Hurting animals for cultural/religious reasons

[manic_depressive13]

morality varies between people your morality is just as correct as mine, give a better reason since so far you've given none besides "it's cruel". Things die, it's inevitable, either the cow dies slowly wasting it's life just digesting grass or it dies a little sooner and gets turned into meat for humans to eat.

Yes, morality is subjective, well done. That's beside the point. The ability to empathise with others and to question whether our actions can be considered right or wrong is something inherently human. Not everyone agrees on what is right or wrong, but the vast majority at least have a concept of what they think is moral. We feel the need to rationalise our actions which is why you are here spouting nonsense at me. If you justify killing animals by saying that animals kill each other, which apparently strips them of their right to life, are you not by that very act negating your own right to life by your own reasoning? If "meh, things die" applies to animals, why should it not apply to humans?

Why should I care about the poor and starving? Why should I care when people injure themselves? There is no good reason for it. I simply do.

If the cow had a "humane" death then it wouldn't even realize it had died. Either way whether we eat meat or not they're going to die we're just doing it sooner and re-using the corpse.

Then it should be fine to kill people as long as they don't realise it?

Besides, it's never actually like that. People make mistakes and things go wrong. If only one in a hundred cattle are made to suffer because the initial blow didn't kill them, how is that justified when you consider that we don't even need to slaughter them to maintain our current quality of life. It's cruel and arbitrary.

But here's a morality question for you. If we only ate meat that came from animals that died from old age would you still condone all meat eaters?

I think you mean "condemn", and no, why would I care what happens to a corpse? It isn't the act of eating meat that I am opposed to. It's the fact that in order to attain the meat, we slaughter sentient creatures.

 

[clutch-monkey]

i like hunting, don't see anything wrong with it (useful pest control too in this country).
but there is a code of ethics for it for a reason; i don't think clubbing and sawing at young whales, like i saw once, just because it's part of your 'culture' shouldn't be allowed.

likewise, deliberately causing pain is just not on imo. like the way the eqyptians would just hack a leg off a cow for use etc maybe they just don't view it as a living, aware creature.

 

[lacktheknack]

Not to be racist or anything, but we need to worry about human cruelty before we worry about animal cruelty.

This is probably the first time I've seen a sentence starting with "Not to be racist" that wasn't actually racist... in fact, it was pure non sequitur.

 

[El Dwarfio]

(at least in Australia there is great concern about animal rights - the entire cattle trade to India was stopped last year temporarily because of it, but I'm not sure about much of the rest of the world.

Wait what???

Indians consider cows sacred, it's against the law to harm a cow in india, in some cities such as calcutta and delhi cows are awarded more rights than the lowest castes of humans.

If a cow walks out in front of your car in india you're not allowed to honk your horn in case you startle it.

Why on earth would the Ozzies accuse them of inhumane treatment? And for that matter I can't find any evidence that they ever did.

OT, It's probably wrong, but I can't think of any widespread or prominent animal cruelty practises endorsed by either religions or cultures. What the yankees do to cows in the Californian dairy farms is fucking atrocious (and I guess it could be considered a cultural practise?) I was genuinely shocked when I drove through the region (and I'm all for human superiority over animals). I'm glad I've always refused to drink the milk here.

But really there are much more pressing concerns facing the world right now, remember that cruelty to humans is likely much more prevalent to cruelty to over animals and not to mention we're in the grips of an unprecedented extinction crisis....

Yeah... I'm not gonna lose any sleep over what some small tribe in the amazon do to some poor monkey or whatever.

EDIT:

But here's a morality question for you. If we only ate meat that came from animals that died from old age would you still condone all meat eaters?

I think you mean "condemn", and no, why would I care what happens to a corpse? It isn't the act of eating meat that I am opposed to. It's the fact that in order to attain the meat, we slaughter sentient creatures.

Boohoo? Other creatures slaughter each other and no one condemns that.

We're just better at it.

 

[clutch-monkey]

(at least in Australia there is great concern about animal rights - the entire cattle trade to India was stopped last year temporarily because of it, but I'm not sure about much of the rest of the world.

Wait what???

Indians consider cows sacred, it's against the law to harm a cow in india, in some cities such as calcutta and delhi cows are awarded more rights than the lowest castes of humans.

don't worry dude.

he confused india with indonesia..

 

[ninjaRiv]

We don't like it when aliens mutilate and sacrifice us so why should we do it to animals?

Joking aside, it's just not very nice and there's no point to it. Unless it makes meat more delicious. Does it?

 

[Trippy Turtle]

Doing things for religion or culture I already find a bit stupid. Do a bad thing for those reasons makes me wish they have it done to them.
And historically speaking a lot of things done for religion or culture are bad.

 

[El Dwarfio]

(at least in Australia there is great concern about animal rights - the entire cattle trade to India was stopped last year temporarily because of it, but I'm not sure about much of the rest of the world.

Wait what???

Indians consider cows sacred, it's against the law to harm a cow in india, in some cities such as calcutta and delhi cows are awarded more rights than the lowest castes of humans.

don't worry dude.

he confused india with indonesia..

lmao fair enough, easy enough mistake I guess

 

[Rumpsteak]

I think the problem here is that what is considered humane changes from culture to culture. So in fact, what we're talking about is in fact humane.

 

[Starik20X6]

Stupid. Sure I'm all for people having their beliefs and whatnot, but when your religion/culture demands you hurt anything, I'm sorry, but you're stupid for following it. What could you possibly expect to gain from it? Don't be dragging innocent parties into your arcane beliefs.

 

[madster11]

I think you mean "condemn", and no, why would I care what happens to a corpse? It isn't the act of eating meat that I am opposed to. It's the fact that in order to attain the meat, we slaughter sentient creatures.

You slaughter a 'Sentient' creature pretty much several times every minute just by living and moving around.
Those little insects you step on knew pain, that mosquito or spider you squished had a family, all those moths you hit with your car/face had life.

They all die.

This is called 'being on top of a food chain'.
Humans went for brains and thumbs instead of claws and teeth, and we won. We now have to actively regulate the amount of killing we do for fear that we will wipe other species out, simply for fun.

Now you're trying to tell humans that the cheapest and easiest source of food to obtain - meat - shouldn't be eaten?
Nobility early in our time line were the only ones that ate vegetables and fruits, because meat is the easiest source of food to obtain no matter where you are on the planet. If you're in the middle of the desert, lizard meat is all you will find. South pole? Pick your food - fish, seal, maybe even a bear.

Those reasons and more are why humans are omnivores, and why to this day we still breed creatures and kill them to sustain ourselves.

Do i wish we could change this? No. Meat tastes good and is very essential to human health. Someone who has a balanced diet who eats a nice steak every couple of days will be infinitely more stronger and healthy than a person who eats nothing but plant life.
Do i wish we could treat the animals more humanely before we kill them? Yes.
We have enough space and resources on this planet to give the animals we breed to slaughter at least a quasi-decent life before we kill them. Farmers who keep pigs and chickens and such in places so small they cannot move for their brief life are close to that thin line between 'necessity' and 'antichrist' that they should be worried.

I also don't approve of killing animals simply for sport. If there's an overpopulation problem, they're a pest or it's for food, i have absolutely no problem with hunting. But if you just want to shoot other creatures for the sake of killing, go to a prison and take out some murderers or something. God knows there's enough bad humans on this earth, instead of innocent little bambis.

 

[m72_ar]

Depends,

If you're going to kill it and eat it. No problem.

If you mutilate it and throw it back alive (Shark finning), not cool.
If you hurting it for shit and giggles, super not cool

 

[manic_depressive13]

Boohoo? Other creatures slaughter each other and no one condemns that.

We're just better at it.

Creatures also rape each other and no one condemns it, but they do when humans rape animals.

So yes, boohoo. I think prematurely ending a life is cruel and unnecessary. Boohoo, waaaaah, sob, sniffle.

 

[manic_depressive13]

I think you mean "condemn", and no, why would I care what happens to a corpse? It isn't the act of eating meat that I am opposed to. It's the fact that in order to attain the meat, we slaughter sentient creatures.

You slaughter a 'Sentient' creature pretty much several times every minute just by living and moving around.
Those little insects you step on knew pain, that mosquito or spider you squished had a family, all those moths you hit with your car/face had life.

I love it that vegetarians are the ones often accused of religioius zeal despite the existence of so many meat-eaters like you who like to shit all over science like true fundamentalists.

We know for a fact that all vertebrates feel pain and fear. While it's possible that some invertebrates feel pain, it's unlikely that they feel it to the same extent that vertabrates do. Insects are not conscious in the sense that we recognise, nor are they self aware.

Anyway, it's absurd not to distinguish between accidental and deliberate killing.

Humans went for brains and thumbs instead of claws and teeth, and we won. We now have to actively regulate the amount of killing we do for fear that we will wipe other species out, simply for fun.

We didn't "go for" shit. Things don't choose how they evolve. Don't act as though your good fortune of being born into a world where everything is handed to you on a platter is some sort of personal achievement.

Now you're trying to tell humans that the cheapest and easiest source of food to obtain - meat - shouldn't be eaten?

It is neither the cheapest nor the easiest.

Nobility early in our time line were the only ones that ate vegetables and fruits, because meat is the easiest source of food to obtain no matter where you are on the planet. If you're in the middle of the desert, lizard meat is all you will find. South pole? Pick your food - fish, seal, maybe even a bear.

Hahahahahahaha, no. Not only is that false, it's completely irrelevant. That was before globalisation. We live in a post-industrial society and we're not going back to the middle ages any time soon.

Do i wish we could change this? No. Meat tastes good and is very essential to human health. Someone who has a balanced diet who eats a nice steak every couple of days will be infinitely more stronger and healthy than a person who eats nothing but plant life.

It has been repeatedly proven and demonstrated that meat is not essential to human well being.

Do i wish we could treat the animals more humanely before we kill them? Yes.
We have enough space and resources on this planet to give the animals we breed to slaughter at least a quasi-decent life before we kill them. Farmers who keep pigs and chickens and such in places so small they cannot move for their brief life are close to that thin line between 'necessity' and 'antichrist' that they should be worried.

I also don't approve of killing animals simply for sport. If there's an overpopulation problem, they're a pest or it's for food, i have absolutely no problem with hunting. But if you just want to shoot other creatures for the sake of killing, go to a prison and take out some murderers or something. God knows there's enough bad humans on this earth, instead of innocent little bambis.

Good for you.

 

[killcannon71]

Kill more animals...with spoons. Dull ones. Maybe next someone can go on a crusade to stop animals from eating other animals "inhumanely". I wonder if being a vegetarian affects brain function.

 

[Broax]

I'm very ashamed to admit I live in a country that supports blood sports such as bullfighting... If you are not aware of what this is... Basically some guy shoves as many spears as he can into the back of a bull. When the bull is tired from the bleeding this guy will shove a sword on his neck finishing the bull off.

Something like this: http://bit.ly/L9mQgM (be warned it's a pretty graphic image).

It was legalized due to "historical" and "cultural" reasons. I personally think it's a sick, twisted, sadistic pseudo-sport that keeps us in the middle ages.

 

[clutch-monkey]

I wonder if being a vegetarian affects brain function.

maybe, maybe not, but one glance at websites like, say, this: http://suprememastertv.com/
make me lean towards 'yes'... and for the worse lol

 

[KarmaTheAlligator]

Cruelty against animals isn't viewed the same because they don't have our means of complaining about it, so most people don't even think about it (keep in mind, to most people animals can't even think).

I think they have the exact same means of expressing themselves in this area.

While a human might go, "AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HUUUUUUUUUU AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHgrglrrrrglllehhhhhh...."

A goat would be more like, "BAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HEHIIIIIIIIIIIIII BAHHHHHHghhhh Beghglg... Ghehh gheh geh Glghkkkk...ghk."

Either way, the gist of it is usually understood.

No, you don't get it. If an animal gets abused, sure they can cry and fight a bit, but once they're dead, you don't see the others go on strike or explaining all over the news what happened in gruesome details, or even complaining at all against their companion's unfair treatment. Humans would do this and violently protest such treatment, which is why both types of cruelty aren't viewed the same.