How was Dragon Age a dark Fantasy?

[Vern5]

did you miss the fact that Grey Wardens never live more than 20 or 30 years after becoming a warden? or the fact that mages are highly susceptible to demon possession? or the exact nature of how Grey Wardens die when they get old enough? or the fact that almost everyone in the entire world is a total prick? it may not have been A Song of Ice and Fire dark, but it was still pretty dark.

Maybe I'm just completely desensitized, but living a slightly shorter life (especially 20 to 30 years, that's a long time) is not Dark, just unfortunate. If it was really Dark, the Grey Wardens would have to live with the violent schizophrenia brought on by having the Archdemon's voice in their head. Or suffer horrific mutations. If it was really Dark, Magic-users would be REQUIRED to host a demon within their bodies and make deals with it in order to utilize its magical abilities.

And frankly, everyone in the world is a total prick. Some of us make up for it and some of us embrace our prickishness but it is always there.

Dragon Age is more Mature Fantasy but I doubt it will ever be dark until Blood Magic starts becoming the norm.

It's funny, because that's exactly what happens. Not even joking.

But that takes time and you don't really see it in-game. It's not immediate or drastic enough to really make it dark. The first thing that should have happened after the Joining would be the hunting and ruthless execution of one of your fellow Wardens who didn't go crazy or die immediately after the ritual.

 

[TheDrunkNinja]

For the record? I cried at that point in the game.

Me too, man... Me too. T^T

 

[Ordinaryundone]

snip

You are most definitely on the right track. Even all of the party members have some pretty depressing or dark backstories.

Alistair: Abused and emotionally damaged orphan who has been shunted off from one life of violence to the next. Additionally, he's a Grey Warden, which condemns him to a brief, violent life regardless of what he does.

Morrigan: Apostate mages are some of the most dangerous people on the planet thanks to their powers and vulnerability to demons. Morrigan in particular is all of that in the body of a sociopath, who was raised by an even worse sociopath.

Leiliana: An expatriate who can never go home for fear of being killed by her friends, who delights in killing and may very well be crazy. She hears voices. Even in the DA world, thats not normal for a regular human.

Zevran: A slave and soldier since childhood, also unable to return home. He's also a complete emotional disaster who approaches murder and sex with the same nonchalant enthusiasm and is completely indifferent to nearly everything around him.

Sten: A man with no honor, who's life and culture are completely based and focused on it. Remember, when you found him he was completely content to sit down and die of starvation or Darkspawn, whichever came first. He's broken.

Ogrhen: Born into the terrible dwarven caste system, and had nearly everything he ever loved taken from him one at a time. Also, a raging alcoholic (but what dwarf isn't?). Ogrhen's, at least, is not always played for laughs.

Wynne: She's a demon zombie whose spent her entire life chained to a system that considers her a monster from birth. And the worst part is, she's really very nice.

Shale: A poor dwarf soul trapped in a stone body for god knows how long. Combined with the fact that a good chunk of the time, she was both completely immobile AND fully aware. Sitting in the Deep Roads, in the pitch dark, with only the sounds of hunting darkspawn...scary stuff. Also, all that time has quite literally driven her insane, if she wasn't that way before.

Dog: Um...he had a really bad stomachache before you helped him? Also, his stats suck so no one uses him >__>

 

[TheDrunkNinja]

But that takes time and you don't really see it in-game. It's not immediate or drastic enough to really make it dark. The first thing that should have happened after the Joining would be the hunting and ruthless execution of one of your fellow Wardens who didn't go crazy or die immediately after the ritual.

Dragon Age is a massive overarching story. The games only give it the setting. You want more? Extended universe, man.

I get the feeling with Dragon Age, Gaider had this huge concept in mind of a dark fantasy story. Spent all this time setting up the world, but it could never be fully realized in the games he created. The story of the first requires that Grey Wardens be limited in Fereldan, so you wouldn't be able to see the horrific effects of the taint. With each game, I always have that feeling that there should be even more here, but they just couldn't fit it in. And with a game that has 80 hours worth of well-crafted content and fantastic gameplay, wanting even more really says something.

 

[psivamp]

Honestly, I expected the Grey Wardens to all be suffering some hideous, progressive deformities as the Taint slowly overtook them. Or perhaps the the voice of the Archdemon or other voices within the Darkspawn Horde would cause dementia over time but Duncan seemed sane enough.

Read The Calling. You pretty much just summed up the plot. Seriously, word for word.

Also, I find it mildly darker than the usual fantasy-based games I come across. For example:

Spoiler

No, seriously. Spoilers. For Dragon Age 2.

Spoiler

For a third of the game, you're trying to catch a serial killer who takes women, and all that is usually found is a severed piece of them. Eventually, he takes your mom (who's been with you since the beginning), and when you finally find them, he's stitched together a mangled corpse from the different body parts of each woman, and he stitched your mother's ripped-off face onto the Frankensteinesqe monster. The killer did all this for the sake of recreating his wife that died, and when he would see a woman with his wife's eyes or hands, he would take them and cut off the appropriate body part.

It's not like something I wouldn't see in any DnD game I would play on a Friday night, but it is something I don't see from the standard RPG fair.

I'm apparently going to spoil something in Dragon Age 2 with a movie reference.

Spoiler

So, basically, there's a serial killer doing his rendition of the movie May, collecting pretty parts to make a friend.

 

[Netrigan]

How did DA become a dark fantasy?

The same way super-heroes did 30 years ago. More sex, more gore, and more adult subject matter. I enjoyed the story, but I found myself giggling when the Grey Wardens were all covered in blood shortly after a fight... ooooh, it's all dark now.

 

[Rayne870]

What about the Tranquil? the fact that it is essentially like cutting out a piece of their soul. Dragon Age is essentially a dark fantasy because there isn't a lot of happiness, it is a very gloomy existence even without the blight.

 

[Vern5]

By the way, are we talking about the universe of Dragon Age, or Dragon Age:Origins the game?

Dragon Age: Origins the game. Mostly because a game's overall tone should be set by the game itself and not extra filler the creators decided to throw in later.

 

[Vern5]

What about the Tranquil? the fact that it is essentially like cutting out a piece of their soul. Dragon Age is essentially a dark fantasy because there isn't a lot of happiness, it is a very gloomy existence even without the blight.

Except the tranquil that I talked to didn't seem to mind being Tranquil at all. Remember that one Tranquil who runs the stock room at the Mage's Tower? You can ask him what it's like and the way he describes it doesn't seem so horrible. Now, if he had replied that he hates being tranquil but is too Tranquil to really do anything about it(all in that robotic tone of voice) then I would feel bad.

 

[Sejs Cube]

Doesn't even really seem that complicated. Horror themes, adult themes. "Dark Fantasy" seems a lot easier to pitch than "High Fantasy with horror and adult themes".

 

[Rayne870]

What about the Tranquil? the fact that it is essentially like cutting out a piece of their soul. Dragon Age is essentially a dark fantasy because there isn't a lot of happiness, it is a very gloomy existence even without the blight.

Except the tranquil that I talked to didn't seem to mind being Tranquil at all. Remember that one Tranquil who runs the stock room at the Mage's Tower? You can ask him what it's like and the way he describes it doesn't seem so horrible. Now, if he had replied that he hates being tranquil but is too Tranquil to really do anything about it(all in that robotic tone of voice) then I would feel bad.

They are deprived of a lot of emotion, it's fairly close to having a lobotomy. There is a lot more insight into it in DA2 particularly revolving around Anders and his friend.

 

[Popido]

I would call it "Reality TV Fantasy".

 

[Anah'ya]

Not a thing of real light or beauty in the entire mythos, is there? Even the griffons are extinct.

*sniffs*

A beautiful summary.

 

[Ushiromiya Battler]

Well as he is a Tranquill,he can't really feel bad about it, you know, without emotions...
You get a good example in DA2 btw.

 

[Anah'ya]

Except the tranquil that I talked to didn't seem to mind being Tranquil at all. Remember that one Tranquil who runs the stock room at the Mage's Tower? You can ask him what it's like and the way he describes it doesn't seem so horrible. Now, if he had replied that he hates being tranquil but is too Tranquil to really do anything about it(all in that robotic tone of voice) then I would feel bad.

How can he hate? Hate is an emotion. The Tranquil are devoid of emotion. Love. Fear. Hate. Anger. Turning someone tranquil is, in my opinion, a horrible thought. You wrest all humanity from them, and leave nothing but a shell living day by day without knowing why.

Wonderful slaves though, I'd say. DA2 has one specific scene which outlines just how easily mages are exploited, and that includes the Tranquil. You know... They don't say no.

 

[Vern5]

What about the Tranquil? the fact that it is essentially like cutting out a piece of their soul. Dragon Age is essentially a dark fantasy because there isn't a lot of happiness, it is a very gloomy existence even without the blight.

Except the tranquil that I talked to didn't seem to mind being Tranquil at all. Remember that one Tranquil who runs the stock room at the Mage's Tower? You can ask him what it's like and the way he describes it doesn't seem so horrible. Now, if he had replied that he hates being tranquil but is too Tranquil to really do anything about it(all in that robotic tone of voice) then I would feel bad.

They are deprived of a lot of emotion, it's fairly close to having a lobotomy.

Maybe, but who is really suffering in the case of the Tranquil? The Tranquil don't feel anything. They can't feel sadness over their current state. They are truly at peace with themselves and the world, which almost sounds ideal in a philosophical way. Almost. Again, the Tranquil are less Dark and more tragic, which is still thoughtful.

 

[Ushiromiya Battler]

What about the Tranquil? the fact that it is essentially like cutting out a piece of their soul. Dragon Age is essentially a dark fantasy because there isn't a lot of happiness, it is a very gloomy existence even without the blight.

Except the tranquil that I talked to didn't seem to mind being Tranquil at all. Remember that one Tranquil who runs the stock room at the Mage's Tower? You can ask him what it's like and the way he describes it doesn't seem so horrible. Now, if he had replied that he hates being tranquil but is too Tranquil to really do anything about it(all in that robotic tone of voice) then I would feel bad.

They are deprived of a lot of emotion, it's fairly close to having a lobotomy.

Maybe, but who is really suffering in the case of the Tranquil? The Tranquil don't feel anything. They can't feel sadness over their current state. They are truly at peace with themselves and the world, which almost sounds ideal in a philosophical way. Almost. Again, the Tranquil are less Dark and more tragic, which is still thoughtful.

Isn't being tragic a part of dark settings?
or am I completely wrong here?

 

[Vern5]

Isn't being tragic a part of dark settings?
or am I completely wrong here?

No, you're completely correct. However, a part does not equal a whole. There are elements of Dark Fantasy that are missing in this context.

 

[Zom-B]

I define "Dark Fantasy" as something with more grit than shine. Lord of the Rings and their ilk repels me, while Dragon Age and Song of Ice and Fire is on the right track. Still not as much down the right road as the series written by Joe Abercrombie, but definitely packed with the right amount of grit.

What I'm thinking is that you are missing out on a-lot of the background noise that makes up the lore of the game (by not paying attention to the dialogue or not reading the codex entries). You failed to mentioned the whole deal with the Gray Wardens, or what happens to women who get captured by the Darkspawn. Both very obvious "dark" scenes.

You failed to mentioned the wars that ravaged the lands. You failed to mention how the dwarves live in constant battle with the Dark Spawn, or the existence of their "Legion of the Dead". You failed to mention the army built by the dwarves to battle the first Blight, of how all these golems were brought into existence.

You also didn't consider the elves; their plight as downtrodden race at the whim of the humans (play the city elf Origin). You failed to mention the slavers. And, what fascinates me most, the mages. Now it could be alot worse for them, though as it is being a mage is not a gift, but at the same time a curse. I imagine that the dealings within a Circle are alot less "rosy" than one might be led to believe when only looking upon the Fereldren circle. The Circle in Kirkwall, for example, is alot more in line with what I believe is going on behind closed doors.

.. anyway.

If one disregards the world, then yes. Dragon Age is anything but dark. But if you stop and think, and bother to pay attention, then it has alot more grit on it than what you brought up.

Regardless of how you define "Dark Fantasy", the Dragon Age games are not true Dark Fantasy. As many others have stated, Dark Fantasy is a combination of fantasy elements- sword and sorcery, fantastic creatures, etc.- and horror elements- hideous creatures, terror, psychological themes, madness etc.- of which, yes, Dragon Age does have some, but it's not presented or crafted in a way that puts it firmly in the Dark Fantasy, AKA Horror Fantasy or Gothic Fantasy category, of which the DA games are clearly neither. However, I will admit that the Dark Fantasy genre is nebulously defined at best, so I suppose if one wanted to, one could define it as Dark Fantasy, based on some very loose guidelines.

Regardless, I and many others would consider Dragon Age to be far more entrenched in the Low Fantasy end of the specturm, which is where you find your hack 'n slash, your goblins, your mages and wizards, your world saving storyline.

Most of the examples you cite, the elves, the slavery, the Gray Wardens, wars... all that stuff is standard Low Fantasy stuff. If DA had further explored or had been focussed on the relationship between the Gray Wardens and the Darkspawn, then it definitely could have been a Dark Fantasy. As it stands, the Gray Wardens and their affinity with the Darkspawn was merely used as an element to further the storyline of the battle against the Darkspawn, which was, at least in Origins, largely overshadowed by the political intrigues of Faerun and Teryn Loghain's betrayls.

There are definite "dark" elements in the DA games, and it has a definite "grit" to it, but they are far from your traditional or accepted definition Dark Fantasy stories or settings.

 

[Rayne870]

What about the Tranquil? the fact that it is essentially like cutting out a piece of their soul. Dragon Age is essentially a dark fantasy because there isn't a lot of happiness, it is a very gloomy existence even without the blight.

Except the tranquil that I talked to didn't seem to mind being Tranquil at all. Remember that one Tranquil who runs the stock room at the Mage's Tower? You can ask him what it's like and the way he describes it doesn't seem so horrible. Now, if he had replied that he hates being tranquil but is too Tranquil to really do anything about it(all in that robotic tone of voice) then I would feel bad.

They are deprived of a lot of emotion, it's fairly close to having a lobotomy.

Maybe, but who is really suffering in the case of the Tranquil? The Tranquil don't feel anything. They can't feel sadness over their current state. They are truly at peace with themselves and the world, which almost sounds ideal in a philosophical way. Almost. Again, the Tranquil are less Dark and more tragic, which is still thoughtful.

Isn't being tragic a part of dark settings?
or am I completely wrong here?

Seems right to me. I know I felt quite a bit of the weight of the DA world during both games.