hue

[cjspyres]

No, not at all. That would be along the same lines as going to a five star restaurant and ordering a chocolate souffle, and getting shit. You can bet your ass that you'd go straight to management and start complaining your ass for what they did. It is the job of the developers and producers to give us a game that is as good as they advertise and promise. So, again, using Mass Effect 3 as an example: When a series spanning three games is based on choices and their consequences, you don't go against everything the series has established up to that point, and then make it pointless. Actually, I'd go as far to say that gamers need to keep being this critical on games. We are consumers, and we are what decide whether or not they are successful. So yes, we do deserve the best. Because we pay for it.

 

[CobraX]

Well balls, I stupidly pressed "Yes", I wanted to vote "No".....

That's all I have to say on this matter, so off I go!

 

[Clive Howlitzer]

If anything, I'd say they aren't acting entitled enough. This is outside of just a few bad endings but seriously, you are allowed to demand a better product that you are paying full price for. Especially the ungodly high price of a video game. This is capitalism.

 

[Drummie666]

Regarding Mass Effect, I recall thinking (after playing ME2 [only part way through by the way, I didn't like it at all], the only game in the trilogy I've played) about the amount of control given to the player (Shepard's ability to stop time during conversations to allow him to think his next move through for example). I even recall thinking at one point that they would probably have to give it up in order to end the story properly (yes, I'm certain that there was some way to make the contain the player choice normally seen and still have it be satisfying, but that would have been a MASSIVE *****, so I figured they would probably take the easy way out).
Having seen the backlash to the endings, I thought back and I'm quite certain that the Mass Effect ending outrage is largely in part to the amount of control given to the player. They take that away and people are pissed because the creators took away the fan's control of the game.

People are acting entitled with ME3 because they were given entitlement previously and that was taken away. Just my hypothesis anyway, it's probably bullshit.
Oh, and after reading this: http://www.gamefront.com/mass-effect-3-ending-hatred-5-reasons-the-fans-are-right/ I have to say that yeah, the endings suck anyway and this isn't just about entitlement. The endings are terrible. Absolutely terrible.

Also, seeing as how I already didn't like BioWare, I've been enjoying this ever so much.

 

[Sonic Doctor]

Holy fuck yes. All these developers, and that means every single person on the team, the artists, writers, programmers, level designers, QA, all of them, put years of their life into one product to entertain us, and what do we say? "Fuck all of you, the last five minutes of your game were disappointing so I'm never buying from you again, you betrayed your entire fanbase", and then we accuse them of hating their customers and being corrupted by the "evil" publishers. For the love of god, every name you see in the credits of a game is a person just like you, be a little fucking grateful once in a while.

You took the words out of my mouth. I'm really getting tired of the bitching and moaning people are doing about trivial things and acting like it is the end of the world.

Yeah, I just came from a thread where people were complaining that the ME3 collector's edition was lame. What were they expecting to get for only 20 extra bucks, gold nuggets that cure cancer?

Gamers are expecting way too much these days, and it isn't proper expectation. I was face-palming way before the silly-ass charity petition to change the ending of ME3.

 

[FalloutJack]

Sorry, but narrow it down. Entitled to WHAT exactly? There are a number of cries and creeds and the word entitlement thrown at them at random whether in a meaningful way or not. Specifically, what is being or not being entitled, per se?

(And it's not to say that I haven't been reading. But I'm trying to determine if gamers know what they want and if it's even feasible.)

 

[Sotanaht]

I don't play games that I don't like or don't think are worth my money. It's worked great for years.

While great in theory, it becomes a problem in practice when there are no games (or not enough) that ARE worth the money. It is at this point that we must demand better games or cease playing them entirely, which to me is a wholly unacceptable option. It is not merely the consumers right, but their responsibility to demand the products that they wish to purchase.

 

[cjspyres]

I don't play games that I don't like or don't think are worth my money. It's worked great for years.

While great in theory, it becomes a problem in practice when there are no games (or not enough) that ARE worth the money. It is at this point that we must demand better games or cease playing them entirely, which to me is a wholly unacceptable option. It is not merely the consumers right, but their responsibility to demand the products that they wish to purchase.

Exactly. People have been saying things like "Get over it. It's Capitalism". Yes, that is true. And this being a Capitalist country, we have the responsibility as consumers to demand quality. Perfectly worded friend. Good to see that someone gets it.

 

[Keava]

There is good and bad entitlement really.

One hand You have people who demand quality for products with AAA price tags, transparency from the companies, fair provider-customer relations. It ranges from little things like adding those few more sliders in options when a studio ports a game to PC, to bigger things - like not selling unfinished/not complete games at full price or like providing proper support for multiplayer if it's the core part of game. That's the entitlement we have right to, because we pay and support the studios and in return expect the product to have certain degree of quality. Customers are the final QA, if the product is bad we have every right to be vocal about it.

On the other hand You have people whining about the most minor things. People who demand features/changes that never were part of design idea, or even worse people who will download pirated copies using excuse of "corporations being greedy". Those that feel entitled to everything just from the fact they were born on this planet and got access to internet.

So the final verdict is 50/50.

 

[Alexnader]

I once ordered a well done steak because I'm a buttface who doesn't enjoy eating stuff that's still breathing. The waiter, however, brought me a steak that in fact wasn't well done.
It was rare.
Politely, I pointed this out to him and asked him to return to the kitchen and get the chefs to work on it some more. The waiter did not respond.
Instead I realised, much to my surprise, that several of the customers who had ordered the same well done steak who were quite happy with their blood-stained plates had gathered by my table, and they were staring at me with anger and shock!

"How dare you?! The chef doesn't owe you a nice, well done steak! It's his steak!" they chanted.
My mouth was awfully dry, I was nervous, but nonetheless I tried to give them a piece of my mind.
"B-but p-p-p-please I-I... give steak p-p-please, I have money."
"Chefs are people too! Stop trolling!"
The spaghetti I had stored in my pockets in case of an emergency started oozing out of my pants and drop onto the floor of the restaurant as Gordon Ramsay picked me up and as he was guiding me towards the exit, a pair of cute girls laughed at me.
"Listen, you miserable git, you must understand that even five-star restaurants experience very stressful deadlines and they are forced to cut corners." he explained and gestured at the plastic cups and paper plates.

Then he threw me out on the street and I landed in a pool of my own sweat and spaghetti. I curled up in my miserable state and cried.
"No one cares about your opinion. Go troll somewhere else."
"Y-y-you too..."

I can still hear the laughter.

Less 4 Chan please, other than that thanks for the fairly relevant allegory.

While I agree with the "consumers are allowed to complain" sentiment I'd also caution that companies are just as entitled to ignore what a vocal minority are saying irrespective of how right that vocal minority is.

 

[scar_47]

Yeah a little, complaining about not enjoying a game for whatever reason is fine you bought a product and have every right to complain about it for whatever reason and good companies listen, now people bitching about not getting free dlc or compensation because they didn't enjoy everything in the game that I have a problem with. It seems to me gamers forgot they were consumer you vote with your wallet and when you buy something you need to understand especially with an entertainment product you may not be entirely pleased. You don't see people demanding refunds from movie companies because they didn't like the ending.

 

[theSteamSupported]

As someone who owns a minimal library of games, I rarely get angry over a game I've got, since I'm feeling luck to earn it in the first place.

I do however get sad, when I drop into said game's forum, where everyone are pissed over the developer doing this and not doing that. I panic and start to defend the game's flaws, since those mean, old baddies are devaluing my joy over acquiring a new game.

That's why I don't like gamer entitlement. Not everyone are lucky enough to become a game aficionado.

 

[WoW Killer]

Shame on anybody who complained about a product but still bought it.

Not that I agree with all of the hullabaloo about the ending and whatnot, but it's hard for a consumer to have made an informed purchasing decision about Mass Efffect 3 when the game all but for the ending was fantastic. I mean, the ending could have been completely REMOVED from the game, a black screen ala Sopranos and most people still would not have known about it in time for them to not purchase the game.

That's fair enough. It's like if you see a really shite film at the cinema then it's too late as you've already payed the money. But then I think the fuss about the ending has been blown out of proportion. I mean the ending really is as bad as people say, don't get me wrong, but what are you expecting in a game? Shoddy writing, clichés, plot holes and Deus Ex Machina are the norm in gaming. Sad but true.

I was more refering to the DLC issue. If you think the day one DLC qualifies as an unfinished product, then you need to judge for yourself whether you think the game is worth the cost of standard edition + DLC (in effect, is the game worth more than the standard cost of other games). If you think not, then the solution is to not buy it. There isn't actually any deception on Bioware/EAs part this time.

 

[Plinglebob]

There is good and bad entitlement really.

One hand You have people who demand quality for products with AAA price tags, transparency from the companies, fair provider-customer relations. It ranges from little things like adding those few more sliders in options when a studio ports a game to PC, to bigger things - like not selling unfinished/not complete games at full price or like providing proper support for multiplayer if it's the core part of game. That's the entitlement we have right to, because we pay and support the studios and in return expect the product to have certain degree of quality. Customers are the final QA, if the product is bad we have every right to be vocal about it.

On the other hand You have people whining about the most minor things. People who demand features/changes that never were part of design idea, or even worse people who will download pirated copies using excuse of "corporations being greedy". Those that feel entitled to everything just from the fact they were born on this planet and got access to internet.

So the final verdict is 50/50.

I think you have it spot on here, but there is still the problem of where the line between "Something is a problem and should be changed" and "I don't like it so must be changed" actually is. Personally, I think those that demand Day 1 DLC be free and that a games ending should be changed have crossed that line, but I know that others here would disagree.

 

[Rumpsteak]

Not really. Them again I don't like saying "gamers are__", people don't suddenly become assimilated into a hive mind when they take an interest in video games so It's not cool to say they are or are not something. Some are, Some are not, beyond that we are people.

 

[Elamdri]

Shame on anybody who complained about a product but still bought it.

Not that I agree with all of the hullabaloo about the ending and whatnot, but it's hard for a consumer to have made an informed purchasing decision about Mass Efffect 3 when the game all but for the ending was fantastic. I mean, the ending could have been completely REMOVED from the game, a black screen ala Sopranos and most people still would not have known about it in time for them to not purchase the game.

That's fair enough. It's like if you see a really shite film at the cinema then it's too late as you've already payed the money. But then I think the fuss about the ending has been blown out of proportion. I mean the ending really is as bad as people say, don't get me wrong, but what are you expecting in a game? Shoddy writing, clichés, plot holes and Deus Ex Machina are the norm in gaming. Sad but true.

I was more refering to the DLC issue. If you think the day one DLC qualifies as an unfinished product, then you need to judge for yourself whether you think the game is worth the cost of standard edition + DLC (in effect, is the game worth more than the standard cost of other games). If you think not, then the solution is to not buy it. There isn't actually any deception on Bioware/EAs part this time.

I don't think that the Mass Effect ending is quite as abysmal as the drama queens of the internet make it out to be. It wasn't what I was expecting and it could have been so much better, but it doesn't ruin the whole of the Mass Effect series like some people make it out to be.

As for the DLC thing, I couldn't care less about what gamers think about DLC. I think when it comes to DLC, gamers truly are suffering from a sense of entitlement. But gamers are a weird bunch. They'd rather pay money for something they perceive to be inadequate and then complain about it's inadequacies afterwards rather than avoid purchasing it in the first place.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Basically what we have here are refutations of the "entitlement" bullshit gaming media and devs/publishers are slinging around like howling monkeys.

What do you think?

You're mislabeling.

This isn't "Gamer-Entitlement", this is "Human Entitlement". Horizon last week had a whole thing on how the Human Brain ignores what it has to push what it wants.

On average, we're too stupid to realise we're not losing out unless we think on it.

Also, companies are muddying the waters by removing things that were included in the price and charging not only for them but more for the business model.

In the Mass Effect fiasco, Bioware trumpeted how brave they were, how successful they were and how open the game was - and then forgot the biggest reason people play the game (again), you build your own Shepard. When you go back on the one thing that made the series unique, you should expect tantrums of epic proportions.

 

[dontlooknow]

Of course we're entitled - we're entitled to a product that functions in the way we expect it to. It's just that the games industry seems to be generally more vocal, both from the customers and the producers - mainly because there's quite a big overlap between the circles of 'gamer' and 'vaguely computer-literate, forum junky.' I would put good money on guessing that there is just as many people who go home an ***** about the problems with Tesco (or Walmart, for that matter), only to go back the next week to repeat their buying habits. It's just that nobody, in the history of life, the universe and everything, has taken to the forums to complain about, say an oddly shaped Tesco Value muffin, with the same crusader-like vehemence of an irate gamer.

 

[Michael Hirst]

I hate people throwing around this word entitlement like it's an actual defence for poor writing. Without giving throwing spoilers everywhere I'll just say the endings to ME3 (that's where the buzzword has come from recently) had little variation and closure, we didn't get to learn much about those characters we have come to love through a trilogy of games instead the focus resting on Joker and EDI, the former being only a minor character for the first 2 games and the latter only having a semi-important role in the second game. No Liara, No Garrus, not a peep from those guys.

I'm not being entitled about the ending I'm just saying they did a crap job on the ending and didn't fully consider the established characters and the fans love of said characters.

Now onto another thing, if demanding high quality is being entitled and that's wrong, what you're essentially saying is as gamers spending $60/£40 on release day (lets not talk about DLC completely different topic) in good faith of a product does not permit you to have a good experience. THIS IS BULL!

Look at any entertainment media, when a creator/artist of any kind makes good works then screws up, doesn't matter if it's film or videogame or music the people who bought it will react, some more polite than others, when we're given a product that isn't to standard we have to be vocal about it after all we are the only reason they can afford to make their entertainment/art in the first place. If we complain and then we're completely ignored and banned from their forums for speaking such words it's less likely we'll ever put our faith (or money) into that company again.

 

[Keava]

I think you have it spot on here, but there is still the problem of where the line between "Something is a problem and should be changed" and "I don't like it so must be changed" actually is. Personally, I think those that demand Day 1 DLC be free and that a games ending should be changed have crossed that line, but I know that others here would disagree.

When it comes to day-1 DLC that isn't cosmetic it's pretty much question of how much, You, individually, as customer, can accept from company. There is a whole grey area there, and for eg. I don't mind day1 DLC that is added to every new copy of game as so called "project 10$". It's fair play that doesn't really affect me as PC gamer, and on consoles only affects used copies (again, depends on how much of a problem You consider it to be).
Same time I don't like "exclusive" retailer DLCs, Day-1 DLCs that are sold for additional fee or DLC containing items that invalidate in-game progression (often DLC armors are so good that it's hard to replace them till very late into game).

When it comes to game endings however I feel everyone who can give valid/logical arguments as to why They do not like given ending or any other pat of the game has right to complain about it. Especially in case of game that so heavily relies on story telling. The whole situation with ME3 is even made worse by the recent rumors that "proper" ending will be coming as an update in few months (end of april/may).
That creates entirely new issue of selling game at full price without including all the core content (I do not believe they just make new ending now, getting voice actors alone would take more time than 2-3 months considering they are mostly big names in industry and have other gigs than just BioWare games). It's hard to not ask Yourself a question "Did I just paid for unfinished game?" , and if so, there is certainly reason to complain.
If BW said prior to release that the ending will come at later date it would be fine, as customer You would have knowledge of that fact and could make informed decision whenever it's worth it to buy it now or better to wait for "full" version.