How Videogames Can Help Your Boss Understand You
- Thread starter John Funk
- Start date
Some thoughts on the video:
1) All managers and authority figures should remember their own youth. We all fall prey to that "darn kids" syndrome where it's only this new generation that's a problem and somehow we are convinced we gave 110% when we really were more concerned in getting laid ourselves. The greatest generation villified the boomers. the boomers villify gen X. Gen X villifies Gen , and Gen Y will villify whatever comes next. The best bosses I've had are the ones that remember that we were all dumb kids at one point.
2) Much as above, employers shouldn't expect their employees to be willing to give that 100% percent on your terms. We all have lives and concernes outside the office. We all have dreams for life and career beyond doing the entry job, and surprise, the more menial the job, the less likely we want to be doing it. News flash: all those interviewees coming in saying how much they want the job and specifically to work for you....full of liers just wanting a paycheck or step in the career lader their last employer wouldn't provide. Yes, it can be all around the employees, but it can't be all around you either.
3) Feedback and rewards are easier to deliver on that one might think. If I'm told I'm not performing as well as I should be, fine, but I need something to shoot for, and idealy that something should be identifiable within the organization. Any good HR person should be able to tell you specific goals are better as they can be worked toward and acheived. Telling me to improve my productivity means little. Telling me my co-worker got a raise and I didn't because he/she had twice my output in the same time gives me a specific goal to work toward, and sounds a lot less like BS motivational crap everyone gets told (no offense to how hard cEOs work, but it often isn't verifiable by front line employees so it sounds like "I walked 50 miles to school uphill boths ways) level crap). As far as imediate rewards, well their is a simple gaming bridge for this in that most games have some tiered level of rewards (ie: jsut beating a game vs. unlocking everything vs total mastery). Simply point out you don't get the best reward for the bronze medal or C rank. You need gold or S rank. Though on a personal note, rewards can be simple. My morale would go up majorly if the bigger pains would say thank you every so often. I don't care if I do work for you, there's still common courtasy, especially if what you've asked is a lot of work over my normal job description.
4) Remember we are a product of our culture, not just a part of it. It's easy to blame video games, but ideas like greed, disloyalty, and getting a lot for doing little are lessons that persist throughout society. Self-help success books are full of them as pop culture jumps on any rags to riches story. Fiction portrays unrealistic expectations of wealth and success, while reality's CEOs can be the biggest promoters of money first, quality of work and company loyalty last. We are what we have been made, and can not be unmade by shear will while what made us is still forming us. I dont' relly have a soultion here except that if you want output A, you have to promote and reward output A, not output B, and if my runnings through financial and political blogs is any indication, entitlement is the one mindest that is share by all levels of worker, income, or status. We all think we deserve it all.
1) All managers and authority figures should remember their own youth. We all fall prey to that "darn kids" syndrome where it's only this new generation that's a problem and somehow we are convinced we gave 110% when we really were more concerned in getting laid ourselves. The greatest generation villified the boomers. the boomers villify gen X. Gen X villifies Gen , and Gen Y will villify whatever comes next. The best bosses I've had are the ones that remember that we were all dumb kids at one point.
2) Much as above, employers shouldn't expect their employees to be willing to give that 100% percent on your terms. We all have lives and concernes outside the office. We all have dreams for life and career beyond doing the entry job, and surprise, the more menial the job, the less likely we want to be doing it. News flash: all those interviewees coming in saying how much they want the job and specifically to work for you....full of liers just wanting a paycheck or step in the career lader their last employer wouldn't provide. Yes, it can be all around the employees, but it can't be all around you either.
3) Feedback and rewards are easier to deliver on that one might think. If I'm told I'm not performing as well as I should be, fine, but I need something to shoot for, and idealy that something should be identifiable within the organization. Any good HR person should be able to tell you specific goals are better as they can be worked toward and acheived. Telling me to improve my productivity means little. Telling me my co-worker got a raise and I didn't because he/she had twice my output in the same time gives me a specific goal to work toward, and sounds a lot less like BS motivational crap everyone gets told (no offense to how hard cEOs work, but it often isn't verifiable by front line employees so it sounds like "I walked 50 miles to school uphill boths ways) level crap). As far as imediate rewards, well their is a simple gaming bridge for this in that most games have some tiered level of rewards (ie: jsut beating a game vs. unlocking everything vs total mastery). Simply point out you don't get the best reward for the bronze medal or C rank. You need gold or S rank. Though on a personal note, rewards can be simple. My morale would go up majorly if the bigger pains would say thank you every so often. I don't care if I do work for you, there's still common courtasy, especially if what you've asked is a lot of work over my normal job description.
4) Remember we are a product of our culture, not just a part of it. It's easy to blame video games, but ideas like greed, disloyalty, and getting a lot for doing little are lessons that persist throughout society. Self-help success books are full of them as pop culture jumps on any rags to riches story. Fiction portrays unrealistic expectations of wealth and success, while reality's CEOs can be the biggest promoters of money first, quality of work and company loyalty last. We are what we have been made, and can not be unmade by shear will while what made us is still forming us. I dont' relly have a soultion here except that if you want output A, you have to promote and reward output A, not output B, and if my runnings through financial and political blogs is any indication, entitlement is the one mindest that is share by all levels of worker, income, or status. We all think we deserve it all.
As a second-wave Gen-Xer, I'll be happy to fill the positions offered by companies who don't want to work with Millennials, but unless managers want to outsource everything to the Third World, someone is going to have to figure out how to herd cats and make a profit doing so.
I'm in a management class at college and stuff like this comes up all the time. I think I'll send a link to this talk to my professor---she'll appreciate it.
I'm in a management class at college and stuff like this comes up all the time. I think I'll send a link to this talk to my professor---she'll appreciate it.
I'm looking forward to watching the vid; maybe later on tonight.
I have to wonder, though, whether this isn't a 'Lord protect us from our friends' moment.
See, for me, if I were coming in cold to this debate, my initial reaction (based on the write-up - again, I haven't seen the vid yet) would be something like this:
"No, videogames aren't murder trainers or porn simulators. You're smarter than that, Bob; you always knew that was baloney, right? Yeah, I figured. Good for you. See, what videogames do is, they train you to be a narcissist. Complete lack of empathy, the whole nine yards. Yeah, like that kid at work, you know, the one whose hand has to be held every step of the way (like you have nothing better to do), because if you don't his ego will crumble when he realizes the world doesn't revolve around him. The one who already has a verbal warning and is on his way to a written. Yeah, that was videogames. Like that xbox you bought the kids last christmas, you know? But don't worry, Bob. I have some tips for you. You know, for after they've been ruined . . ."
I'm kinda hoping the video changes that initial view.
edit (having seen the video): oh good.
View changed.
I have to wonder, though, whether this isn't a 'Lord protect us from our friends' moment.
See, for me, if I were coming in cold to this debate, my initial reaction (based on the write-up - again, I haven't seen the vid yet) would be something like this:
"No, videogames aren't murder trainers or porn simulators. You're smarter than that, Bob; you always knew that was baloney, right? Yeah, I figured. Good for you. See, what videogames do is, they train you to be a narcissist. Complete lack of empathy, the whole nine yards. Yeah, like that kid at work, you know, the one whose hand has to be held every step of the way (like you have nothing better to do), because if you don't his ego will crumble when he realizes the world doesn't revolve around him. The one who already has a verbal warning and is on his way to a written. Yeah, that was videogames. Like that xbox you bought the kids last christmas, you know? But don't worry, Bob. I have some tips for you. You know, for after they've been ruined . . ."
I'm kinda hoping the video changes that initial view.
edit (having seen the video): oh good.
View changed.
Sure, except for the fact that you have no idea what you're talking about that makes complete sense.John Funk said:
You seem to be under the impression that an entire generation of people have the same personality or work ethic. Do you also think that the placemats in Chinese restaurants that give a description of who you are based on what year you are born in are accurate?
Also, it's good to let your employees know that while they are valued, they are valued for the work that they do. The best way to do that is to terminate those employees who don't put in the requisite effort. And since no one in their right mind is going to be citing a labor shortage as reason to not fire someone (they'd have to be an imbecile to even think there will be one), we all know that there is always someone more qualified out there who will actually work for their money.
So, yeah. Fire the lazy wastes of money.
I do, actually. Do you?OANST said:
My (and Alex's) points are backed up by research and data that says - among other things - that YES, these are habitual traits of Gen Y-ers. All you have is anecdotes and theory.
Also, lose the attitude. Seriously.
All I have is experience, having been in charge of large groups of employees for most of my professional career. All you have are some subjective studies that you read, and a desire to be right. Or has writing about video games given you more experience at group management than I think it has?John Funk said:
And the moment you lose the snotty attitude, I'll do the same.
Do I have experience managing? I've never claimed that. And yet, these are things I hear over and over again from people who do manage - to say that it isn't a prevalent, if not 100% pervasive problem, feels silly.OANST said:
There's no attitude on my end except for anything that comes in response to your tone. You have a consistently unpleasant attitude when posting, and I strongly suggest you try to tone it down. It makes people not want to discuss things with you.
You hear over and over again from people in management that the younger generation doesn't have the same work ethic anymore? Really? Goodness, it's not like people haven't been saying that since the dawn of time or anything. Did they also shake their fists and exclaim "Kids today" when they said it?
Look, I understand that you don't like the way I'm saying this, but I'm also not fond of being preached at in a condescending manner about how to do my job by some guy who reviews video games.
Look, I understand that you don't like the way I'm saying this, but I'm also not fond of being preached at in a condescending manner about how to do my job by some guy who reviews video games.
Hey! That's me giving the speech. So you don't need to fight with Funk about it. I'm right here. Questions for you.OANST said:
First off, did you watch the video? I mean that as a genuine question. Because your comment "fire the lazy wastes of money" could be said whether you watched the video or not. So I'm curious if your comments are a reaction to the video or just in general. If you just expressing a general maxim that lazy wastes of money should be fired, I agree with you. There's no place in our organization or any right-thinking organization for lazy wastes of money.
If you watched the video, what did you disagree with? The point of my presentation was (1) That objectively business thinkers as a whole are currently expressing the attitude that Gen Y is a lazy waste of money; (2) That I believe the behavior by Gen Y that causes this attitude is partly due to unavoidable economic factors and partly due to their cultural upbringing; and (3) That I believe if you understand the cultural upbringing and address the economic factors, Gen Y can be as good as any other workforce. #1 is hard to argue with; I did a pretty wide survey of what's being said right now. #2 and #3 are my opinions based on 10 years of managing Gen Y. So where are we in disagreement?
As far as the comment that each older generation always says "the younger generation doesn't have any work ethic" and "kids these days", that's true; that charge has been levied for generations by the older and against the younger. But I think there are two important things are worth noting.
First, inter-generational studies done recently are showing that Gen Y youth are more narcissistic and unempathic *relative to other youth of the same age in past generations*. So "kids these days" are different than "kids those days".
Second, it has always been true that the way "kids these days" mature into adults is by having the generation of adults above them holding the next generation to adult standards. That's not been happening as much recently, as the age of adulthood has been pushed furhter and further back by cultural and economic factors. Thus, youth in their 20s today often behave in ways that would not have been acceptable to youth in their 20s of prior generations (not getting married, not having a steady job, living at home, etc). Just saying "kids will be kids" doesn't help create a mature generation of workers. One needs to asses what it takes for youth to accept adult responsibilities and get them there.
I'll be frank, I did not watch the video. I didn't watch it because I don't believe in the premise. I do not believe that people have changed in any fundamental way in the last twenty, thirty, or two hundred years. In my profession (marketing) I deal with employees of all ages, and I have had problems with employees from every age group.Archon said:
The problems that I typically have with younger employees is most certainly a lack of motivation. This is true. But the problems that I have with older employees are usually much more serious. Older employees are typically more set in their ways and unable to learn new techniques. More than that, though, is the social problem that is inherent in some older employees. They tend to be much more prone to racist and sexist comments and attitudes. When confronted with this they tend to become obstinate and refuse to accept that the problem is with them. This is typically when I fire them.
Now, I don't mean to give the wrong impression. A good manager always tries to steer their employee away from bad habits with a program of rewarding good behavior and penalizing (usually not too harshly) bad behavior. But if they are resistant, then you need to move on. It sends the message that this type of behavior is unacceptable, but it also lets your other employees know that their good work habits are appreciated. Their continued employment speaks volumes. Also, as I already stated, there is always someone better out there. Always. You just have to know how to look.
So, back to my point, It's not a generational issue. It's merely an age issue. Younger employees have less to lose and are not quite as mature as older employees, but this has always been true. It will always be true. No matter what the generation kids will always be little assholes.
Hmm. That's certainly true, but it's besides the point. The interesting question is 1) Is this generation systematically different in the expression of its bad behavior, and 2) Is the magnitude of the bad behavior varying from generation to generation. Based on my research - which was a survey that included some fairly comprehensive inter-generational studies - the answer to both questions is "yes". I think that's notable and interesting.OANST said:
I tend to agree with you that human nature is generally fairly resilient and hasn't changed in the past few hundred years. But the environment of how children are raised HAS changed.
If you took a medieval peasant's 1-year old kid and raised him in the 21st century century, with "everyone's a winner", smartphones, and videogames, he'd definitely be different in how he thinks and acts than a kid raised on the farm with a horse. I suspect a 12-year old in the 10th Century was considerably more mature and accustomed to the reality of life, death, and work than a modern 12-year old.
In any event, that reverts us to a nature v. nurture debate.
That absolutely is a nature vs. nurture discussion. I agree 100 percent. Also, I fall much more heavily on the nurture side of the argument. Being a father myself, it is quite apparent that the decisions I make have a profound effect on the way that my daughter sees the world and her attitude towards it.Archon said:
That being said, I'm of the opinion that people think that childhood has changed a lot more than it actually has. You still have kids being raised on farms with horses. That still happens. Also, the amount of children being coddled and given whatever they want vs. children being raised very strictly has not changed a great deal. As much as I hate to poke holes in any study that does it's best to provide empirical data and extrapolate an answer that way, I must say that the data collected for past generations would have to be skewed. The people that you are taking the data from are seeing their childhoods through rose tinted glasses, and since our memories are extremely subjective it can't be trusted.
That was one of the most fantastic discussions of the gen-Y mentality I've ever seen -- although I was a little alienated and annoyed to hear that the majority of us are interested in 'fashion' and our primary goal is 'becoming rich'. Not surprised, mind you. But annoyed.
It's also nice to hear us discussed from an inside angle (and in a positive light!) rather than the typical befuddled head-shaking and murmur of, "Damn kids..." Or its 'academic' equivalent...
"HEY YOU DAMN KIDS, GET OFF MY LAWN":
A DISSERTATIVE DISCUSSIONAL TREASTISE ON THE INFORMATION HUNTER-GATHERERS OF THE MILLENNIAL WEB 2.0 SEA OF THE DIGITAL INFORMATION AGE"
by Your Grandpa
I particularly liked hearing contrasted the world we've been engineered to expect, and the reality that's been set before us. The Baby Boomers have done more in the span of their lives to actively destroy the planet than any other generation in the history of the human species, saddling the next generations with pandemic global warming, trillions in debt, and a damaged global image of America as an Imperialist land of selfish, stupid, fast-food-sucking bastards. It irks me to no end when they look at these problems and scoff to themselves about how 'these damn kids and their Wikipedia' aren't equipped to deal with it. Well no shit!
And the talk about the Escapist's relationship with employees (that whole 'smartest kid in your class' bit) was great.
Now I just want to work at the Escapist even more <_<
It's also nice to hear us discussed from an inside angle (and in a positive light!) rather than the typical befuddled head-shaking and murmur of, "Damn kids..." Or its 'academic' equivalent...
"HEY YOU DAMN KIDS, GET OFF MY LAWN":
A DISSERTATIVE DISCUSSIONAL TREASTISE ON THE INFORMATION HUNTER-GATHERERS OF THE MILLENNIAL WEB 2.0 SEA OF THE DIGITAL INFORMATION AGE"
by Your Grandpa
I particularly liked hearing contrasted the world we've been engineered to expect, and the reality that's been set before us. The Baby Boomers have done more in the span of their lives to actively destroy the planet than any other generation in the history of the human species, saddling the next generations with pandemic global warming, trillions in debt, and a damaged global image of America as an Imperialist land of selfish, stupid, fast-food-sucking bastards. It irks me to no end when they look at these problems and scoff to themselves about how 'these damn kids and their Wikipedia' aren't equipped to deal with it. Well no shit!
And the talk about the Escapist's relationship with employees (that whole 'smartest kid in your class' bit) was great.
Now I just want to work at the Escapist even more <_<