I am feeling alienated and offended by Bioware

[JuryNelson]

It is done all the time but someone from a Nation that has no real standing "MODERN" cultural icon in a medium we are pioneers in, the lack of said national support and pride in the industry makes every statement crippling rather than dismissable

Well, there's your problem.

I think to a certain extent, every nation is having this problem. What does a Canadian look like? What kinds of things might a Canadian do differently than an American? Than an Indian? Than a German?

If a game was to come out that was quintessentially Canadian, what sorts of values would it even have? What would its protagonist say and do to mark him or her as Canadian? If Canada was to become the dominant world power in some potential fictional future, how would that world be different from if Canada was annexed by the United States?

I get that it's a rant, and you don't have to provide the counterexample to a worldview you don't agree with, so I'm totally with you there. But Canada is actually a SUPER interesting case of post-modern nationhood. Canada's history (from what I know and have researched) is incredibly interesting and complicated, especially as concerns a shared national history. There's a lot of conflict, a lot of failure or refusal to agree, and I'm pretty sure that Montreal is the most ethnically diverse/segregated city in the world.


Canada is interesting, but very hard to explain to people. I think that's why it's easier to just say "America Everything." Canada is a powerhouse of videogames (Radical in Vancouver, my favorite Ubisoft in Montreal? These aren't just boutiques is my point) but the demand is all in the United States and Europe. And the culture is so much easier to sort of sum up. And people will knee-jerk to make fun of Canada if they start to stand up and ask to be looked at.

What you need is a Stompin' Tom of videogames is what you need. I'd sneak across the border for a game like that.

I get the impression you oppose or at least disagree with my point of view and I am ok with that because you understand where I am going with it. When you say what makes a Canadian so different from the States? Because of the State's close proximity to Canada and possesing a much stronger presence. Its culture dominates our own and because of this we are not very different. Something that is sad to see since you can go back 30-40 years and see something described only as alien to the current generation.

Oh, no no no. I totally agree with your point (I think). I'm saying that I, and I assume most people outside of Canada, don't know what Canadian cultural identity is. So it gets glossed over a lot.

The motivation to just sell more shit overrides national pride, but if we're supposed to get serious about video games being art, they can't be allowed to get away with this.

 

[onikaze26]

no I'm w/ the op here.
speaking as a Canadian here. If the decided to blow us up, or overrun us w/ zombies, or rejoin with Britain then that would be one thing but as it is us Canadians, we already fight being overshadowed by the US way to much. i mean most of the world sees us as Americans, when traveling outside of the country I usually need to correct people that i am not American, hell during our own voting campaigns i saw more about American politics then our own (btw they really need to start talking about their own stances on things instead of ripping down everyone else's, seriously.) and this coming from a Canadian company is like saying we have no culture at all.

 

[JuryNelson]

Any Finnish game (that tries to reach international success, or success at all) most probably has an American protagonist.

Big deal. It's fictional.

But I bet there are Finnish films about Finnish people having Finnish problems and solving them with Finnish solutions while speaking Finnish.

Are video games art, or are they fiction or are they products? How seriously you take the medium as an art form should be right up there with how much you expect them to reflect or impact culture.

 

[Saulkar]

*Crikey, you type a lot*

Well, it's not just Canada you know. America pokes fun at Mexico, England, France, Asia as a whole... essentially, America is one big bully! A very, very fat bully.

Feel free to make a joke about my accent now Americans, it's only fair.

I do not want to make fun of the States. I want Canada to acknowledge itself. Not to shove it down people's throats, just acknowledge it exists.

 

[JuryNelson]

Could you provide a TL;DR version. I don't want to think you are just whining about something pointless.

Here:

I am offended yes but it was not intended to offend Canada thus I can ignore it. It is a story element, something I acknowledged. But when your own industry ignores you, it hurts. That is the point.

BioWare in specific and the Canadian games industry in general seems to be not be taking Canada seriously as a nation.

 

[Red Right Hand]

I can't say I feel any national pride about my country (I'm not a huge fan of England) so getting offended over the lack of a patriotic character seems a bit alien to me (you think I really connect with the vast number of American protaganists dealing with stereotypical British villains out there?).

I have had several cases where I've noticed that my games were Canadian in origin and have also been suprised that they were usually excellent games (Dawn of War: Dark Crusade, Mass Effect and Farcry 2 to name just a few, in fact, the only bad Canadian game that sticks in my mind is Too Human).

I really don't think it's that big an issue (I can't actually think of any British or Irish developers).

Rockstar North, the developers that designed the Grand Theft Auto games, is Scottish I believe, as well as Lionhead studios. There are actually quite a lot of British developers. Not sure about Irish though.

 

[Arehexes]

Or since it's a video game get over it. It's sad when people get their pants in a knot over a history setting in a video game.

 

[JuryNelson]

I don't see what the big deal is. So your upset that Canadian developers don't make enough Canadian protagonists?
There are better things to be upset by then that.

There are better things to be upset by than ANYTHING.

I don't see what the big deal is. So you're confused why OP is upset that Canadian developers don't make enough Canadian protagonists?

There are better things to be confused by than that.

Not really confused by why he is upset. Just why this is an issue for him to begin with. Its a fictional story for a video game, is it really worth getting upset for?

It's an issue because if an entire generation of American films started taking place in a future where America had been annexed by Mexico, THAT would be an issue.

It's an issue because if you think of video games as an art, then they have to be held to a higher standard. Art shouldn't be allowed to get away with shit like this.

But if you don't think of video games as art, if you think of them as entertainment and commerce, then yeah. No problem. Move along. But then, you know. The government can regulate content and sale of entertainment.

 

[FirstOne617]

I think that since America is still perceived as being the larger dominant power, it's a lot easier to imagine them spreading their influence throughout North America. No offense meant to Canadians, but the phrase "Canada annexed the rest of North America" is probably one that would incite a double-take at the very least. And the human society in Mass Effect is pretty much post-national, since we've all united to fight off the turians/represent ourselves to the rest of the galaxy. While I understand your frustration, I think it was merely backstory leading up to the unification of the human race as a whole, sort of a stepping off point.

 

[Saulkar]

It is done all the time but someone from a Nation that has no real standing "MODERN" cultural icon in a medium we are pioneers in, the lack of said national support and pride in the industry makes every statement crippling rather than dismissable

Well, there's your problem.

I think to a certain extent, every nation is having this problem. What does a Canadian look like? What kinds of things might a Canadian do differently than an American? Than an Indian? Than a German?

If a game was to come out that was quintessentially Canadian, what sorts of values would it even have? What would its protagonist say and do to mark him or her as Canadian? If Canada was to become the dominant world power in some potential fictional future, how would that world be different from if Canada was annexed by the United States?

I get that it's a rant, and you don't have to provide the counterexample to a worldview you don't agree with, so I'm totally with you there. But Canada is actually a SUPER interesting case of post-modern nationhood. Canada's history (from what I know and have researched) is incredibly interesting and complicated, especially as concerns a shared national history. There's a lot of conflict, a lot of failure or refusal to agree, and I'm pretty sure that Montreal is the most ethnically diverse/segregated city in the world.


Canada is interesting, but very hard to explain to people. I think that's why it's easier to just say "America Everything." Canada is a powerhouse of videogames (Radical in Vancouver, my favorite Ubisoft in Montreal? These aren't just boutiques is my point) but the demand is all in the United States and Europe. And the culture is so much easier to sort of sum up. And people will knee-jerk to make fun of Canada if they start to stand up and ask to be looked at.

What you need is a Stompin' Tom of videogames is what you need. I'd sneak across the border for a game like that.

I get the impression you oppose or at least disagree with my point of view and I am ok with that because you understand where I am going with it. When you say what makes a Canadian so different from the States? Because of the State's close proximity to Canada and possesing a much stronger presence. Its culture dominates our own and because of this we are not very different. Something that is sad to see since you can go back 30-40 years and see something described only as alien to the current generation.

Oh, no no no. I totally agree with your point (I think). I'm saying that I, and I assume most people outside of Canada, don't know what Canadian cultural identity is. So it gets glossed over a lot.

The motivation to just sell more shit overrides national pride, but if we're supposed to get serious about video games being art, they can't be allowed to get away with this.

That does make sense but would quietly making a character Canadian without advertising it really be that bad, say a dialogue option to tell somebody where you were born? Canadians tend to be more peaceful and rugged than people from the States, not univerasal but we have a lot more backdoor than they do. This tends to make us more quiet and polite while simultaneously holding back the punch for when it is actually needed. Things are approached slowly but we acknowledge the need for spontaneous action. When we defeat someone, we call it end and do not push it, we only push it when we know a threat is still present and a temporary defeat or a much prefered negotiation with appeasement out of the word will not work. Are you Canadian?

 

[sir.rutthed]

Ya dude, I think you're overreacting a bit. There are rumors of plans to merge Canada and Mexico with the US, and I think Bioware was just building off that for that bit of "realistic conspiracy". Personally I wouldn't mind Canada joining with us. You guys are pretty cool. You bring the donuts and the Crown Royal, we'll bring the hot wings and Sam Adams, and we'll party it up and make those no good Mexicans wish they shared a common cultural heritage with us!

 

[Fetzenfisch]

Its an RPG and RPG's are engines powered by stereotypes and clichés, there are ownly 7 stories to tell and they may be put into a new outward appearance now and then, but the core stays the same.
In a story you only have so much time to tell, so it is important to focus on the parts you think are the most important to carry the ideas you want to be defined clearest.
So you have to give the recipients things they know or can relate to.
There are the "they are like knights with magic, but their swords are made of lasers and the magic is called force" ways to dress up known fantasy characters
and there are the "well its like the Federation/Commonwealth/Terran Empire/United Earth thing you kmow from this and that movie/game/book" ways to shortly establish institutions without "wasting" too much time until the audience will accept it.
And the Majority of the people will just check that point, nod and read/watch on without quesitioning because they know this story already in many different ways.
Try to establish a fictive world under command of Swasiland, good luck and i hope you brought some time and good ideas, you'll need them.
Its the same reason why more or less all those games use the old traditional fantasy races and classes. Sometimes they look a little different, but the archetypes are mostly there.
For their entertainment people usually only want new things they already know.
Trying to be too innovative is like trying to make a scientificly correct and realistic SCI-FI movie.
Itll be a great succes if

Spoiler: this guy pays 12Mio$ to see it

 

[Saulkar]

no I'm w/ the op here.
speaking as a Canadian here. If the decided to blow us up, or overrun us w/ zombies, or rejoin with Britain then that would be one thing but as it is us Canadians, we already fight being overshadowed by the US way to much. i mean most of the world sees us as Americans, when traveling outside of the country I usually need to correct people that i am not American, hell during our own voting campaigns i saw more about American politics then our own (btw they really need to start talking about their own stances on things instead of ripping down everyone else's, seriously.) and this coming from a Canadian company is like saying we have no culture at all.

A fight that should not happen. The number one thing to just end it is for Canadians to simply acknowledge that we are, and to start showing it. Not shove it in peoples faces, just show amongst ourselves, let people know when they ask, and say we do not take what others through at us. We have our own identity.

 

[Blind Sight]

What say you fellow Canadian Gamers? This not a sensitivity issue but rather a self cultural acknowledgement issue alone.

Dude, just because you're part of a political confederacy it doesn't mean your culture is instantly merged, they obviously wrote that fake history based off of actual economic and political treaties between the United States, Mexico, and Canada, like NAFTA. The 'Systems Alliance' is basically all the Western countries of the world getting together to use the third world as a cash candy jar. If anything, the Systems Alliance is more a commentary on Grammsci's world systems theory and globalization rather then anything else. Bioware's Alliance is a group that focuses on being human for acceptance, rather then nationality, which I prefer to blind nationalism anyway. Peter Watts, a Canadian science fiction writer, made all of North America into a region called NamPac in his books, but that's just cause it's the most logical step now that cosmopolitianism and neoliberal ideals are so common in our society. Sorry, but the nation-state really is starting to mean something different, and nationalism just doesn't cut it anymore in the globalized system. I'd suggest checking out a few of Milton Friedman's books to show how fundamentally different a nationstate is represented in a globalized rather then realist political realm.

In fiction, burn Canada to the ground, nuke it, wipe it off the face of the earth, I don't care, I'm not sensitive enough to get worked up over it even though I do like my country, I just really don't care if it's 'represented correctly' in popular culture. If your country wants to impress, you shouldn't make up fictional stories to praise it, the country needs to do something effective in reality.

 

[dtfyvugbhjnk]

Patriotism (together with racism, nazism, religion & other human ego identity flaws) and the future don't go hand in hand buddy. I (amongst others) am one off those who are actively making sure of that, because only a nobody is somebody who can get along with everybody.

 

[Undead Dragon King]

Ah well, it's impossible to please everyone.

I know that you love your country, and that BioWare is one of Canada's great cultural inputs, but you shouldn't get worked up about it now. If NAFTA goes a few steps further and full annexation is achieved a-la Mass Effect, then we can have this conversation.

 

[garfoldsomeoneelse]

"Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind."
-Albert Einstein

OP, I've played tons of games where America gets the shit kicked out of it. Never cared. If it was annexed by Mexico, I still wouldn't care. At all. Do you know why most people think Americans are obnoxious? Because they have a tendency to feel superior just because they were born here; it doesn't look good on them, and it doesn't look good on you. It might be time to stop identifying so much with the slab of land you were born on, and start working on an individualistic point of view, because as it stands, you seem like the type of person that, if born in a southern American state, would petition the government to let you fly the rebel flag next to the interestate.

By the way, it probably has a lot to do with this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NAFTA_superhighway
If you think you're mad now, just wait until it actually happens.

 

[spartan231490]

This is more of a rant to get it off my chest and hopefully make me feel better so bear with me.

(Keyword:Modern-A sign that one continues to this day to inovate and create, to keep up to date with the standing culture's expectations)

A couple days ago I was reading the Mass Effect wiki http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/The_Master_Thief%3A_Kasumi%27s_Secrets when I stumbled upon something that most people would dismiss as pure fantasy and move on yet it felt like a punch to the gut for me. What was it? Canada and Mexico had been annexed into the United States of North America.

Oh no not another whiner, it is not even real, get over it, suck it up butter cup!

CANN IT! and let me explain why this bugs me so much. Since the dawn of time people have poked fun and made jokes about other people's nations. Something that is completely understandable but after a while it starts to hurt through either ignorance or design. A nation is one's birthplace, their cultural center, their sense of home, the image they as a group or individual project to the world, their identity itself! Thus one almost always feels the need to defend it because people sense making fun of the nation is making also not only fun of you but what you are and who you are as a group and an individual. To lose that figurative backbone would be devistating to the majority.

In the case of the States ridiculing, making fun of, or being indifferent to Canada you generally are not supposed to take it seriously as it is in most but not all cases done in jest. We here in Canada do it all the time so it goes both ways, but I am going to explain where the problem lies. Because the States have a vastly more influential media and cultural backing than Canada, anything that comes out of the States tends to have more of an impact on our own culture.

Think of every joke towards Canada from the States as a poke, harmless and forgetable. But if you are repeatedly poked in the same area it starts to bug you then eventually climaxes in anger, despite that in most cases that was never the intent, they just did not know when to stop. The only solution is to walk away. Problem Solved. But...

Bioware being a Canadian videogame developer I could not help but feel a sense of pride from their artistic accomplishments they were sending out to the world and Canada as well. Mass Effect felt like a real stepping stone in establishing a image of a good Canadian game that quite possibly had a Canadian as a protagonist and thus represented Canada(depending on what upbringing you chose). "Almost" all games that come out (NOT INCLUDING SPORTS GAMES) of Canada have someone from the States as the protagonist. This matters how? Remember what I said of ones nation being the image and identity that represents you as an individual or group. Thus by others intentially having ignored this results in a sense of "My culture does not matter enough for others, even fellow Canadians to care". Thus by outright removing Canada from the picture, I feel it as another outright careless throw away to Canadian audiences who are looking for a real, modern Canadian cultural videogame icon that our own developers are depriving us of. This was clearly not the intent, a writer may blow up a country they have just read about that morning in a book they are writing that evening and may offend somebody from that nation, but it cannot be helped.

It is done all the time but someone from a Nation that has no real standing "MODERN" cultural icon in a medium we are pioneers in, the lack of said national support and pride in the industry makes every statement crippling rather than dismissable, ie. A Candian video game writer blowing up Canada compared to a writer from the States blowing up the U.S. We lack the integrity because of our own money based refusal to represent our own nation starting with and resulting in a weak sense of pride and cultural identity in the industry. One might argue that their country say Norway has never been featured in any recent high profile media, but you most certainly have closely held modern cultural icons within the nation itself that many can feel proud of. Even if it is not video game based because it can rival that, i.e. Devastatingly powerful Heavy Metal Scene.

That is why it hurt so much coming from a Canadian Developer where it could have been dismissed coming from a foriegn one. It ignored its own nation, something all other Canadian videogame developers do.

What say you fellow Canadian Gamers? This not a sensitivity issue but rather a self cultural acknowledgement issue alone.

P.S. I did not forget money is a key factor, but that excuse can only hold for so long.

EDIT: I guess only a couple of people saw what I was saying and gave a thoughtful comment in oposition or agreement. The rest are just too dismissive to the topic to take seriously. Thankyou for the comments but I did not get out of this what I hoped for.

Why were u so surprised that mass effect universe has north america as one country, i would be extrememly surprised if that didn't happen eventually. It's the next logical step up from NAFTA.