hue

[New Troll]

I sell games and personally have a big issue with the ESRB rating of M. It's way too broad! When a guardian goes to buy a game for an underage customer, I always inform them of the M rating and then will usually try to read off the reasons for the rating on the back. But if it's a game like Grand Theft Auto or FallOut, I will stress the point of the rating. There is no reason for games like those to be in the same rating as games like Halo.

Violence (especially Animated), Mild Language, Brief Nudity, those are things that any child can find on basic TV. And a ton of M rated games will only have one of those giving it the rating.

Sexual Content, Drug Reference or Use, Alcohol, Strong Language, Nudity, Extreme Violence and Gore are a different story though. And there are a couple of games that list them all.

In my opinion, M should be 16+ and another rating should be added for the more extreme M games with an 18+ age restriction. Maybe just M+. And of course guardians can still purchase these games, but it will help them more easily identify which games might be a little too much. Would also help retail to more easily recommend titles to guardians.

"Well I haven't tried Druggy Stripping Baby Killers yet, but with that M+ rating I would probably not recommend it for your 13 year old. Perhaps check out KillZone 7 instead?"

 

[CrustyOatmeal]

i dont think there should be a law forbidding retailers from selling to parents but i do believe there should be a law preventing them from selling directly to kids without a parent. it should come down to the parents decision as to what games are and are not appropriate for their children; the government has no place in telling parents how they can raise their children and even less domain in the distribution of a form of art (although i still hold the beliefe that, much like paintings and film, not all video games are art). as long as the person selling the game to a parent they should be required (or strongly suggested) to inform the parent about their purchase and offer a quick tutorial about the ESRB rating system. as long as you offer to inform the parent about their decision the duty falls to the parent and the parent alone

 

[theSHAH]

I'm 18 now, but even as a kid I always bought whatever game I wanted whenever I wanted. My parents never questioned it. I have one fond memory when I was 16 please Gears of War 2 and my dad walked to to watch what I just got as the camera zoomed in on my driving my chainsaw through a locust. It was pretty awesome timing to say the least.

 

[frehls]

hue

 

[Lucane]

The way the poll is I can't vote,(see below)but there shouldn't be a law(s) and/or rule(s) saying parents and/or guardians can't make a personal judgement call to allow their kids access to certain material that isn't restricted to age of 18 already as being for adult entertainment only since saying the F*@# more than once practically makes a movie R-rated on it's own the overall content isn't considered spicy enough to be a clear cut only adults should be permitted to view it.

Are parents legally allowed to buy R-18/M rated films (or whatever the equivalent would be) for their children at the moment?

Whatever the answer is to that, it should be consistent with the same age ratings for videogames.

The poll doesn't seem to consider AO: Adults Only as a part of the available games a parent would/could buy for their kids since they already have rules/laws restricting their sells similar to NC-17 for movies which you mention.

42's trying to talk about Rated R/Rated M for Mature which both require being at least being 17 or older to purchase/rent on your own but don't have any rules/laws that say you can't permit anyone younger than 17 to view/interact with it after access to it (except for movies theatres needing a parent or guardian over 21 viewing it with them.) Which is backed by the idea that the parents and or guardians know the child(ren) are capable of viewing the material without negative effects on the them or at the very least understanding what material they are personally permitting to be shown to their children.

I.E. sexual content,graphic violence,nudity, blood and gore or other things society typically considers inappropriate for children.

 

[TonyVonTonyus]

ESRB seems like information enough for a parent to buy a game.

Yeah I've seen this happen quite a bit. As long as the parent is properly informed about what the game contains then I see no problem. I was playing mature games at 12 or so (granted my parents didn't know) and I've grown into a responsible if slightly lazy adult. Keep in mind I do think the mature games I grew up with are nowhere near as brutal as some of the mature games out now. Compare say Diablo with God of War. Yes there was blood and relatively graphic death but I wasn't tearing the heads of medusas either, Meh, I say it depends on the case and as long as the parents know what they're getting into then everythings cool.

This is especially true in Quebec where retailers actually don't accept returns for opened software. So if you bought a game your kid can't deal with too bad for you, should have informed yourself before buying.

Yeah but here in Quebec they have all those damned video game laws. I can hardly buy games anymore..thank god for me having a beard.

 

[Jedoro]

Let parents buy what they want for their kids, and have retailers actually stick to their rules. If people can't return opened games that were for their kids, then they'll learn to do some damn research before buying the game next time. They can still sell the used copy back to Gamestop or something and take a loss, which'll still be encouragement to know what the hell they're buying. It really isn't the retailer's job to make sure a customer knows everything about a game before they buy it; all they need to know is on the fucking box.

 

[frehls]

hue

 

[Nigh Invulnerable]

The problem with "Mature" video games is that 99% of the stuff that gets them that rating appeals to people younger than 17. Sex and violence do appeal to people older too, but almost all of both in video games are presented to shock and titillate, not to further the atmosphere or plot of the game. Silent Hill 2 is my ideal example of how Mature rated elements actually add to the atmosphere and further the storyline. Too often it's just gratuitous boobs and blood.

 

[Lucane]

Are parents legally allowed to buy R-18 rated films (or whatever the equivalent would be) for their children at the moment?

Whatever the answer is to that, it should be consistent with the same age ratings for videogames.

Yes. All media in the US is self-regulated, save for straight up porn.
They can even buy a ticket for their kid and let them go in by themselves.

Wait wha? Where do you live? It's a fairly standard policy that movie theatres require adults 21 or older view R-rated movies with people under the age of 17.Any place that doesn't seem to do this either has parents actively ignoring it and just letting their kids view those movies on their own or the kids are in one way or another sneaking into said films(buying tickets for a different film,sneaking in,lying about a parent being with them or lying about their age)

I'd assume if you ask an employee at one of those theatres they do have a policy saying R-rated films have age restrictions

 

[frehls]

hue

 

[Kakashi on crack]

Its been shown that the audience a game is trying to protect is usually the one the game appeals to the most/is designed for. EX: Dead Space 2


I would have agreed to the last one except you left out the "no law" part. It shouldn't be law, it should be common sense for a retailer to just mention that parents should check the rating.

Now, that being said, the ESRB sucks and rating games. If you look at their rating systems, they get teachers (usually middle school or elementry school teachers) and married couples to rate the games. They frown upon letting anyone who is single or who has previously played games to be rating them, and they REFUSE to allow anyone under the age of 21 to rate games for them.

Now tell me... What does this tell you about the ESRB's extreme bias -against- games...?

 

[Lucane]

snip

I honestly could barely comprehend what you said, but I'll try to respond.
There are no federal, or state (as far as I know) laws that restrict any media in any way, except for pornography. All media in the US is self-regulated. Movie theaters and retailers won't sell tickets/games of an R/M rating to minors due to their own policies. No major retailer, or even many small ones, would stock an AO rated game. NC-17 movies also have limited screenings, but there isn't a law for that. There doesn't need to be.

I agree there doesn't need to be a law(Edit:Sorry if it sounded like I wanted one before.) but M and AO are two different things and the way the poll is it doesn't seem to consider Adults Only at all or any different from Mature.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AO-rated_products


NC-17(If it's gonna appear in "normal" theatres) has the same rating restrictions as Porn but is usually used for films not mainstreaming in high sexual content and excessive nudity it's against the law to sell anything of that rating to minors(or at least heavily fined/sued)as with Ao ratings for Games(Console makers don't support sells of games which warrant an AO rating from the ESRB) but games that if would have gone through the rating system are still sold usually either in "adult novelty"shops or straight from the makers from their websites.Like you said General public Retail stores would never sell AO games the same could be said of Best Buy and Wal-Mart not selling NC-17 films they don't want to be liable for having restricted content on sell in public view of children but the material is still avialable for purchase in certain circles.

 

[Kakashi on crack]

Violence (especially Animated), Mild Language, Brief Nudity, those are things that any child can find on basic TV. And a ton of M rated games will only have one of those giving it the rating.

Sexual Content, Drug Reference or Use, Alcohol, Strong Language, Nudity, Extreme Violence and Gore are a different story though. And there are a couple of games that list them all.

Your first list, aside from nudity, can be found in your average cartoon that children watch today. I've personally watched some of the hsows my little siblings watch todaqy and then say "if that was in a videogame it would be an M rating"

Most of your second list is things that fall under the TV-14 rating (aside from Nudity)


We have serious inconsistencies among the way ratings work. What is considered TV-14 is considered PG-13/R depending on the material to a movie, and is considered M automatically to a game.

Does that mean that we should sell M games to a 14 y/o? no. But it does mean a younger age rating.

I guess what I'm saying is I like your M idea, but instead of M and M+ they should just fix the T rating to reflect certain aspects. (course I guess that would eliminate the 16+ thing...)

 

[feeback06]

I agree with a lot of the points then many others have made. Mainly:

1. It is the parents responsibility to raise a child, not the government's.
&
2. A Cashier's/Clerk's responsibility is to warn parent's about M rated games, however if the parent agrees then that's the end of it.

 

[GrizzlerBorno]

Kids should be allowed to play M-rated games, sure. Here's why: The whole "kids become annoying, violent little dipshits on Halo/CoD" argument? True, but what people tend to forget is that Kids grow out of it. They don't stay kids who can't distinguish between reality and virtual worlds forever. In the very rare cases that does happen (Gamers becoming obsessed with, like WoW and shit well into their teen lives, to the detriment of their real life)....well that's when the parents should step in and say enough is enough.

Parents should still have the ultimate say-so as to what their kids play.....but I just.....don't think it's a big deal to let kids play violent games.

 

[Lucane]

Its been shown that the audience a game is trying to protect is usually the one the game appeals to the most/is designed for. EX: Dead Space 2


I would have agreed to the last one except you left out the "no law" part. It shouldn't be law, it should be common sense for a retailer to just mention that parents should check the rating.

Now, that being said, the ESRB sucks and rating games. If you look at their rating systems, they get teachers (usually middle school or elementry school teachers) and married couples to rate the games. They frown upon letting anyone who is single or who has previously played games to be rating them, and they REFUSE to allow anyone under the age of 21 to rate games for them.

Now tell me... What does this tell you about the ESRB's extreme bias -against- games...?

Aside from the "previously played games" part.

I'd say their logic is That the main reason for the rating system is for concerned parents who want to know what's in a game they might want to get for their kids if your 18 or older congratulations ratings don't bar you from anything. They don't rate the games on how well they work or play just the content's socially acceptable age limits everything below M can be bought by anyone but it has recommended age groups for easy use for lesser informed buyers who might not want to buy certain material for their children.

 

[Void Droid]

I think they should be properly informed AND made to sign a copy of the receipt (I know this happens normally when paying by card but not everyone uses a card) as proof that they were informed, therefore if their kid does something "because of a game" then they are the ones responsible.

 

[Drizzitdude]

I have been playing violent games all my life. I recently turned 18 and almost my entire game collection is M rated with some T's here and there. I have been playing gmes such as mortal kombat as a kid and I can assure you I never attempted to rip out my friends spine.