I accidentally got excited about Mass Effect: Andromeda :-(

Apr 5, 2008
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My relationship with games and the industry may or may not be typical, but I find I'm reflecting on it now, a couple of months before Mass Effect: Andromeda's release and my mixed feelings on it. Up until the new year started, I honestly did not care about it, but now out of the blue I find I caught that excitement for a new game that I haven't had for a very, very long time.

I was a child in the 80s, playing on his cousin's Sega Master System, Amstrad, BBC and Sinclair Spectrum. We did have a Vic 20 and briefly, C64, but the 90s, my teen years, were spent playing on an Amiga 500/500+ and a MegaDrive/SNES. I also frequented arcades and was very, very good at SF2. In 97, we got our first actual PC, I started university, joined "the Internet" and played Goldeneye on the N64. In the following years I learned a lot about PCs, the Net, the Web, hardware and what not. I built my own PC and not long after, ADSL became a thing and 56k modems became redundant. Around this time, I got to play some of the greatest games ever made, including Deus Ex and Baldur's Gate II. The latter in particular was really something special. I don't say that now thru rose-tinted glasses or nostalgia, at the time it was really special and to this day, it still is. It's also the start of my love for BioWare.

BG2 was, in the most literal sense, an exceptional game. Stars aligned and it just happened that the right story, IP and dev team came together to make this unrivalled marriage of gameplay mechanics, characterisation and a story that was simultaneously deeply personal and massively epic. I was very excited when Neverwinter Nights came out, especially when we initially thought our Bhaalspawn could be imported into NWN. Tho that didn't happen, the D&D gameplay was still great and more than that, the online component and toolset made for a game that was played and supported for years by a massive community of fans. I was part of that community then, chatting on forums and playing various mods and adventures online.

I eventually got an XBox and enjoyed KotOR greatly and even it's follow up, Jade Empire. These obviously marked the turning point into what BioWare became....no longer maker of PC RPGs but cinematic, console RPGs that got a PC release. Still, they were good and unlike anything else. Then of course, came Mass Effect. BioWare's own sci-fi IP in the style of KotOR, the natural evolution of the "cinematic" storytelling. It would also have the feature missing from NWN...importing our character into later games.

Whatever people will say about its combat, heavy dialogue, etc. it achieved what BW wanted; it established a new universe every bit as rich and interesting as Star Wars or any other IP and also succeeded with its wonderful characters. As far back as Baldur's Gate, all fans will remember some of the best NPCs in the 2000s. Imoen, Viconia, Minsc and Boo, Aribeth & Deekin, Revan, Malak, Carth Onasi and Bastilla Shan, Silk Fox and the Black Whirlwind...memorable, interesting characters. And Mass Effect was as good as any of those and continued to get better.

Dragon Age: Origins also happened, a very good game that never quite managed to fulfil its promise. It would be the last game BioWare ever made that would include a toolset, and sadly one that never saw much use. Support for a new engine, toolset, game world and the rest was cut abruptly short when a sequel came out so soon after with no hint of what DA:O originally promised. It was at this time that tragedy struck however, with the EA buyout of VG Holding Corp [http://www.gamespot.com/articles/ea-buying-bioware-pandemic-for-860m/1100-6180818/], acquiring BioWare and Pandemic, the soon-after shut down creators of the fantastic The Saboteur.

Owning BW gave EA ownership of the Mass Effect and Dragon Age IPs. They made a new studio in Austin to work on SWTOR with the BW name but the only thing it had in common with BW was senior leadership. ME2 came out in this transitory period and had been significantly altered from the first game to suit EAs style of mass-market games. It would also be the last BioWare game that would be available to buy on Steam. Origin came about soon after and ME3 couldn't be played on PC without it. The Two Doctors who founded BW, Zeschuk and Muzyka left the company [https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/09/18/the-doctors-are-out-zeschuk-and-muzyka-leave-bioware/]. Drew Karpshyn, lead writer on ME and ME2 left too [http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-02-17-kotor-mass-effect-lead-writer-drew-karpyshyn-leaves-bioware], which resulted in ME3 (though he did return [http://www.pcgamer.com/mass-effect-lead-writer-drew-karpyshyn-returns-to-bioware/] 3 years later). Lastly, the main creative director of all three ME games, Casey Hudson, also left the company [http://blog.bioware.com/2014/08/07/casey-hudsons-departure-from-biowareea/].

While the gameplay was fine, a third-person sci-fi shooter, the story was a mess of contradictions, vagaries, plot holes and nonsense. The main part of the game, building the crucible, was done wholly off-screen by other people and neither the story, gameplay or infamous ending paid any heed to the players actions in prior games (or, in fact, even the same game). Still, it was the third part of the trilogy and the only ending we'd get, so there was no choice but to settle for it. Fast forward until now.

In the same years, the rest of the industry has also evolved. Ubisoft now sells reskinned versions of "The Ubisoft Game" and others ostensibly copy this formula, such as with Mad Max and Dying Light. Batman and The Witcher were also successful, including the investigation style missions. The last BW game, Dragon Age: Inquisition was a hybrid open-world/MMO thing that was so forgettable I cannot name a single NPC beyond Leliana & Varic, and them only because they were in the previous games. And this is where I find myself torn.

The name Mass Effect in the title has done exactly what EA paid their millions of dollars for; it evokes the name of something I liked to convince me I should like the new thing too. I do love the thought of more biotic, shooty RPG action with a squad of believable, interesting and endearing crewmates, friends and love-interests. Ignoring the mess ME3 made of the story, up until that point the story and setting were fantastic and made playing the games more compelling. Over the years, I've played thru them multiple times with Male/Female Shep, Paragon/Renegade, different LIs and other story variations.

But from the information we have and everything I've learned and experienced from the industry over the years, I'm also worried. I'm afraid it will be a mass-market appeal, Ubisoft game with Batman's "investigations", with compulsory Origin/Denuvo/Online and although they've said "no season pass", I'm just waiting for something else insidious. In fairness, EA have been less evil lately, but this is the games industry and experience dictates there will be some form of on-disc/Day 1 DLC, microtransaction, grindy time-wall thing somewhere. From what I found in my excitement, "exploration" will be going planet to planet [http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2016/11/23/six-fun-activities-to-pursue-in-mass-effect-andromeda.aspx], each offering a DA:I miniature sandbox with "content", sidequesting and one stronghold (which we're reminded is optional). So, it's Mad Max in Andromeda?

I'm torn. I want to play a new Mass Effect game, but the form the new one will take is worrying. None of the main people involved on the original are involved here, the lead writer on it himself left BW a year ago. Will it be DA:I in space? Will it be The Ubisoft Game with Asari and biotics? Since I won't pre-order games any more, at least I'll be able to find out what to expect after release, but despite all my misgivings, I caught the excitement for a new game I honestly can't remember having for a long time before. Where you can't wait for release, to fire it up for the first time and see the BioWare title, which in my head I know isn't the same company but my heart doesn't know that...
 

CaitSeith

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Mass Effect 3 was already aiming for mass-market appeal and downgrading the single-player experience for monetary gains (in other words, outselling ME2 was much more important than being as good or better than ME2). If you suspect ME:A is going to be for mass-market appeal and you liked the action gameplay from ME3, I suspect ME:A won't disappoint us in that aspect. I'm already looking at ME:A as a spin-off, instead of being part of the main series. And as such I don't have many expectations on the story side (they may surprise us, but it's unlikely). On the other side, I doubt it will have anything as disappointing as the ME3 ending (in that sense, the only way they can go is up).

Nothing wrong with getting excited with ME:A; as long as you keep your expectations down.
 

Xprimentyl

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Don?t feel bad, but DO be realistic. You acknowledge that the trend with your beloved developer has been a downward one, and unfortunately, the industry (largely en masse) has eschewed the attitude of ?let?s create something they?ll love and remember? in favor of one of ?let?s churn out anything they?ll pay for.?

I?m not saying you shouldn?t be excited (hope and optimism, after all, can coexist with pragmatism,) I?d just offer that you reserve them in equal parts; hope for the best and prepare for the worst. EA has gone relatively radio silent with anti-consumer moves and changes that overtly fly in our the collective faces, but as they?ve lost nothing thus far, I?m hard-pressed to believe they?ve learned anything either. It is no coincidence that ?Mass Effect? and ?BioWare? are names that perk people?s ears up, and it?s been just enough time between ?the ending of which we shall not speak? and now... My dog?s ears perk up when she hears her treat bag rustling; I don?t take that to mean she enjoys fine food, I take that as she likes to eat and is perfectly happy with processed offal, but every now and again, I toss her a bit of steak or bacon or cheese; let?s hope EA is feeling generous.
 

mavkiel

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I'd hope they learned from DA-I.

My main issues with Dragon age were twofold.

First, the quests were boring. MMO style collect quests without other players to ***** to. Sounds like a layer of hell.

Secondly, there was the combat system. It was simply not fun at all. Fights were something to suffer through until the next dialogue scene. Which made the first issue all the more annoying. It got to the point where I just quit the game and never came back, rather then finish it.

All that being said, the game play footage shown for mass effect looks fun. So that's half the battle.
 

votemarvel

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KingsGambit said:
Dragon Age: Origins also happened, a very good game that never quite managed to fulfil its promise. It would be the last game BioWare ever made that would include a toolset, and sadly one that never saw much use. Support for a new engine, toolset, game world and the rest was cut abruptly short when a sequel came out so soon after with no hint of what DA:O originally promised. It was at this time that tragedy struck however, with the EA buyout of VG Holding Corp [http://www.gamespot.com/articles/ea-buying-bioware-pandemic-for-860m/1100-6180818/], acquiring BioWare and Pandemic, the soon-after shut down creators of the fantastic The Saboteur.
Don't know if the toolset is involved but new mods for Dragon Age: Origins are released all the time.

I'm kind of thankful that Origins was pretty much complete when EA acquired Bioware.

For me it is kind of sad that Bioware went from a developer I would buy games from without question to a "I'll wait for a sale" one in the space of four games.
 

Fox12

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I suspect EA will be even more risk averse after the ME3 debacle. Andromeda will be serviceable, but not memorable. I'm sure the game play will be enjoyable if you liked 2 and 3 (which I admit I did).

As for me, my outrage has turned into total apathy. I just don't care about Bioware anymore.
 

ZeD [taken 0]

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Fox12 said:
I suspect EA will be even more risk averse after the ME3 debacle. Andromeda will be serviceable, but not memorable. I'm sure the game play will be enjoyable if you liked 2 and 3 (which I admit I did).

As for me, my outrage has turned into total apathy. I just don't care about Bioware anymore.
"Even more"?

For ME3, they gave Bioware a deadline. That's it.
They basically had an infinite budget and creative freedom, but on a deadline.

Bioware's problem was that they wanted to do too much.

And it's not like ME3 flopped. Shit sold like ice cream on a hot day. It was a great game with a small (but significant to many), flawed part.
 

Fox12

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ZeDilton said:
Fox12 said:
I suspect EA will be even more risk averse after the ME3 debacle. Andromeda will be serviceable, but not memorable. I'm sure the game play will be enjoyable if you liked 2 and 3 (which I admit I did).

As for me, my outrage has turned into total apathy. I just don't care about Bioware anymore.
"Even more"?

For ME3, they gave Bioware a deadline. That's it.
They basically had an infinite budget and creative freedom, but on a deadline.

Bioware's problem was that they wanted to do too much.

And it's not like ME3 flopped. Shit sold like ice cream on a hot day. It was a great game with a small (but significant to many), flawed part.
Yes and no. I think you're fooling yourself if you believe that EA didn't insert themselves at all. I highly doubt multi-player was optional. That said, you're partially correct. Bioware had a lot more freedom then other EA companies. And they blew it. Which means that EA is less likely to give them total freedom.

As for sales, sure, it did well. But that's not enough. Mass Effect, and Bioware as a whole, took a massive brand hit. People are still pissed about that. This affects the viability of the company in the long run. Bioware and EA know this, which is why they'll be extra careful this time around.
 

Athennesi

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Bioware currently, for me, is mid tier developer. They have been for a longer while, though people are a lot more hyperbolic about them since EA acquisition. BG II is still overall their highest point.
They seem to lack focus and what one game does well, next one outright removes. Andromeda seems so far in same vein: expand mobility, leveling and powers system, but downgrade gunplay and remove companion control.
 

ZeD [taken 0]

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Fox12 said:
ZeDilton said:
Fox12 said:
I suspect EA will be even more risk averse after the ME3 debacle. Andromeda will be serviceable, but not memorable. I'm sure the game play will be enjoyable if you liked 2 and 3 (which I admit I did).

As for me, my outrage has turned into total apathy. I just don't care about Bioware anymore.
"Even more"?

For ME3, they gave Bioware a deadline. That's it.
They basically had an infinite budget and creative freedom, but on a deadline.

Bioware's problem was that they wanted to do too much.

And it's not like ME3 flopped. Shit sold like ice cream on a hot day. It was a great game with a small (but significant to many), flawed part.
Yes and no. I think you're fooling yourself if you believe that EA didn't insert themselves at all. I highly doubt multi-player was optional. That said, you're partially correct. Bioware had a lot more freedom then other EA companies. And they blew it. Which means that EA is less likely to give them total freedom.

As for sales, sure, it did well. But that's not enough. Mass Effect, and Bioware as a whole, took a massive brand hit. People are still pissed about that. This affects the viability of the company in the long run. Bioware and EA know this, which is why they'll be extra careful this time around.
I was under the impression that the multiplayer was outsourced to Bioware Montreal.

You could say a lot of the same about Mass Effect 2. People were shitting on that game left and right when it came out.
The game was pretty bare-bones in terms of the customisation depth, something they tried to balance in ME3.

Bioware is a company that's pretty good at listening to their fans, so they should know what people didn't like.
 

stroopwafel

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Just play the game on it's own terms and leave your expectations at the door. These games have become too expensive to make so if you hope they will cater specifically to a niche of RPG fans you're most likely going to be disappoint. It's pretty obvious Andromeda is a third person shooter with RPG elements but there is still a lot of leeway in terms of story and world building we don't really know much about(espescially since it no longer continues the journey of the characters from the previous games).

Andromeda looks like a cool game to me but then again I favor third person shooters over traditional RPGs. For example Fallout 4 is my favorite game in the franchise for exactly that reason so think of that what you will. :p With Mass Effect the same. The story in ME2 is still my favorite but (atleast for me) there is no denying the gameplay got improved with every game.

Fox12 said:
As for sales, sure, it did well. But that's not enough.
Yes it is. The fact that Andromeda is about to be released is evidence for this. Investors only look at sales figures. If you think they give 2 shits about some angry acne face on youtube being butthurt about the non-ending of his fictional characters you're being naive. The developers might do, sure, but they don't decide if the game gets made or not. The people who allocate the budget(ie EA and it's shareholders) do. And they care about only one thing: sales.
 

CaitSeith

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ZeDilton said:
I was under the impression that the multiplayer was outsourced to Bioware Montreal.

You could say a lot of the same about Mass Effect 2. People were shitting on that game left and right when it came out.
The game was pretty bare-bones in terms of the customisation depth, something they tried to balance in ME3.

Bioware is a company that's pretty good at listening to their fans, so they should know what people didn't like.
Except when the EA overlords intervene and order things like tying up the ending to the multiplayer or re-writing the story after getting leaked. We'll see what they can do now that expectations are at their lowest and not as many people are as hyped as before ME3 release.
 

Terminal Blue

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ZeDilton said:
Bioware is a company that's pretty good at listening to their fans, so they should know what people didn't like.
I think that's actually one of the biggest problems. Bioware pays excessive attention to their fans. If fans criticise something or react to it, they response is usually to rip it out altogether. The Mako sections in Mass Effect were heavily criticised, for example. Do we keep those scenes but fix the vehicle handling and add more interest and variety to the open worlds? Nah.. Just throw in a space trainset and some weird planet scanning minigame instead. What's that? People hate the planet scanning minigame.. Shit, better remove the whole thing and make you use your trainset to run away from things.

DA2 is an even more extreme example. It was rightly shat on for being rushed and having some technical quality issues and unengaging gameplay, but it was also full of interesting ideas which were just dropped like a stone because fans didn't like the game.

I think people are very quick to blame EA for Bioware's issues, but both Bioware and its fans share some of the blame here.
 

LetalisK

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evilthecat said:
ZeDilton said:
Bioware is a company that's pretty good at listening to their fans, so they should know what people didn't like.
I think that's actually one of the biggest problems. Bioware pays excessive attention to their fans. If fans criticise something or react to it, they response is usually to rip it out altogether. The Mako sections in Mass Effect were heavily criticised, for example. Do we keep those scenes but fix the vehicle handling and add more interest and variety to the open worlds? Nah.. Just throw in a space trainset and some weird planet scanning minigame instead. What's that? People hate the planet scanning minigame.. Shit, better remove the whole thing and make you use your trainset to run away from things.

DA2 is an even more extreme example. It was rightly shat on for being rushed and having some technical quality issues and unengaging gameplay, but it was also full of interesting ideas which were just dropped like a stone because fans didn't like the game.

I think people are very quick to blame EA for Bioware's issues, but both Bioware and its fans share some of the blame here.
Bioware is that awkward teenager that wants everyone to like her.
 

pookie101

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im looking forward to it and view it as a fresh start to the series.

although im not going to make the same mistake i did with mass effect 3 and pick up the collectors edition in store as it was shit. literally everything in it was "here's a teaser for something else go and buy the full thing"
 
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I'm so glad that everyone understood what are surprisingly complex feelings. BioWare is the only company that could engender such, having gone from the pinnacle of the industry beloved by all to an EA subsidiary. And since Mass Effect was originally produced by old BioWare but finished by EA BioWare, it straddles both time periods. The dichotomy of the studio before and what it became is the heart of the confusion.

I think the posters who suggested that we know it's a third person shooter with RPG elements, and it has planet exploration, the Nomad/Mako and strongholds, all generic stuff. It still has a Normandy analog and a large cast of NPCs; maybe the ME flavour, characters and gameplay will be enough. It's just so weird that I genuinely didn't spare it a thought, had no interest in it, had moved on and forgotten BW as "somebody that I used to know", as Gotye sang. I haven't been properly excited for a new game in a long time. I don't remember the last...maybe Fallout 4? Modern AAA games are not made for me, I've grudgingly accepted that and made my peace, but here out of the blue I want this one, based on what Mass Effect used to be.

Will anyone be pre-ordering it? For which platform? Will this be the title that brings people to Origin?
 

The Wykydtron

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I do hope the new Mass Effect will be good but I seriously have my doubts after the boring slogfest that was DA:I and ME3 itself wasn't up to the standard of ME2's storywriting. Like there were too many shoutouts to fans in ME3, it felt like every few minutes some old character, reference or straight up meme just shows up like "hey kids, you remember this right lol." Then there's fuckin' EDI who went from cool ship AI to bad robotgirl fanfiction. Christ.

I really think that's one of their problems come to think of it, they listen to their fans incredibly closely and fans can never be pleased. Imagine if someone like Araki did nothing but listen to his fans, Jojo's Bizarre Adventure would still be Jonathan punching people with Sunny D hands instead of the improved STANDO POWAH. Fans don't know shit half the time so feel free to drop half the stuff you're using and put psychic punching ghosts having a time stop battle in. Adding a time stop battle into your game makes it better regardless of context.

Sad how Bioware has stopped being a developer I will 100% buy their games on launch, I really hope they improve again. The 100% must buy game on launch developer for me nowadays is Platinum Games for me, their Nier Automata demo was fucking hype. You give those people freedom, time and money and any game they produce will be solid platinum gold.
 

votemarvel

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I would say that Bioware don't listen to their fans. Well they hear that they dislike something but take no pains to discover why, they just rip it out.

The Mako being a very good example. People wanted more variety of worlds and more consistency in what the Mako could climb. All Bioware saw though was that people weren't liking the Mako and so ripped it out.
 
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On the subject of quote unquote "listening to fans", they closed their official forums last October, ahead of Andromeda. The two competing arguments are that either BW wants to focus on social media platforms, or they want no official place for people to discuss their games following the ME3/"Retake ME" backlash. They don't want to censor negative feedback so they remove the ability to provide any feedback or discussion whatsoever. Also, no official channel for tech support or bug reporting. Maybe they used to listen, but they can no longer hear.

Another topic brought up elsewhere on the subject of Andromeda is the fear of how much, if any, SJW/progressive/political/ideological stuff it will have. DA2 was full of bisexuals, ME3 had "token gays" (plus bonus, retconned one) and DA:I was quite heavy handed and lore breaking with its handling of it all.

On the subject of the Mako, I think removing it was sad and replacing it with the jumpy thing for the minigames didn't improve matters. It could be a slog at times, but it added so much immersion. Getting out of it on a planet with an environmental hazard, navigating lava and hills to find a facility, it worked really well and gave the feeling of exploring these different worlds. It was a little bouncy and inconsistent on hills, but that could have been improved on. As for the combat, that might be part of it; the way XP was higher outside it than inside it and the bullet sponges at higher difficulties/levels meant play was often spending ages whittling a thing down, avoiding incoming fire, getting out to kill it, getting in, reversing, repairing, repeating. A chore.