don't think I'm built that way.

I still think, even if it's a nasty subject, that abuse and manipulation is the way vampires can be seen as scary, mainly as a symbol for the "player" types who put on acts and read into "female psychology" just to sleep with them - you know the whole thing about appearing nice and then slowly chipping away at their confidence like making degrading but neutral remarks about their appearance. The vampire would basically become more of a snake than a bat, feeding people lies and illusions until they attack.

 

[Wall Meat]

The relation of horror monsters and tropes to real life is a fascinating one to me. The upsurge of aliens during the Cold War, the rise of the zombie as we became a more alienated, consumer-oriented culture... With all of the recent uprisings and troubles that've marred the world as of late, I'm surprised that there hasn't been something like the fext making an entrance, an allegory for how even though conflict subsides, it never really seems to die.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fext

 

[Tsaba]

well, to be fair, horror genre in general has honestly lost it's way and is rediscovering itself. I'm optimistic that someone will find a way to make vampires relevant again, but, until then, here's a funny picture:

 

[Ghadente]

When i think vampire, i think of Dracula. Old time vampires that hold up in far off castles, only come out at night, can transform into bats, are dark, brooding, blood sucking, semi-loners, and have fangs (of course). They can choose to drain your blood or allow you to become one of them. They are generally nightmarish creatures whose souls have been damned, cursed or infected. Just like nay other creature, they can be a proponent for good, evil, or many cases a bit of both. A few weaknesses are garlic, holy water, pierced through the heart or head decapitation. Oh yeah, and sunlight.

There are many version of modern vampires. Some take from the classic lore and some stray and/or twist it. Some version i highly disregard such as Twilight vampires, just plain ridiculous and lame. Others like Blade, and most recently the Strain types keep it interesting. I have been watching the Strain and I enjoy the show, I feel the vampires are a bit like zombies. The show is like the Walking Dead with vampires.

 

[Nurb]

Well defanged the male vampires into teenage looking femmy-boys anyway, the most dangerous ones are female now because they still use sexuality to lure and kill mortal men most visciously!

 

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

The fae from Hellboy 2, the one who tried to command the golden army and uses the tooth fairy as a weapon to consume people. I certainly find it interesting and different from normal lore but I have a feeling the research needed to get all the details at this point may be more than most of hollywood wants to do

I think Hellboy 2 is the exception that proved the rule. The creatures in that were exactly what I want in modern depictions of faerie. Princess Nuala is simultaneously beautiful and deeply disturbing to look at. Her brother Nuada is grand but also wrong, and also very frightening because his drive and ambition are able to be rationally understood but also insane. If Guillermo del Toro knows anything, it's how to put the spook back in spooky folk-lore.

Part of the problem is that "faerie" isn't identifiable as a single category of creature. It's a word we invented to describe a category of mythological creatures dating back to the nymphs of Greek mythology... creatures that may have a form, but aren't truly biological in the way we think of werewolves and vampires and zombies today. Creatures that are a kind of spirit, but not generally ephemeral or part of a heavenly war like ghosts, angels, or demons. They're close enough to people that they follow some of the rules of human society, but different enough that they might drown you in a river if you get too close or steal your children if you don't treat them right. Or they'll invite you to a party in their magical realm where time doesn't flow the way it does in your own, until you've aged 300 years in three days and must spend the rest of your life riding a horse because if your foot ever touches the ground those 300 years will catch up to you and you'll instantly crumble to dust.

Today, most fairies are not frightening. Fairies are giggly little sprites like Tinkerbell. Elves are stupid little servants that make toys for Santa. TSR tried to adopt a little of Tolkiens gradiosity for their Elves, but I don't feel they've been very successful.

I haven't put the kind of research into this that Rath has, so I don't know if I can give a theory about what the faerie used to represent that we're not afraid of now. But whatever it is, we've lost it, and taking our pop-culture folk lore as an aggregate, aside from a few luminaries like Del Toro we just plain don't know how to make a fairy compelling in modern culture. Whatever the reason, we've got enough Manic Pixie Dream Girls to turn it into a trope, but we don't know how to make an actual pixie compelling.

So you want creatures that are both disturbing and ethereal in their beauty, grander than humans but still afflicted with their sins. Creatures of solidified magic and disturbing in how they are simultaneously human and not human.

I can certainly see the difficulty in those stories. The closest to stuff like that is probably modern Japanese mythical interpretations and even they have become neutered in some aspects. I suppose that this is how time modifies myths for good and ill.

This begs a question: are there cultural lines on how past myths are adapted. In anime like Fate or Toaru Majutsu no Index, they seem to take the idea of the original myths and extrapolate outward making so that they are somewhat true to the source but also extremely different; though as I have stated, beings like kappa and youkai have been neutered to a great extent in pop culture (Touhou anyone). America seems to homogenize to a great extent and make the creatures far from the original. Of course, this is only my observation so any insight from you would be appreciated.

(sorry about the flowery dialogue, Was watching Fate/zero when I say you reply and was thinking along the lines of how they adapt myths and legends-true to the source but with the wildest extrapolation)

 

[Rahkshi500]

snip

I kind have to disagree here too, as a guy that has played alot of World of Darkness, the point of Vampire isn't really "Woe is me because I'm a vampire. With all of these advantages." Instead it is more like. "Woe is me, I live in a tyrannical monarchy and depending on how my particular clan fits into the world in relation to the King's people, well I'm either an outcast, hated (which can lead to heavy political pressure if you're lucky or just plain being murdered if you're not), and ignored.

In my experience with World of Darkness, it's a bit of both. After reading Vampire: The Requiem, it was both a case of living in a tyrannical secret society of messed up politics as well as the personal horror of being a vampire. Yeah, you get all kinds of advantages, but the whole point is if you're willing to bare with the price of it all; drinking the blood of mortals in this setting is akin to an addiction. It feels good and refreshing, but it has consequences. You'll find yourself desiring more and more than your natural need, and it can become highly unhealthy and destructive to both you and to others around you, and it can mess up your conscious and sense of reasoning, very much like real-life addictions.

In response to Danger's remark about fairies, I will say that I also love Changeling: The Lost, since it helped brought back a lot of fear and superstition that fairies use to have back in the old days.

 

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

So you want creatures that are both disturbing and ethereal in their beauty, grander than humans but still afflicted with their sins. Creatures of solidified magic and disturbing in how they are simultaneously human and not human.

Yup, pretty much. Faeries should dwell in the uncanny valley. As for what they're made of, I always get the vibe with good depictions of faeries that questions like that shouldn't matter. When you look at a well-written faerie if you're spending time thinking about how they work the same way we try to come up with explanations for how vampires and zombies work, I feel like the author hasn't truly created the right mood.

The closest to stuff like that is probably modern Japanese mythical interpretations and even they have become neutered in some aspects. I suppose that this is how time modifies myths for good and ill.

You mean yokai? Yeah, I don't know those stories very well but I get a very faerie vibe off of some of them. The thing is, as a westerner raised outside of a Japanese cultural context, I'm not sure I can look at something like and its anus-sucking horror and not giggle uncontrollably.

This begs a question: are there cultural lines on how past myths are adapted. In anime like Fate or Toaru Majutsu no Index, they seem to take the idea of the original myths and extrapolate outward making so that they are somewhat true to the source but also extremely different; though as I have stated, beings like kappa and youkai have been neutered to a great extent in pop culture (Touhou anyone). America seems to homogenize to a great extent and make the creatures far from the original. Of course, this is only my observation so any insight from you would be appreciated.

I don't know if I know enough about anime or manga to speculate, but I do actually want to know more about Yokai folklore that if it's easy enough maybe even to use for Japanese language practice. If anyone has any recommendations, I'd be happy to hear them.

Anyway, it was an interesting talk but I

I can understand the need for the uncanny valley and the fact that good depictions will negate the need for intricate details on their physiology but I'm the type that likes looking at images and stories and finding out the mechanics of how they work. but that's a personal thing and your statement is agreeable

yeah, I admit some yokai myths are abnormal like the one you mentioned but from what I remember, yokai myths were supposed to be like ghost stories told to scare and frighten and that modern versions are similar to the Himiko in the toilet story and other stories involving deformed murder victims. Rath himself made a Critical Intel about it a while ago here [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/columns/criticalintel/10017-Cuddly-Pokemon-and-the-Demons-That-Spawned-Them]