I am against fat acceptance
- Thread starter hypothetical fact
- Start date
In a society where individuals are forced to support the weak (in this instance the US is doing better than the UK, not having an NHS - yet), fat people should be shunned and treated with as much derision as possible.
The UK government steals money from the wages of anyone with a job. Part of all this money goes toward the NHS, or National Health Service, which funds the free public hospitals, doctor's surgeries and so on. Fat people are susceptible to many conditions that would cause a drain on the NHS and thus on money.
Therefore, if you work in the UK and submit to the government's theft of your wages, feel free to treat fatties however you like. The same applies to those with conditions such as diabetes (which of course can be induced by the indulgences of fat people) or HIV, who use the NHS on a regular basis.
Since it's unlikely the government's tyranny is going to be overthrown any time soon, there's not much that can be done about the forced support of the weak. However, if I ruled the world and had any motives other than selfishness, there'd be a limit to how much of the NHS's resources anyone could use before being charged on the spot on top of their taxes. Maybe if you didn't use your "points" one year they could stack with the next year's and so on; forming a kind of insurance against debilitating injuries that would otherwise put you over one year's limit. This means hypochondriacs or those who can't stick out a cold/flu at home could still waste the time of NHS employees, but the government (me!) would be reimbursed for the trouble and the money used for other public interests and/or improving the NHS with incentives to study medicine for younger people, bringing more doctors/nurses/surgeons into the NHS, meaning people could be allocated more "points" per year.
The UK government steals money from the wages of anyone with a job. Part of all this money goes toward the NHS, or National Health Service, which funds the free public hospitals, doctor's surgeries and so on. Fat people are susceptible to many conditions that would cause a drain on the NHS and thus on money.
Therefore, if you work in the UK and submit to the government's theft of your wages, feel free to treat fatties however you like. The same applies to those with conditions such as diabetes (which of course can be induced by the indulgences of fat people) or HIV, who use the NHS on a regular basis.
Since it's unlikely the government's tyranny is going to be overthrown any time soon, there's not much that can be done about the forced support of the weak. However, if I ruled the world and had any motives other than selfishness, there'd be a limit to how much of the NHS's resources anyone could use before being charged on the spot on top of their taxes. Maybe if you didn't use your "points" one year they could stack with the next year's and so on; forming a kind of insurance against debilitating injuries that would otherwise put you over one year's limit. This means hypochondriacs or those who can't stick out a cold/flu at home could still waste the time of NHS employees, but the government (me!) would be reimbursed for the trouble and the money used for other public interests and/or improving the NHS with incentives to study medicine for younger people, bringing more doctors/nurses/surgeons into the NHS, meaning people could be allocated more "points" per year.
One mechanical arm, an ocular implant, a hard drive instead of a brain, hive mind and co-ordinated speech with your fellows, of course.Jaythulhu said:
I don't know when a human will eventually reach their full potential but I do know we should strive to become better in every way constantly, if you do not at least try to better yourself then your just another weight on humanity, Fat people are being lazy and are not trying to bettering themselves, we should not encourage laziness and fatness we should abhor itJaythulhu said:
What constitutes "better" is a matter of opinion. While some might consider living long, healthy lives in which they contribute to society a "good" life, some - like me - consider a short, happy, introverted life to be far more appealing.george144 said:
I do agree with this in some sense. Obesity is a huge problem and its a moderately easily solved problem for most. Think about how much we spend on operations and medication due to obesity and its only going to get worse as these people get older and things such as arthritis kick in. There are some instances were being quite fat or having a little flesh on you are unavoidable and I can see why: Just post pregnancy, far more important the mother spends time with her child for the first few month rather than exercise; elderly, your metabolism naturally slows down and exercise needs to be stepped back to avoid injury; Theres also those with a mental disorder or who are injured/ill.
The fact is weight loss is an extremely simple thing to do. Energy going in-energy being used=energy depleted. Use more energy than you eat and you loose weight. Extremely simple things like going for a walk or having one less spoonful of coleslaw etc makes all the difference.
In short, its horrific for the economy (especially in a state with free healthcare), its horrific for your health, its a horrific image to show children is ok to have and its majority completely avoidable
The fact is weight loss is an extremely simple thing to do. Energy going in-energy being used=energy depleted. Use more energy than you eat and you loose weight. Extremely simple things like going for a walk or having one less spoonful of coleslaw etc makes all the difference.
In short, its horrific for the economy (especially in a state with free healthcare), its horrific for your health, its a horrific image to show children is ok to have and its majority completely avoidable
Eating healthy food and getting regular exercise reduces will reduce the fat and increase the muscle in just about everyone. Therefore, being fat is not something that people can't control, and this is not a "this is just how I am, I can't change" situation.
I'm a bit overweight now. When I eat less and exercise, I lose weight and gain muscle. Quel suprise. I realize there are very few people that just can't lose the weight, but I think that's a VERY small group. I have some cousins and an uncle that are very overweight. There was a time when one of my cousins was going jogging regularly with my uncle (her dad) and eating salads. The shocking result? They both lost weight! These are people who might have been close to 100 pounds overweight, and they went down many clothing sizes in short order. And they didn't gain the weight back until they abandoned their program and went back to laying around the house eating junk food.
If I'm overweight, it's entirely because of me. It's a choice I've made. I could be exercising right now, but I'm not. Why? Because I chose not to. It's that simple, and it's that simple for almost every person on earth.
I'm a bit overweight now. When I eat less and exercise, I lose weight and gain muscle. Quel suprise. I realize there are very few people that just can't lose the weight, but I think that's a VERY small group. I have some cousins and an uncle that are very overweight. There was a time when one of my cousins was going jogging regularly with my uncle (her dad) and eating salads. The shocking result? They both lost weight! These are people who might have been close to 100 pounds overweight, and they went down many clothing sizes in short order. And they didn't gain the weight back until they abandoned their program and went back to laying around the house eating junk food.
If I'm overweight, it's entirely because of me. It's a choice I've made. I could be exercising right now, but I'm not. Why? Because I chose not to. It's that simple, and it's that simple for almost every person on earth.
KaZZaP said:
HAHAHA! You make it sound like its a viral outbrak, but with fat people instead of zombies!
Fair call! That's really the only level I was willing to engage the subject on so I can't add much more. I feel there is reason to believe existing law is - or should be made - sufficient. I worry that special legislation might lead to circumstances of people who do not control their weight well seeking to excuse themselves from the effort, even at the expense of others.Cheeze_Pavilion said:
Just look at the boomers in left 4 dead, its proof that we can only survive a zombie apocalypse if all the fat people lose weight, oh and kill anyone wearing a hoody as well as chav zombies can apparently jump quite farRetiarySword said:
Waitamuinute....orifice said:
Who said anything about special treatment?
I thought the idea was discrimination.
Hahaha, yeah, bring on the cybernetics. I wholeheartedly agree with ya there.Molikroth said:
Can't say I agree with all that. Our "potential", as you put it, is open to interpretation. There are many who would say that we can't be more than what we are. Not all fat people are lazy, either. When I was at my biggest (167kg), I was working in an 8am-6pm job that required me to spend my entire day walking around outdoors in 40+ degree celcius heat. What kept me fat was that after a day of work I was far too tired to shop or cook, and so I ate maccas and pizzas for every meal.george144 said:
I didn't have the time to cook or shop, and being on medication for an unrelated illness didn't help (one of its chief side-effects was the significant slowing of the metabolism). Sure, there's more I could have done, but at the time I was just too stuffed, and once you get into a bad cycle, it's hard to get out of.
I may have misrepresented myself earlier. I think that everyone is entitled to help, but what that help is should be dependant on the underlying causes. If you have a genuine medical issue, you should be entitled to medical help. If you're stuck in a cycle of poor diet and lack of exercise due to upbringing, hectic work/lifestyle then you should be given counselling and education so you have the tools and the know-how to eat right and lose weight. Society may not owe fat people anything (i certainly don't believe it does. For the majority, it's either a choice or lack of other options/knowledge), but that doesn't mean we should completely abandon them.
To be fair, ANY form of law which forces people to be tolerant of other people is morally wrong. Because of the laws around gender, race, weight etc. an average weight white male has a large responsibility to not do or say anything that may offend someone of the aforementioned list.
Tolerance shouldn't be something that is forced upon people in ANY situation. Then you can't have awesome jokes like "What do you call an all black abortion clinic? Crime stoppers."
Now, if you are black and were offended by that, it's really your problem. You ASSUME I'm instantly against all black people, despite the fact the joke was used to
a) Make a point and
b) Be funny
The stereotypical view is that a lot of crime is performed by black people, and statistically this may or may not be true. Until I've been provided with further evidence, I'll stick to my belief that black people are not as crime committing as many people may think.
Tolerance laws around race are understandable, but still wrong. They do however prevent proper racial comments designed to be offensive, which is an upside to such law.
Coming back on topic...
"What do you call a fat guy on a caving expedition? Stuck."
Same rules apply to this one. But for crying out loud, we're talking whether someone is fat or not. Laws to force us to be tolerant is bad enough, but of something which many people can solve with a steady diet and daily exercise?
It's going off at a bit of a tangent here, but it's why I can't stand it when fat women using the abbreviation BBW for themselves, which for those who don't know stands for Big Beautiful Woman. Firstly, the term 'beautiful' is subjective, it depends on the tastes of the person who is viewing the woman. Secondly, I'm of the opinion that fat women who try to flaunt their bodies off as beautiful is repulsive, and should incite laws needed to allow skinny women to also describe themselves as beautiful, whether they are or not to the eyes of all. See? Discrimination works both ways. It's why laws forcing people to be tolerant are in themselves intolerant to those it does NOT include.
Tolerance is something that comes socially. Laws to make people do so are just one of the many flawed laws which force people to behave in a 'socially accepted' manor. Even though all it does is make things for average weight white men more difficult, because half of what they say could be taken as fucking hate crimes.
Tolerance shouldn't be something that is forced upon people in ANY situation. Then you can't have awesome jokes like "What do you call an all black abortion clinic? Crime stoppers."
Now, if you are black and were offended by that, it's really your problem. You ASSUME I'm instantly against all black people, despite the fact the joke was used to
a) Make a point and
b) Be funny
The stereotypical view is that a lot of crime is performed by black people, and statistically this may or may not be true. Until I've been provided with further evidence, I'll stick to my belief that black people are not as crime committing as many people may think.
Tolerance laws around race are understandable, but still wrong. They do however prevent proper racial comments designed to be offensive, which is an upside to such law.
Coming back on topic...
"What do you call a fat guy on a caving expedition? Stuck."
Same rules apply to this one. But for crying out loud, we're talking whether someone is fat or not. Laws to force us to be tolerant is bad enough, but of something which many people can solve with a steady diet and daily exercise?
It's going off at a bit of a tangent here, but it's why I can't stand it when fat women using the abbreviation BBW for themselves, which for those who don't know stands for Big Beautiful Woman. Firstly, the term 'beautiful' is subjective, it depends on the tastes of the person who is viewing the woman. Secondly, I'm of the opinion that fat women who try to flaunt their bodies off as beautiful is repulsive, and should incite laws needed to allow skinny women to also describe themselves as beautiful, whether they are or not to the eyes of all. See? Discrimination works both ways. It's why laws forcing people to be tolerant are in themselves intolerant to those it does NOT include.
Tolerance is something that comes socially. Laws to make people do so are just one of the many flawed laws which force people to behave in a 'socially accepted' manor. Even though all it does is make things for average weight white men more difficult, because half of what they say could be taken as fucking hate crimes.
I can't believe this thread. I just... can't believe it. Striving for physical perfection? Overweight people should be shunned? I weigh 150 pounds, making me overweight for my height of 5'8". Does that make me fat? Am I to be shunned, too?
So much for the all of the Escapist being a haven of intelligent, open-minded individuals- this thread disgusts me.
So much for the all of the Escapist being a haven of intelligent, open-minded individuals- this thread disgusts me.
Mkb, surely if the thread disgusts you that makes you just as closed minded as anyone in it? Some of the points in this thread are quite stupid, physical perfect etc but there are others which pose a serious social question as to what image we should be telling children is ok to have and what is counted as health or otherwise, its extremely important to clearly show all of this and I, for one, believe that showing children that being fat is ok is morally wrong.
Also, weight and fatness arent attributed, I weight 11 st 9 and Im 5ft 10, its not because Im fat, most of its muscle since Ido alot of exercise and climb. Obesity really is dependent upon % body fat.
Also, weight and fatness arent attributed, I weight 11 st 9 and Im 5ft 10, its not because Im fat, most of its muscle since Ido alot of exercise and climb. Obesity really is dependent upon % body fat.
And I thought that this thread was about proposed fat discrimination laws. And the problem with discrimination laws is that they are usually used as a stick to beat people with, by militant loonies. And then comes the 'positive' descrimination policies that accompany said laws. Positive discrimination is a lie, discrimination is discrimination. And positive discrimination amounts to special treatment.Jimmyjames said:
Well, I'd say it's societal. It's common knowledge that obesity is linked to the impoverished and the working class. The people who lack the education about the unhealthy habits, and the means to change it. I think (being a commie europeanJaythulhu said:
) that it's the governments responsibility to break the social heritage through a proper educational system, and legislation/institutions that will help counter the problem.Or fat people could realise themselves that it's a POSSIBLE threat to their health, depending on how fat they may or may not be, and make their own decision on whether they will try to reduce their weight or not instead of allowing the government to place more unnecessary dictatorial legislation that forces people to do things.Uskis said:Well, I'd say it's societal. It's common knowledge that obesity is linked to the impoverished and the working class. The people who lack the education about the unhealthy habits, and the means to change it. I think (being a commie european
Hahahahaha. I agree with ya 98%. How about both a societal and familial responsibility? Governments/society in general should (i really hate that word, but that's a topic for another thread) be responsible for educating people as to what is a healthy and what is an unhealthy eating regime, but it should be up to each individual family to ensure they are complying?Uskis said:Well, I'd say it's societal. It's common knowledge that obesity is linked to the impoverished and the working class. The people who lack the education about the unhealthy habits, and the means to change it. I think (being a commie europeanJaythulhu said:
Just as I don't believe that it is my responsibility to ensure that someone else's offspring is being protected from all the dirty pictures on the internet, I do not believe that it is my responsibility to make sure my neighbours aren't eating big macs and hotdogs for each meal.
So, Ive skimmed through most of the comments.. i will leave it at that.
First of all, the health risks of being overweight (not morbidly obese) and still doing physical activity are smaller than for people that are underweight. Being thin = healthy. Thats not really true, and the notion needs to be corrected. How much money do society spend every year on treating young people with eating disorders?
"Why cant they just eat like normal people?!". Well, maybe because they have emotional and psychological issues relating to food. Discipline has nothing to do with it, discipline is going to school or work even though people might treat you like shit, people you wanna date turn you down etcetera.
Moving on.. We react to stimuli in different ways, thats why alcoholism is partly genetic. The same way we realease different amount of dopamine in our brains when we eat something sweet or fat. So, some fat people react to food in a much different way than you do. In some cases you can equate this to being a drugaddict. Addicted to a drug thats in every store in every city in the world. You think drug addicts make much progress if everytime they bought lunch they had option of ordering some crack with their waffles?! would you?
And to finish of, look I get that you dont want your money to go to people that you percieve as being lazy. But, alot of these people are trying to change.. but they are trying out of the wrong reasons. They are being ridiculed daily, we all know that. When you change a behaviour through fear, submission, hate, guilt etcetera you wont get very stable results. Thats what the science of cognitive behaviour therapy states. it is better if a change in behaviour comes from positive emotions of health, being able to participate in more activities and so on, and thats not going to happen very likely if WE keep on treating fat people the way we are. And if we continue treating them like that, the chances of them changing go down. So, my guess is that the money spent on overweight people is acctually going to save you money in the long run. You cant really equate widening doors to the cost of diabetes, arthrosis, and cancer (google it)
First of all, the health risks of being overweight (not morbidly obese) and still doing physical activity are smaller than for people that are underweight. Being thin = healthy. Thats not really true, and the notion needs to be corrected. How much money do society spend every year on treating young people with eating disorders?
"Why cant they just eat like normal people?!". Well, maybe because they have emotional and psychological issues relating to food. Discipline has nothing to do with it, discipline is going to school or work even though people might treat you like shit, people you wanna date turn you down etcetera.
Moving on.. We react to stimuli in different ways, thats why alcoholism is partly genetic. The same way we realease different amount of dopamine in our brains when we eat something sweet or fat. So, some fat people react to food in a much different way than you do. In some cases you can equate this to being a drugaddict. Addicted to a drug thats in every store in every city in the world. You think drug addicts make much progress if everytime they bought lunch they had option of ordering some crack with their waffles?! would you?
And to finish of, look I get that you dont want your money to go to people that you percieve as being lazy. But, alot of these people are trying to change.. but they are trying out of the wrong reasons. They are being ridiculed daily, we all know that. When you change a behaviour through fear, submission, hate, guilt etcetera you wont get very stable results. Thats what the science of cognitive behaviour therapy states. it is better if a change in behaviour comes from positive emotions of health, being able to participate in more activities and so on, and thats not going to happen very likely if WE keep on treating fat people the way we are. And if we continue treating them like that, the chances of them changing go down. So, my guess is that the money spent on overweight people is acctually going to save you money in the long run. You cant really equate widening doors to the cost of diabetes, arthrosis, and cancer (google it)
That's bullcrap. There is no 'fat' gene. There are genes that cause slower metabolism which means that you put weight on quicker, but that does not mean everyone with it will be overweight. Common sense, if I had a slower metabolism, I'd eat less and exercise more. It just takes more willpower and possibly medical help. But at the end of the day, the blame lies with the person if they can't lose weight. If they don't want to, then fine, but if they do want to but don't, they should either admit they have a problem with willpower and seek help, or stop moaning that they are genetically fat, because they aren't, they are only fat because they are eating too much and not exercising enough.hypothetical fact said: