Huge Closures for GAME

Treblaine

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Jul 25, 2008
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Batsamaritan said:
All fair comments, supermarkets are indeed cheaper and I too have had some AWFUL advice from 'specialist' retailers.....

so what are you getting from places like game... well I recently bought a 505 gamestreet fighter on ps3 called battle fantasia, cheap and fun its a game no supermarket near me has ever stocked, the issue is they will only bulk buy to make games as cheap as possible and avoid smaller more esoteric titles. While I personally dislike JRPGs a lot of the smaller releases are almost never stocked in my local tesco and asda and as a minority title why should they? Perhaps then online purchases from amazon or play are the way forward but like the supermarkets another concern I have is jobs, with less and less people employed who's going to buy these games?!

Also when all the game/gamestation/HMV?blockbusters are gone, will we still get the same low prices in tesco and asda? I somehow doubt it.
I don't think HMV is going to go under along with GAME because they focus on just the price and diversify with not just game but music and film. There are three main places you can buy games at retail:

-Specialised stores like GAME
-more General Electronic Entertainment (music, movies, TV, games) like HMV, Virgin, usually very big stores
-and big supermarkets usually out of town

The thing is even HMV has competition from other big Entertainment retailers, and there is HUGE competition between the big Supermarkets like Tescos and Asda due to the unique properties of how 90% of customers get there by car. Therefore if you can drive to ASDA could just as easily drive to Tescos or Sainsbury's, unlike the high street the competition is not just what is all within walking distance of each other.

I got Bayonetta for only £29.99, NEW on the week it came out in HMV, just a simple price of thirty quid. I have never seen value like that for a new title and it was going for over £40 in GAME. HMV seem to be the first to drop prices, like Darksiders, £20. When Killzone 2 went platinum ALL the copies of KZ2 got cut to £10 before the same tricked down to GAME.

And the thing is when I go into HMV or Virgin I often buy a DVD as well as a game. It's also much easier to go into the store with my non-gaming friends and relatives as there is at least SOMETHING they find of interest in there.

The thing is minority interest you are best finding the games you want on the internet and if you are a person with minority interests then you really cannot be shy about using it. The mainstream might have an excuse to be skittish about online purchases but not the fans of obscure Japanese-fighters, and I gather you found out about this game from the internet rather than some TV spot or advertising?

On the jobs issue, it's a tough one but there is no point in employing people in a job that can't generate any profit. And clerks at retail are just a small part of the much larger jobs market, i really don't think this has to turn into a discussion on the wider employment cycle.
 

Dexiro

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It seems like they always have more than 1 store in a small area anyway :p

My town has 2 just across the road from each other, both sell the exact same stuff. It's not as though they're tight for space either.
 

Treblaine

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Erja_Perttu said:
Yes, this is true. If Nintendo/Microsoft/Sony pays for the space, you've got to advertise them, which means giving them the majority of the room. It's a big yay for fairness.


Treblaine said:
Summary
Games retail needs:
-economy of scale (cut out middle men, distribution costs, get special deals)
-higher sales:personnel ratio

Internet shopping FTW!

Also fanciful idea of 2nd hand games stores.

Yay! We're debating lol :D
Some good points there. To the counter argument!

You're quite right, a lot of the reason why games are so expensive is to do with the way they're distributed, especially when you're dealing with a chain that has a lot of smaller stores. However, sometimes there isn't a way around that. Whilst places like HMV can offer games at lower prices, that comes with the downside that a lot of places don't have a HMV.

My example of this is my hometown, a small seaside resort. Over the years they've tried putting Tower records here, Virgin, HMV, all sorts of larger media stores, but they never stick, leaving our town without any larger shops stocking purely DVDs and music. Instead, all we have are two independents, four supermarkets and a stupidly overpriced WH Smiths. Some people do like to shop in a physical store, and without a Game around they wouldn't be able to do that, and most likely the revenue from those sales would be lost, due to their reluctance to, for various reasons, use the internet. To summarise, yes HMV might get it cheaper due to their buying power, but smaller towns and villages can't always rely on shops they don't have.

As for your point about personnel being the greatest drain on company resources, you do again have a point. However where this falls flat is that most Game stores, certainly in my region, are already being run on skeleton crews. Seriously, there is literally no way that my shop could function with less staff then we've got.

The reason we bug customers when we're perilously close to not being able to function as a shop is because we're told to. If you don't hit a certain customer conversion rate, there consequences. If you don't hit all your targets, there's consequences, if you don't sell enough warranties, there's serious consequences. None of the aforementioned consequences are good. Also, we're a business. We need to make money. The reason we want that mother to buy a Wii for her kids is that 1) they might actually enjoy it, because Wii's are kinda fun, but more importantly 2) we need the money. The thread is called 'Huge Closures for GAME'. It's not like we're not sweating the sales here.

You say 'good riddance to the high street game store', mentioning that prices will get better for customers when they go. I think this is an immensely flawed thought. High Street retails may not be the cheapest, but without a high street chain of 'specialist game stores' (or not so specialist if you've had a bad experience) there would be a lack of competition for supermarkets, aka a physical monopoly, which you've said you're against. I said in my first point that many people in my hometown don't like to buy off the internet, seeing it as untrustworthy or having had a bad experience, or even just because they like having someone to talk to when they come in to shop. For people like them, it would be a disastrous move, as
without any reason to price games cheaper than a specialist, the supermarkets would increase the prices, having no need to stay competitive.

Also, with supermarkets being the only option for people buying games, most of the choice would be gone, as they don't stock preowned and only really push the latest titles. There would be a lot of disgruntled former gamers wandering around.

Now, interestingly enough, your idea for fully pre-owned stocked shops has already been trialed by GAME in several locations, and over those trials has been found not to be a viable business model. Those shops simply couldn't draw in customers without having the big new titles to push. You say they don't go well together, the sale of new and pre-owned, but that's the only way they can go together. Either of them on their own simply doesn't cut it. New doesn't offer enough profit and pre-owned can't get in the people.

As someone who's worked in a game shop for a number of years now, and become sufficiently jaded, your idea of the perfect game shop is incredibly idealistic, and completely inviable. You don't seem to recognize that the some people working in GAME stores, such as myself, do so because they love games, however the environment of work is not the place to amass gaming experience, funnily enough. We're not paid to play games, we're paid to process them, price them and sell them.

To get the amount of gaming knowledge you suggest would be appreciated by a customer, the clerk would have to spend every hour not working playing games, because there are so many games out there that to have knowledge of even a tiny proportion of them would require a serious lack of social life. Also, you'd be appealing to a very select cliental, who are in my personal experience, broke most of the time, making profits a distant dream.

The difference between a game sales assistant and Quentin Tarantino is that games are interactive and so require more attention (meaning playing on the job is out of the question), and take many hours to complete. Even a short game at 6 hours is three times longer than most movies, let alone say the 50 hour latest Final Fantasy.

I think Ebay is probably the closest you're going to get to your bargain bins of wonderment, because in a physical shop as you suggest, it wouldn't work without other things to draw the customer in. My local independent game store sells new games to bolster sales, as well as airsofting equipment on the side, swords, knives and various deadly weaponry. As funky as the shop is, they don't know much actually about games themselves though.
You say HMV came to your town but left because they couldn't make a profit? But aren't GAME also struggling or failing to make a profit? Is it that HMV left these towns merely because they could? My hometown doesn't have anything but supermarkets, I think I am like a lot of people in that I have to take a 20 minute train/car ride to the nearest big town to do any serious shopping... or just go on the internet.

One thing I tried and failed to say about personnel is it's not just the number of staff but the ratio of staff to sales. Take a look in HMV, they don't have that many staff but the place is always heaving with customers, the few staff that are around are jsut constantly updating inventory and their help is usually quick and efficient like "I'm looking for this movie?" "Ah, that is in X section, there it is".

HMV and Supermarket staff don't ever try the hard sale (as far as I know) and you mention GAME have to make a certain number of "customer conversions", sell warranties, make targets with "severe consequences". This is worse than pay by commission, this is all stick, no carrot.

And customers don't like to be pushed to the point of saying "leave me alone", most people, including me would much rather just leave the store than actually resort to - even in the politest possible way - to state your discomfort with situation and ask to be left alone.

I hate hard-sales, I don't know anybody who likes them. People may like chatting with GAME staff but they won't and I didn't when it becomes apparent the conversation is not frank but merely - I hate to say this - manipulating them towards a sale. And that's to be expected, no job is going to pay you to stand around chatting. Conflict of interest, you can't ask a barber if you need a hair-cut.

I don't think the danger is a monopoly as the Supermarkets almost aren't even competing with GAME, they are competing with each other. There is huge competition between the supermarkets and I think that will keep prices down and they will continue to resort to selling some games at a loss, just to get the punters in the door and to do their food shopping there.

However, if GAME goes away as well as GameStation, HMV would be pretty much the only high street destination for video games... clearly Virgin would have to introduce far more stores. But at the moment there isn't even good competition, GAME are struggling to compete with HMV at all, I think it's terrible that GAME forces it's employees into the situation of having to make hard-sales to customers, it is a terrible situation for both employees and customers.

Though I can accept my Ideal games store is a bit too idealistic.

Maybe the best approach for resale of used/retro games is online, ebay, Amazon Marketplace, Playtrade, cut out as many middle men as possible. Maybe the high street is just a bad place to try to sell pre-owned games, it isn't a mainstream interest and the breadth of games is so wide only the mass internet market could possibly cater for it. It's just a damn shame that neither pre-owned nor new-sales alone are enough to be a profitable enterprise.
 

Erja_Perttu

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May 6, 2009
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Treblaine said:
Erja_Perttu said:
Treblaine said:
Summary
Games retail needs:
-economy of scale (cut out middle men, distribution costs, get special deals)
-higher sales:personnel ratio

Internet shopping FTW!

Also fanciful idea of 2nd hand games stores.

Yay! We're debating lol :D
Some good points there. To the counter argument!

- I agree there need to be economies of scale, however cutting out the middle man could leave people in some smaller area in the lurch
- Game tries to get a better ratio of sales to staff by ?hard selling? which causes consumer rage quitting, but staff get kicked up the butt if they don?t do it.
- Ebay is the best place for retro stuff imho
You say HMV came to your town but left because they couldn't make a profit? But aren't GAME also struggling or failing to make a profit? Is it that HMV left these towns merely because they could? My hometown doesn't have anything but supermarkets, I think I am like a lot of people in that I have to take a 20 minute train/car ride to the nearest big town to do any serious shopping... or just go on the internet.

One thing I tried and failed to say about personnel is it's not just the number of staff but the ratio of staff to sales. Take a look in HMV, they don't have that many staff but the place is always heaving with customers, the few staff that are around are jsut constantly updating inventory and their help is usually quick and efficient like "I'm looking for this movie?" "Ah, that is in X section, there it is".

HMV and Supermarket staff don't ever try the hard sale (as far as I know) and you mention GAME have to make a certain number of "customer conversions", sell warranties, make targets with "severe consequences". This is worse than pay by commission, this is all stick, no carrot.

And customers don't like to be pushed to the point of saying "leave me alone", most people, including me would much rather just leave the store than actually resort to - even in the politest possible way - to state your discomfort with situation and ask to be left alone.

I hate hard-sales, I don't know anybody who likes them. People may like chatting with GAME staff but they won't and I didn't when it becomes apparent the conversation is not frank but merely - I hate to say this - manipulating them towards a sale. And that's to be expected, no job is going to pay you to stand around chatting. Conflict of interest, you can't ask a barber if you need a hair-cut.

I don't think the danger is a monopoly as the Supermarkets almost aren't even competing with GAME, they are competing with each other. There is huge competition between the supermarkets and I think that will keep prices down and they will continue to resort to selling some games at a loss, just to get the punters in the door and to do their food shopping there.

However, if GAME goes away as well as GameStation, HMV would be pretty much the only high street destination for video games... clearly Virgin would have to introduce far more stores. But at the moment there isn't even good competition, GAME are struggling to compete with HMV at all, I think it's terrible that GAME forces it's employees into the situation of having to make hard-sales to customers, it is a terrible situation for both employees and customers.

Though I can accept my Ideal games store is a bit too idealistic.

Maybe the best approach for resale of used/retro games is online, ebay, Amazon Marketplace, Playtrade, cut out as many middle men as possible. Maybe the high street is just a bad place to try to sell pre-owned games, it isn't a mainstream interest and the breadth of games is so wide only the mass internet market could possibly cater for it. It's just a damn shame that neither pre-owned nor new-sales alone are enough to be a profitable enterprise.
The point I wanted to make about HMV is that they left and they left a long time ago, even before the recession hit. If GAME went under, there would be only one independent shop in the whole town to buy games from, which no one seems to know the location of. This is the aforementioned knife and gun shop, which has also quite sadly FUBAR'd its prices. My town has a big problem with an aging population, a lot of whom wouldn't travel elsewhere to buy games, nor would they use the internet. It's the reason I think GAME is a good thing, hard selling and pinch-of-salt worthy advice aside.

About 5 years ago, I was a customer in GAME. I went in there every day for two weeks to play their Guitar Hero demo, the original one for the PS2. At the end of two weeks, I bought it, and not once in those two weeks did any of the three guys I made friends with try and sell it to me. On my loyalty card, my last name was Guitar-Star. That's the GAME I loved shopping in. I told this story to a manager once. You know what he said to me?

"We're not that company anymore." and we never will be. Alas, as but a poor till monkey, I can't make a difference, and even if I got to regional manager, or director of an area I wouldn't get a say on how the company is run (and getting to a position like that would take years). But if I could could get back those days when GAME was a fun shop, I would.

I do however take great issue with the accusation that we manipulate people. I'll be fair about this, it is our job to sell you stuff. To the best of our ability, we shall try and sell you stuff, but there is a big difference between manipulation and suggestion/persuasion. You make it sound like we're Jedis, waving our hands about and saying 'This is the console you are looking for.'

I also think it's a bit broad to say that every time we try and strike up conversations we're trying to make people buy stuff. I did once have a 45 minute chat with a lovely old lady about a computer class she was taking, and she didn't buy a thing. Take that sweeping generalisation! (Note: this may be an exception to the rule)

As for pre-owned, I don't see a problem with the way things are sold now. As long as a game is in the current generation, if it gets traded in or the high street it gets sold on the high street, and the reason people go to the shop in the first place isn't because they get the best deal, but because it cuts out the hassle. Some people either don't realise they can sell games themselves, don't trust themselves to sell their games for the high price or they just can't be bothered to sell their stuff privately. Either way, pre-owned is a good seller, and comes in regularly. I don't think the high street is a bad place to sell pre-owned games at all.
 

Insanum

The Basement Caretaker.
May 26, 2009
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I use game a LOT, i know of at least 4, and they're all good too use. I dont go online anymore, I go to game (i dont go to gamestation after they annoyed me).

Shame.
 

PurpleLeafRave

Hyaaaa!
Feb 22, 2009
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ultimateownage said:
Well, I have 2 GAME stores here so I should be fine, I hope they shut down the crappy small one, not the nice one in the oracle though.
Yeah same, I always use the one in the oracle. I actually know the staff there, and they gave me a free signed MW2 poster just for being friendly to them. Reading ftw!