Humans in rpgs

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Gingerman

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number4096 said:
a few things bug me with the way humans are shown in rpgs:

-first,humans are shown as a balanced species,when in reality they are probably the most heavily specialised of all animals.

-Humans are shown as more diversified than everyone else,when in reality,animals are just as diversified as humans are from an individual to the other.Any species that reproduce sexually will have this sort of diversity.And as can be seen outside,people tend to copy each other and do the same things,with those behaving differently from the mass being called exceptions,for a reason.

-Humans are oftenly shown as magic users,which kind of breaks any forms of resemblance with real humans.They should be called something else at least.

-Humans are too oftenly shown as english europeans rather than other ethnicities or at least other europeans than english europeans.This is not so bad until other ethnicities are shown as different species altogether(Redguards,anyone?).Or when the very first humans to born are shown as caucasians rather than africans.It is not racist,but it is inaccurate in relation to reality.They should at least be called something else.

-Humans are oftenly shown as the good guys.Look at human history for three seconds.You will see on how many levels this is wrong(Humans should be shown as worthy,powerful villains who make other species tremble in fear if anything.With demons and other evil species being hunted down for sport.).

-The fixation on swords is impractical and inaccurate.The only useful swords to ever appear were the roman gladius and the japanese katana,and even these had to be paired with a shield or a wakizashi to be useful.Spears and polearms in general were always better than any other melee weapons(Case in point:Honda Tadakatsu and Tomoe Gozen.).Why the fixation on swords?Or England?Or goody-two-shoes?Villainous and powerful humans would be both more authentic and more interesting to play than goody-two-shoes.

Sorry,that was long,what do you think?
I'll do this in numbers.

1)We are the middle man in comparison to elves and dwarves if you look at lots of fantasy games this is the case.

2)Most medieval fantasy novels are set in a European like setting where not much exploring has been done hence why there isn't many black or Asian people roaming about, also the people who play these kind of games tend to be white.

3)Others have comment on this one enough

4)Spears are only good for large scale battles in tight formations otherwise they are quite useless (in real life don't use destiny warriors as a reference please). The sword in a small confrontation can parry, block, rappel, slash, stab and bash whilst all a spear can do is parry (with great difficulty) block and stab. A sword is also more flexible to use.

Now with the bloody katana...

Its a good weapon for slashing meat/wood but against chainmail or plate its next to useless as both armor types are built against slashing weapons (But are weak against piercing hence why the longbow did so well )

Its times like these I really wish I didn't have that degree in history... I weep softly inside.

Edit: And about Tolkien...

He did not create the sterotype of elves and dwarfs he merely pulled them out of the mythologies they came from.

In norse mythology dwarves lived under the mountains and were very good at metal crafts. They were also depicted to have very big beards (but the same height as humans) all Tolkien did was change them slightly to his liking.

Elves used to be small little fairies creatures that played tricks on humans. All Tolkien did was make them tall and good with bows.

So please give the Celts and the Vikings some credit when it comes to who made the elves and dwarves...
 

Wilbot666

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Aug 21, 2009
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Human mages were always fun to play in D&D video-games like Baldur's Gate etc, but in retrospect why the hell would you want to spend your paltry 100 years of life as a human perfecting the arcane arts when you could just as easily choose an elf or half-elf race and live 3 times as long, meaning you might actually get laid as well as learn Fireball?? :p
 

Guitarmasterx7

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Usually humans are snobby dicks in RPGs and are the balanced class (ergo not magic users) that specialize mostly in blades. Also, the claymore would like a word with you, and wasn't the wakizashi just an honor symbol? IIRC the samurai would only use it to commit hari-kari.
 

number4096

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Jan 26, 2010
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For spears i was mostly refering to asian martial arts rather than european ones.

Katanas have very powerful stabbing abilities,science tested it.
 

Axolotl

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More Fun To Compute said:
Only the final scene counts?
Yes since thats where themes show through the most.

Planescape: Torment let you literally kill yourself to win. In Vampire: Bloodlines you pretty much had to reject power to win but that was a sort of reject power by killing everyone deal. Deus Ex and Mask of the Betrayer come to mind as well.
And you pick several games I'm playing through at the moment. Damn.


number4096 said:
bayonets and spears are different.Ask any martial artist.
How exatly? They're both sharp blades on the end of sticks.

swords take less space,so the germans used them.
Sword do not take up less space than bayonets, they take up considerably more.
 

Nomanslander

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This thread reminds me of the argument Yahtzee brought up in his Dragon Age: Origins review.

Only thing I want to say is I agreed with him that RPGs need to stop basing everything on JRR's work.

For instance why not an RPG based on Greek mythology or Egyptian mythology?

If you think Greek Mythology wouldn't do well in a game then how do you explain God of War?

It would be nice if they try and make an RPG out of it for once....
 

number4096

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By evil humans,i meant less snobby nobles and more this:

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs36/f/2008/260/c/1/Death_Dealer_by_ricardoafranco.jpg
 

Axolotl

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number4096 said:
By evil humans,i meant less snobby nobles and more this:

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs36/f/2008/260/c/1/Death_Dealer_by_ricardoafranco.jpg
Would Elric be a good example of what you want more RPGs to have?
 

Nomanslander

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Axolotl said:
number4096 said:
By evil humans,i meant less snobby nobles and more this:

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs36/f/2008/260/c/1/Death_Dealer_by_ricardoafranco.jpg
Would Elric be a good example of what you want more RPGs to have?
That or Conan, too bad there hasn't been a good Frank Frazetta style RPG in a long time...actually when was the last good one ever?
 

The Warden

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I just hate humans in general in RPG games.
Usually because there is a ton of different races and aliens you encounter in them, but do you get to play them?
Hahahaha, NO.
You get stuck with the same Human: White, Black, Asian, Hispanic deal.
I hate it so much.
 

Zacharine

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number4096 said:
Who is Elric?
My guess is he's talking of Elric Of Melniboné, the antihero emperor with the sword Stormbringer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elric_of_Melnibon%C3%A9
 

number4096

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As for what Maze1125 said:

I can easily see human evil throughout human history,but human good needs to be verified.

Preferably with examples.
 

Grand_Arcana

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number4096 said:
As for what Maze1125 said:

I can easily see human evil throughout human history,but human good needs to be verified.

Preferably with examples.
Adoption, charity, medicine in general.
 

Zacharine

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number4096 said:
By evil humans,i meant less snobby nobles and more this:

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs36/f/2008/260/c/1/Death_Dealer_by_ricardoafranco.jpg
As in this guy, called Sarevok:



They (evil humans that are not snobby nobles) are there, by the wagonloads. I'm just guessing you just haven't been playing too many RPGs...
 

number4096

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adoption and charity are almost always done by womens.Guys mostly do it either by being forced into it or for gaining popularity(Correct if wrong.).

Medicine is mostly related to survival instinct than generosity,or money(Again,correct if wrong.).

Even if both are wrong,human evil outweights human good by far,very far.
 

number4096

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About what SakSak just said:

(Cool picture by the way.)I know many more such examples and i know it is not rare in RPGs.

I just think that humans should usually be shown as that much evil/cool.Especially considering human history were a guy like sarevok would fit perfectly(Just look at vikings or mongols,for example.).

Having a bunch of snobby nobles/emo heroes for humans is both unmanly and inaccurate to the gratuitous barbarism seen in human history(Plus a big guy in black armor just rocks.).
 

Zacharine

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number4096 said:
adoption and charity are almost always done by womens.Guys mostly do it either by being forced into it or for gaining popularity(Correct if wrong.).

Medicine is mostly related to survival instinct than generosity,or money(Again,correct if wrong.).

Even if both are wrong,human evil outweights human good by far,very far.
If you get to make unsupported generalizations, then so do I.

Human good far outweights human evil. Otherwise our current societies would never have developed as we all would be raping, murdering, pillaging thieving criminals. The fact that you are not out raping passerby's is proof for my point.

Sorry, my generalization actually had some form of empirical support behinhd it, unlike yours.

Show me I'm wrong. Or stop spouting your ignorant generalizations are some kind of 'truths'.
 

Zacharine

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number4096 said:
About what SakSak just said:

(Cool picture by the way.)I know many more such examples and i know it is not rare in RPGs.

I just think that humans should usually be shown as that much evil/cool.Especially considering human history were a guy like sarevok would fit perfectly(Just look at vikings or mongols,for example.).

Having a bunch of snobby nobles/emo heroes for humans is both unmanly and inaccurate to the gratuitous barbarism seen in human history(Plus a big guy in black armor just rocks.).
But you see, it's not the armoured 'cool' antagonists that cause the most damage. It's those with good intentions, those who speak and entice and conquer by words that do the most harm.

I'm of a contrary belief, we need more of the intelligent, plotting kind of evil in games, rather than just generic armored monstrosities that you get a dozen for a dime.

EDIT: Armor is not cool. A huge sword/polearm/weapon is not cool. A consitent, utterly amoral plan that is not contrived and that actually might work is extremely cool. The ability to adapt those plans to the goody-two-shoe player is cool. Attempting to swing a sword to all your problems is just plain stupid and instantly removes any change the NPC gets to be called a villain.