Humans can't evolve.

[Alex_P]

Humanity is evolving. The average height two hundred years ago was a lot smaller then the standard height today.

Survival of the Fittest is gone (for now...) but that doesn't mean we are not changing as a species.

That's mostly the consequence of better nutrition, not genetic drift.

-- Alex

Bullshit

Good health doesn't make an entire species get 2 feet taller on average.

"2 feet" is a number you pulled out of your ass.

Do you really think that an adult human from 200 years ago would be, on average, two feet shorter than one living today? Do you really? So, what, the average Revolutionary War soldier was four feet tall? Hey, lets go dig up some Mycenaean Greeks -- I bet they'll all be as tall as ten-year-olds!

A gain of several inches in the last few hundred years, which is what we've actually observed, could easily be the result of improved health and nutrition -- much more easily than it could be the result of genetic drift. And that is, in fact, the prevailing theory.

-- Alex

 

[TwistedEllipses]

Another point is that humanity is cross breeding like never before. This will lead to a rise of more and more human "mutts". This is a good thing I believe as mixed breeds, like in dogs, are genetically superior in many ways. I would actually love for some college to do a study on this in humans. I know that cross breed dogs are less inclined to all of the genetic defects that plague most pure breeds. I have a theory that humanity will become more and more cross breed as the centuries go on. If this continues at such a high rate there will almost humans that are not of some major mixed race. Tiger Woods is a perfect example of this. I think it is wonderful.

This in itself is an interesting topic. Humans colonised the globe but some colonies were more isolated. The relative separation between islands and continents in the past has meant that different people from around the world have developed different heights and skin pigmentation to suit their environment. In that way I'm blaming evolution for racism.

Greater global interactivity means a bigger gene pool, which means less susceptibility to disease so that's a plus too.

 

[Alex_P]

Not even. Mind uploading all the way, genetic engineering is too messy. Besides, how do you know what horrible repercussions curing cancer might have? It might be a side effect to a necessary genetic trait.

The "horrible repercussions" of stopping cancer with genetic engineering or light nanotechnology are completely, utterly, you-need-Knuth's-up-arrow-notation-to-describe-how-big-of-a-different-there-is dwarfed by the "horrible repercussions" of creating human beings who are not tied to physical bodies.

-- Alex

 

[axia777]

Another point is that humanity is cross breeding like never before. This will lead to a rise of more and more human "mutts". This is a good thing I believe as mixed breeds, like in dogs, are genetically superior in many ways. I would actually love for some college to do a study on this in humans. I know that cross breed dogs are less inclined to all of the genetic defects that plague most pure breeds. I have a theory that humanity will become more and more cross breed as the centuries go on. If this continues at such a high rate there will almost humans that are not of some major mixed race. Tiger Woods is a perfect example of this. I think it is wonderful.

I couldn't care less about evolution. Who needs that anymore. The only thing that needs to evolve is technology.

Yes, the technology of genetic manipulation. So humans can manipulate the species into super beings of incredible power. That is the real future of human kind. Once scientists master the genetic codes who knows what they can do. They might even be able to lengthen the lives of people up to 200+ years. We could most ly be strong as apes and fast as cheetahs. People may laugh at these ideas, but I am being very very serious. No more baldness, sickness, cancer, AIDS, none of it anymore. Everyone will be a genius. It will be awesome!

Not even. Mind uploading all the way, genetic engineering is too messy. Besides, how do you know what horrible repercussions curing cancer might have? It might be a side effect to a necessary genetic trait.

How on Earth can you know if genetic manipulation is "too messy"? Scientists just need to master the genetic DNA sequence of humans. Sure some bad mistakes will be made along the way, but as the old saying goes "You have to crack as few eggs to make an omelet."

Mind uploading is only good for individuals. Genetic manipulation of the whole race will help all future humans over a period of time. It is much more permanent that way.

Because, regardless of whether or not scientists "master" DNA, it's still going to require breeding and physical manipulation of DNA. It's also going to take a long time.
Mind uploading provides all the benefits and a LOT more than genetic manipulation.

I do have to concede to your last point, but I still don't think it's worth it over mind uploading.

On the point of Mind Uploading I actually agree with you. For people who are all ready born this is most likely the best route of an extended life among other the other benefits. It is a matter of immediate use for us.

With genetic manipulation I am mainly referring to future generations who are not born yet. Children that are genetically manipulated before birth made to be greater than the sum of their parents. Imagine if this was done for hundreds of years? The possibilities are really endless.

Not even. Mind uploading all the way, genetic engineering is too messy. Besides, how do you know what horrible repercussions curing cancer might have? It might be a side effect to a necessary genetic trait.

The "horrible repercussions" of stopping cancer with genetic engineering or light nanotechnology are completely, utterly, you-need-Knuth's-up-arrow-notation-to-describe-how-big-of-a-different-there-is dwarfed by the "horrible repercussions" of creating human beings who are not tied to physical bodies.

-- Alex

What repercussions of mind uploading? I personally would want to uploaded to a high grade cybernetic shell body, like the Major in Ghost in The Shell with her cyber-brain.

 

[RufusMcLaser]

Damn straight, this is my thought provoking thread over so lets get someone else who complains about the quality of the Escapist threads to make the next one. But it will have to be bloody good to overpower that "how many badges do you have" thread.

....Good point. I hereby recant.

 

[Samurai Goomba]

Humanity is evolving. The average height two hundred years ago was a lot smaller then the standard height today.

Survival of the Fittest is gone (for now...) but that doesn't mean we are not changing as a species.

What about the average height four or five THOUSAND years ago? What about all the stories about giants, and the giant-sized stuff that archiologists (sp) keep digging up? What about documentation in ancient texts about giants?

I'm not saying you're 100% wrong, or that's there's no way you could be right, but I think you're making one big blanket statement. Qualify that sucker.

Actually it has been documented that humans were MUCH taller than us when we were first around. Then came the Ice Age, and we got smaller and shorter so we would need less food. After that, we began to get taller and bigger again.

Woah. Somebody who doesn't disagree with me. This is a new experience. Hold on a minute-I think I'll go document this.

As for all you other guys, I had ASSUMED I heard the "giant" stuff from multiple, reputable sources. I quick Google search does not seem to yield any results, however, so whatever. I don't know what was with all the snarky posts. I thought I heard something, looked it up and found I couldn't find any evidence. Whatever. It's not like I really care.

It's like if you hear a story on TV, then repeat it to somebody. Maybe it's true, maybe not. There's a lot of "documentation" on giants, but I wasn't able to find any supporting evidence offhand. Unfortunately, most of the people in support of the "giant" idea seem to be using it as a foothold to prove their religious beliefs. I just heard the story and thought it would be a neat idea if it were true.

See, I can be snarky, too.

 

[Booze Zombie]

Since the current escapist fad is on gender and species I think this is fitting.

Humans can' evolve, we have too many people with too many random genes able to breed. Even when inferior humans would die off, medical science saves them so they can breed and spread their stupid throughout humanity.

The only way Humanity will evolve to be stronger, faster, smarter etc is to force the World's best and brightest to breed in an enclosed environment for several generations until we have a race of better people that can spread their favourable genes through out the gene pool. We already know that this will work because we have thousands of years of practice on dogs so all we need is public approval which won't happen, why won't the public approval?

The public won't approve because ethics and morals are getting in the way of progress; progress which could be easily made if we stop letting people breed with who ever they want rather than who is best for humanity.

I post this knowing full well that I will be flamed/banned but just know that when you whine your loss of faith in humanity, it is because you don't support forced breeding.

Actually, we've stopped evolving because we don't need to. We've at our prime, dominating a whole planet, with the power to murder entire ecosystems and tamper with things at genetic level.

We're the most succesful animal on the planet.

 

[Mr. Moose]

Humanity is evolving. The average height two hundred years ago was a lot smaller then the standard height today.

Survival of the Fittest is gone (for now...) but that doesn't mean we are not changing as a species.

That's mostly the consequence of better nutrition, not genetic drift.

-- Alex

Bullshit

Good health doesn't make an entire species get 2 feet taller on average.

"2 feet" is a number you pulled out of your ass.

Do you really think that an adult human from 200 years ago would be, on average, two feet shorter than one living today? Do you really? So, what, the average Revolutionary War soldier was four feet tall? Hey, lets go dig up some Mycenaean Greeks -- I bet they'll all be as tall as ten-year-olds!

A gain of several inches in the last few hundred years, which is what we've actually observed, could easily be the result of improved health and nutrition -- much more easily than it could be the result of genetic drift. And that is, in fact, the prevailing theory.

-- Alex

Height is controlled by genes
Eating things won't change genes

How does Good Nutrition change the genetic structure of an entire species, hm?

 

[Klagermeister]

Evolution was always a fun thing to debate.
I got off on a tangent with my biology teacher once.
Anyway, truth be told, I successfully defended creationism.

 

[Booze Zombie]

Height is controlled by genes
Eating things won't change genes

How does Good Nutrition change the genetic structure of an entire species, hm?

Hey, buddy, without the proper resources, you can't grow past a certain height.

For instance, you think I could grow tall eating nothing but wheat and beef? I'd be porty, but not tall. Our genes simply dictate the limits, not what our environment can provide.

 

[Hunde Des Krieg]

I've long ago come to the conclusion that human's technology renders our evolution a moot point, the only thing that may happen to us in the future is increased brain size.

 

[Mookie_Magnus]

Eventually, mankind will start colonising outer space. The first colonies are going to be people who have been hand-picked to survive the rigours of space travel and are skilled at something required for space travel. The first terraformers will be hardy specimens indeed, trained in biology, geology and other fields that would be suited to taking a patch of alien soil and making it support human life. These pioneers will be our first steps into outer space, the elite, those who make it past the required screening processes.

By the time space travel advances to the point that they can cart off a few thousand dirt farmers and throw them on some backwater planet and see if they do alright, earth will have destroyed itself in nuclear fire and the descendants of those colonists will be the only humans left.

Hopefully this happens in my lifetime after I get my degree for Human Genetics.
That way, I'll be one of the people altering human DNA for life on other planets..
The tough thing though, would be not succumbing to the urge to experiment outside the acceptable guidelines and end up creating transgenic human monsters..or furries(no offense) and letting them get into the breeding population and possibly cause some kind of inter-species war..
But still, I hope to be able to be one of the first Geneticists to clone a human being..(unless it's already been done) Legally, that is.

 

[cuddly_tomato]

Humanity is evolving. The average height two hundred years ago was a lot smaller then the standard height today.

Survival of the Fittest is gone (for now...) but that doesn't mean we are not changing as a species.

That's mostly the consequence of better nutrition, not genetic drift.

-- Alex

Bullshit

Good health doesn't make an entire species get 2 feet taller on average.

"2 feet" is a number you pulled out of your ass.

Do you really think that an adult human from 200 years ago would be, on average, two feet shorter than one living today? Do you really? So, what, the average Revolutionary War soldier was four feet tall? Hey, lets go dig up some Mycenaean Greeks -- I bet they'll all be as tall as ten-year-olds!

A gain of several inches in the last few hundred years, which is what we've actually observed, could easily be the result of improved health and nutrition -- much more easily than it could be the result of genetic drift. And that is, in fact, the prevailing theory.

-- Alex

Height is controlled by genes
Eating things won't change genes

How does Good Nutrition change the genetic structure of an entire species, hm?

No, height is controlled by a very large number of factors, including arthritis, diet (skeleton formation during childhood) etc.

We're the most succesful animal on the planet.

Except rats, cockroaches, termites, ants, flies, etc.

 

[God's Clown]

While human's may have stopped evolving, the technology we make is constantly evolving. Human's have the ability to adapt to things other animals can't. The sheer tenacity of the human race to advance ourselves makes up for our lack of evolution.

Oh, also, we need the hicks as well. The human needs someone to do stupid shit to make us laugh, and they do it best. Let them set themselves on fire, let them shoot themselves, let them do the stupid shit that it is they do, cause it's funny.

 

[Archemetis]

Evolution in the sense that people will develop in more useful ways is likely never going to happen, Creatures in the world evolve to adapt to their surrounding, so say a certain type of amphibious reptile lives in a an area that, thanks to global warming has now become a year-round drought zone, it will adapt to become a creature less dependant on Hydration, or it will adapt to develop ways of finding moisture. to fill a niche in it's own life.

The same for when something wipes out a specific species of anhimal that another species had previously lived on, the surviving animals will find a substitute for their previous diet and that can also be considered adaptation, not evolution in a sense, but it's the same principle that i'm working on.

People however, because we've arrived at the stage where more and more machines are doing everything for us, we have no reason to adapt.

If anyone has seen the humans from the move Wall.E then they have likely seen what humans will look like in a few hundred years, that is assuming of course that we haven't destroyed the world before we venture into Space.

 

[Uncompetative]

The earth isn't flat, nor is it at the centre of the Universe. Yet people held these ideas in their heads until new ideas supplanted them. This is how progress is being made. Philosophy. Science. Invention. Culture. Politics. These are all just a bunch of competing Memes, evolving our society so fast (and not necessarily in a 'good' direction, remember evolution is adaptive not progressive) that it deserves to be called:

Hyperevolution.

No, people just learn things. Evolution is a specific event that concerns the altering of a species. "Memes" is an unproven hypothesis which concerns itself with some concept of collective thoughts leading to fads. Yeah, fashions happen, and you get millions of people buying High School Musical DVDs even though it's crap. But that is hardly evolution and those fads never last more than a year or two.

Anyone remember Rubik cubes? Or those little rubber squids people used to wet then throw at walls and watch them crawl down? Or the Ninja Turtles? If "memes" are a relevant and real phenomena they are an afterthought of humanity. Todays cheap plastic and tomorrows garbage.

I really don't know how to respond to someone who thinks Copernicus is as trivial as Zac Efron.

 

[cuddly_tomato]

The earth isn't flat, nor is it at the centre of the Universe. Yet people held these ideas in their heads until new ideas supplanted them. This is how progress is being made. Philosophy. Science. Invention. Culture. Politics. These are all just a bunch of competing Memes, evolving our society so fast (and not necessarily in a 'good' direction, remember evolution is adaptive not progressive) that it deserves to be called:

Hyperevolution.

No, people just learn things. Evolution is a specific event that concerns the altering of a species. "Memes" is an unproven hypothesis which concerns itself with some concept of collective thoughts leading to fads. Yeah, fashions happen, and you get millions of people buying High School Musical DVDs even though it's crap. But that is hardly evolution and those fads never last more than a year or two.

Anyone remember Rubik cubes? Or those little rubber squids people used to wet then throw at walls and watch them crawl down? Or the Ninja Turtles? If "memes" are a relevant and real phenomena they are an afterthought of humanity. Todays cheap plastic and tomorrows garbage.

I really don't know how to respond to someone who thinks Copernicus is as trivial as Zac Efron.

There is no need for you to respond. Being psychic, you already know what I would say anyway surely?

 

[Uncompetative]

I really don't know how to respond to someone who thinks Copernicus is as trivial as Zac Efron.

There is no need for you to respond. Being psychic, you already know what I would say anyway surely?

What am I thinking now?

(I just want to see if we have a two-way channel...)