Humanity lost in a cloud of hate and anger?

[Evill_Bob]

Two thousand years ago a guy got nailed to a cross for saying how great it would be if we'd all be nice to each other for a change. There was just an unusual ammount of people not trying to be a greedy dick to each other for a bit. There was an attempt at the betterment of humanity with space exploration, medical breakthroughs, and general awesomeness around the board. Apparently people act nice when they know any moment the entire world could be vaporized in a moment by thermonuclear warfare.

 

[Indeterminacy]

And I was thinking, what happened to that sort of thinking?

I have by and large ignored the values part of your post. I don't know whether human kindness as an idea in and of itself is somehow absent in the world today, and I suspect that it lies only in the hearts of those who are prepared to be outcasts of society for the sake of others even less fortunate than themselves.

But what I can address is what happened to "this sort" of thinking. Allow me to place the Chaplin quote in some context. This speech was given in 1940, when war was perceived as a thing borne of those with a thirst for power, where the death of soldiers was understood as a result of stupidity on the part of generals, where conflict was perceived in the terms it always had been at that point. Germany's persecution of the Jews was understood by the west as an abhorrent economic strategy that Nazism adopted only because they needed to steal their wealth. National Socialism was a kind of Socialism to the West.

They didn't yet realise that the Nazi goal was ethnic cleansing. They didn't realise the power that lay behind a group of people, brought together by notions of unity and social values - the power to slaughter at least six million people for the sake of a collective ideology. Resisting dictatorship by appeal to peoples' better sense of humanity? The sense of a better, developed and brighter future for humanity that was inherent in the Nazi ideal was one with the master race at the top of it.

This is the lesson we learned from World War 2, plus to a very real extent nuclear weaponry as well, and that had not yet been learned as of Chaplin's speech above. You do not fix the world by claiming that the best in human nature will result in a better future and striving to create that future. Looking to emphasise the "Best" in human nature will bring out the worst of it. And that hypothesis has been experimentally verified at a disastrous cost.

It is not surprising that the cold war happened after that shocking realisation. It's not surprising that nihilism seems to thrive, and that our individualist political and economic theories and existentialist personal philosophies have become dogma. We have seen the extent of our power and we realise that we are not ourselves to be trusted with that power. Human Kindness can directly cause evil to flourish when our societies are themselves vulnerable to corruption. The prevailing attitude now is that people should have as little power as possible, such that they can do no wrong with it. This includes dictators and senators, media barons and CEOs every bit as much as the common man, and it is why Democracy is perceived as the only worthwhile system of governance we have established to date.

 

[ediblemitten]

This might be news to some of you but mankind as a species is a rather hate-filled and angry species.

So how exactly could humanity "get lost" in something that pretty much defines it?

When are you ever going to realize the fact that this lovey-dovey "humanity is really good deep inside" bullshit is just pink-misted idealism and not representative of what humanity really is?

I'll put it in simple terms for you so that you might understand:

"mankind is really good" = Idealism, i.e what most people WANT to be true.

Mankind is hate-filled and angry = Reality, i.e what's actually going on.

Get it?

Is it though? Even in the worst people I know I've seen good, I've seen them defy the very evil they say they are. Humanity isn't "Really good" Its flawed, but its good at the same time.

Honestly, these threads are getting tired very quickly. People have always have been angry and dramatic. There have always been savage, terrible people, there has always been war, there has always been hate, killing and, ahem, 'drama'. Actually, we've improved markedly as a race in my opinion. Look up the Thirty Years War, the great dick-swinging, aristocratic's-last-breath, slaughterfest that was world war I, maybe the Mongol conquests, or have a look at the Taiping rebellion, and them come back and tell me WE'RE hateful and angry.

We are, we're also ignorant to the world, how many people suffer to make your clothes because they work on less then minimum wage? How many people die in africa and we just don't care? How many people suffer in poverty in our own cities and we give them a few dimes and call it our good deed? We've gone backward, we just disguise it with the media.

So vast increases in life expectancy, almost all across the world, is a bad thing? Great leaps in technology? Treaties drafted that recognize universal human rights? Increased openness and trade? The eradication of deadly diseases, like smallpox and polio? The abolition of slavery, the breaking up of colonial empires, the numerous laws drafted giving women the right to vote, are all bad? So we should all go back to the hunk-dory, good old days when honest farmers tilled the land and fed their families, with home grown natural food, and there were no cars or pollution, and hardworking folk lived in quaint, cute villages, co-existing in peace and harmony with their fellow man, singing songs and dancing under rainbows, right?

Those in the first world cannot even fathom how good they've got it nowadays.

 

[gabe12301]

Humanity is humanity. stop judging it and you won't have any issues.

 

[spartan231490]

give it a few years. You'll understand.
jk jk
I doubt things are any difference. You can find one video from the "old days" that supports kindness ect. i can find one video from now that shows the same thing. one video doesn't mean much.

 

[crop52]

Oh look, a typical teenager on the internet.

Humanity has always been this way. Just ask Rockstar Games.

 

[Saviordd1]

This might be news to some of you but mankind as a species is a rather hate-filled and angry species.

So how exactly could humanity "get lost" in something that pretty much defines it?

When are you ever going to realize the fact that this lovey-dovey "humanity is really good deep inside" bullshit is just pink-misted idealism and not representative of what humanity really is?

I'll put it in simple terms for you so that you might understand:

"mankind is really good" = Idealism, i.e what most people WANT to be true.

Mankind is hate-filled and angry = Reality, i.e what's actually going on.

Get it?

Is it though? Even in the worst people I know I've seen good, I've seen them defy the very evil they say they are. Humanity isn't "Really good" Its flawed, but its good at the same time.

Honestly, these threads are getting tired very quickly. People have always have been angry and dramatic. There have always been savage, terrible people, there has always been war, there has always been hate, killing and, ahem, 'drama'. Actually, we've improved markedly as a race in my opinion. Look up the Thirty Years War, the great dick-swinging, aristocratic's-last-breath, slaughterfest that was world war I, maybe the Mongol conquests, or have a look at the Taiping rebellion, and them come back and tell me WE'RE hateful and angry.

We are, we're also ignorant to the world, how many people suffer to make your clothes because they work on less then minimum wage? How many people die in africa and we just don't care? How many people suffer in poverty in our own cities and we give them a few dimes and call it our good deed? We've gone backward, we just disguise it with the media.

So vast increases in life expectancy, almost all across the world, is a bad thing? Great leaps in technology? Treaties drafted that recognize universal human rights? Increased openness and trade? The eradication of deadly diseases, like smallpox and polio? The abolition of slavery, the breaking up of colonial empires, the numerous laws drafted giving women the right to vote, are all bad? So we should all go back to the hunk-dory, good old days when honest farmers tilled the land and fed their families, with home grown natural food, and there were no cars or pollution, and hardworking folk lived in quaint, cute villages, co-existing in peace and harmony with their fellow man, singing songs and dancing under rainbows, right?

Those in the first world cannot even fathom how good they've got it nowadays.

Yet for every single thing you mentioned there has been a negative or that has simply been ignored.

Are human rights followed in third world nations? Do all women all across the world have the vote? How much has that technology corrupted us?

Of course not everything is bad, but its not all good either. All in all I consider myself a trans-humanist but I see that the world has taken what it has been given and simply ignored it.

What I'm saying is that humanity has far to go and so much more work to do, and that people seem to be forgetting that.

 

[Housebroken Lunatic]

every single human being gets up every single day and trys to "better themselves" and/or likewise those they care about.

we may not agree with they methods they undertake or their reasoning but ultimately every single one does this every single day.

whether its a "professional criminal" or a "good cop", a "brave solider" or a "terrorist", a "hard working family man" or a "welfare cheat", a "right wing politician" or a "left wing politician" and even someone working in a sweatshop or living a life of backbreaking toil living off the land.

eve.ry.one.

the underlying aim of every action undertaken or avoided is always, in essence, the same.

to advance. to do that which that person thinks would make things "better".
whether in a personal sense or in collectivist sense or in a more esoteric sense.

have a long hard think about that fact sometime.
because the simple truth of that is undeniable.

"primal" "hate" and "anger" are not what drives humanity at all.

Correction: everyone is trying to improve things FOR THEMSELVES. And their hate and anger drives them to do just this, but at the cost of others.

So hate and anger DO drive humanity. Your little trivial opinion about it is irrelevant.

Even biological science supports my stance. Check up on "the selfish gene" and you'll see for your self.

 

[Adam28]

Correction: everyone is trying to improve things FOR THEMSELVES. And their hate and anger drives them to do just this, but at the cost of others.

So hate and anger DO drive humanity. Your little trivial opinion about it is irrelevant.

Even biological science supports my stance. Check up on "the selfish gene" and you'll see for your self.

No it doesn't, you came up with this anger and hate motivation idea yourself. Even if it is for themselves, this is not always driven by anger and hate.

OT: Ugh, the negativity of some people on this site....

 

[SnakeoilSage]

We're all creatures of conflicting natures, and we likely always will be. That's the truth about existence; it is never absolute. We resist, we give in, we compromise, every day. We cannot choose one, can't live our lives focused on a single choice, because our three options will destroy us if we chose only one, and only that one, or if we choose not to choose at all.

History demands a toll in blood; ours, their's, or those yet to come. We cannot pass from one age to the next without making that choice, without deciding to resist, to give in, or to compromise. No age in history has progressed without making that choice, no point in history has been so much more important than our own, no matter how primitive those who came before us may have seemed; they had to make the same choices we do, and those choices are timeless, existing in a state that goes beyond progress.

I guess what I mean is, the world can seem teetering on the brink. But then it always has to the perspective of those living in troubled times. And we've made it so far. We've created as much as we've destroyed. We've learned as much as we've lost. So far we have made the choices that, while not always perfect, make a step in the right direction. We fix what we can, learn from our mistakes, and carry these things with us so the next choice can be made with greater understanding. It will never be easy to choose, but we do the best we can.

And I know this, because we're still here. We're still dreaming. And we still bury our dead.

 

[Crazy]

People tortured and killed others because they didn't believe in what everyone else believed. You don't see that happening around the world today now do you? And people today are not the barbarians people were in the past.

 

[FrankatronX]

Oh look, another one of these threads. Lovely.

Haters gonna hate man.

 

[Panzer_God]

There's literally just one person (that I can think of) who can constantly rant or complain and still be entertaining - David Mitchell. Not everyone (in fact, pretty much nobody) has that talent. When an average person attempts this sort of humor, it just comes off as raw hatred and anger, without any semblance of wit or intelligence, or most importantly, anything interesting.

Not everyone doing that is attempting humor. I hate on things for one very simple reason, because I hate them. I don't try to be funny, I am expressing legitimate displeasure in an overly vocal and excitable fashion.

People tortured and killed others because they didn't believe in what everyone else believed. You don't see that happening around the world today now do you? And people today are not the barbarians people were in the past.

Yes, I do, and yes, we are. Humanity as a whole are vicious, stupid barbarians.

 

[Frozen Donkey Wheel2]

Oh look, another one of these threads. Lovely.

Haters gonna hate man.

I'd like you to qualify that statement. What exactly are you accusing him of hating? (Note that I'm not the guy who posted the "Oh look..." comment)

 

[Housebroken Lunatic]

care to explain how "hate" and "anger" equates, in any way, with "selfishness" ?

because quite simply as far as i can see it doesn't other than the fact you are asserting it does.

people don't work day after day to better themselves and the situations of those they care about because they motivated by "hate" or are "anger".

you simply making an statement to try and prove a point and hoping people will blindly nod acceptingly along with it.

and PS the selfish gene has much to say on the biological nature of altruism and how it relates to "selfishness". i suggest you read the book again...if you even have in the first place...

It's a simple mathematical equation really. What usually happens when you put one selfish person with another selfish person, and their selfish goals somehow conflict (like they always do).

It harks back to the old addage that if you put two people on a deserted island, then one will try to lord over and oppress the other.

The motivations and methods might vary at first, but it always leads to hate and anger in the end. That's why these are the only true motivations to the human condition. Hate/anger has driven people to do some of the greatest acts in history. You might frown upon how genocide and war lead to peoples death and how this conflicts with your lovey-dovey idealism that you fill your heads with because of the pleasant feelings you get from it, but there's no denying that hate and anger make people move entire mountains and destroy entire civilizations.

Hatred of others and of our surroundings trying to keep us down is what made us survive. Without hatred, our ancestors would've just curdled up in a little ball and died at the hands of a cruel and violent nature.

 

[Indeterminacy]

Hatred of others and of our surroundings trying to keep us down is what made us survive. Without hatred, our ancestors would've just curdled up in a little ball and died at the hands of a cruel and violent nature.

If you'd said "fear" I'd have supported you here. But hatred isn't just one's predisposition towards something to fight it or run away from it. Hate is a state of extreme emotional response to something; where one makes the removal of or from the subject an active personal ambition. It's a very abstract concept in comparison with something like survival or mutual self-interest.

Why should it be obvious that hostile personal ambition is central to survival? One would assume that unless one already existed in an environment of empathy, individuals who hated would be quickly isolated from the group with a more immediate goal of strategising for food, shelter and defense.

 

[FrankatronX]

Oh look, another one of these threads. Lovely.

Haters gonna hate man.

I'd like you to qualify that statement. What exactly are you accusing him of hating? (Note that I'm not the guy who posted the "Oh look..." comment)

I read it as sarcasm.

 

[Tsukuyomi]

If you wonder where the good in humanity has gone, well...basically it means you're not looking in the right places. It DOES exist, this I know. (Note that I am also a Retail Drone, someone who has seen the dreaded selfishness of many a person.) I've seen it. I've had human kindness bestowed upon me. It exists, although these days it is buried quite deep.

You're not really missing anything, despite being young. The fact that you're asking is proof of that. The problem is not that goodness and positive notions left, it's just that they're hidden by the world. It's outmaneuvered, outnumbered, and outgunned. The Rage and Hate and Cynicism is prevalent because today's modern society is conductive to it.

This has all been said of course, but then the real question comes up. It's the question that separates people and forms the sides of this topic that we've seen so far: You know the world is lacking and/or buries kindness and good notions. What do you DO in the face of that? How do you react?

In my more introspective moments I tend to equate it with being shipwrecked at sea. The situation is plain and clear. The real question is what do you do? Do you cling to the wreckage and hold out hope that rescue, one day, will come? Or do you allow the cold currents to drag you under to misery and death?

These days I feel it's almost like clinging to wreckage in a storm. Waves of Nihilism and Despair rage and wash over you, and every time you have to fight to cling to that wreckage. To believe that something good still exists in this pitch black ocean of negativity.

Some people have long since given up and sunk to the bottom. Their lives are easier because they gave in. They're never hurt or disappointed by each new wave of selfishness, rage, stupidity, pettiness. But, when humanity makes a triumph of kindness or compassion, do they feel it? Does it make them feel as good as those who still tirelessly cling to hope? Or are they so drowned that the light never penetrates through the cold and gloom?

It takes courage (and perhaps a bit of masochism) to stay afloat. But personally? I keep fighting. If I sink...well, if I sink I may not be alive to see another day.

------------------------------

Yeah, yeah. It's all just pretty words. I know. But hopefully you get the point. Goodness exists. So does the bad stuff. It's known fact that you're going to get hit with the bad stuff more than good. The question is, as always, is how do you handle that? How you handle it makes all the difference.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

I love the use of irony in that video.

 

[Indeterminacy]

Yeah, yeah. It's all just pretty words. I know. But hopefully you get the point. Goodness exists. So does the bad stuff. It's known fact that you're going to get hit with the bad stuff more than good. The question is, as always, is how do you handle that? How you handle it makes all the difference.

But you could say all of that in a world where goodness didn't exist. Your shipwreck might have had no wreckage - the whole thing might be at the bottom of the ocean. And the world might be flooded with no hope of your ever reaching dry land. And yet you could keep swimming out of "hope".

That's not to say it isn't worth swimming, since as far as your understanding of the situation goes, you might as well hang on. It's also not to say that there's something fundamentally problematic with optimism of the kind you're describing. But what might be worth considering is the Constructive perspective. Would it be better to try to find dry land, to set up a life for yourself there? Or perhaps, accepting that you're stuck in the ocean, to actively hunt for resources that might make for a sustainable existence? The realisation that nobody is coming for you can be a powerful motivator to do those things.