I am thinking about joining the military

[Fox12]

Don't do it.
Being a member of the military, at any level (including non-combat) is a immoral action as you voluntarily are joining, aiding and assisting a institution that is responsible for thousands of deaths of innocent civilians in the middle east.
My advice has nothing to do with the economics of the situation, I am just pointing out the moral implications of joining the army.

Joining the military is not an immoral action in itself. The death of civilians falls on the shoulders of Obama and Bush, and on the Neoconservatives and Chicken-hawks in congress. I've met many soldiers, some of whom committed suicide, and I disagree with the idea that all soldiers are immoral (if that is what you're implying). The soldiers I've met were some of the most well educated and articulate individuals I've ever met. That said, I do agree with you about the stupidity of the conflicts in the middle east. They are senseless, expensive, and the civilian casualty rates from drone attacks are far too high.

As for OP, I would hesitate to join the military. I know a lot of people who consider joining the military because they feel their life has no direction. It worked for some of them, and not for others. However, if you're half hearted about it, don't bother. You'll be miserable and unable to get out. Instead, invest time and effort into trying to find another occupation, perhaps in the security guard field. If you're religious, then pray, and if you're not, then continue to seek the help and support of those around you. But whatever you do, don't rush into a decision if you're hesitant about a major commitment.

 

[Dunesen]

A lot of people have already responded, but I wanted to throw my two cents in because I'm speaking from experience, not from what I've seen in movies or heard about from other people. ALL THE STUFF I SAY HERE IS FROM MY OWN EXPERIENCES IN THE ARMY. YOUR EXPERIENCES MIGHT HAVE BEEN DIFFERENT, I UNDERSTAND THIS:

First off, I want to affirm what MinionJoe said above: recruiters have quotas to meet and they will say whatever they need to in order to get you to sign up. They'll offer you whatever job you want, they'll make all sorts of promises they can't back up. Be skeptical when dealing with them, and if possible know what job (MOS) you want and don't sign unless it's in your contract (and even then, cross your fingers). And since you're motivated by money, let me tell you that different jobs have different bonuses attached to them; my MOS was 25U and by entering as an E3 I got a $16,000 bonus. BUT THIS WAS IN 2007, WHEN RECRUITMENT LEVELS WERE LOW! Recruitment is not a major issue right now because we're not in Iraq (technically) and we're close to exiting Afghanistan. The military doesn't need more soldiers, so they don't need to incentivize enlistment.

Second, DO NOT DO THIS FOR MONEY! The military is not a jackpot, it is not a gold mine. All that money America spends on defense? It's not going to the paychecks of the enlisted rank-and-file. When I enlisted I was working 40 hours a week at Kinko's, making 10 dollars an hour starting and close to 11 after my first year there (I was living in San Francisco, however, so it's not like I was getting ready to buy a house). When I enlisted, I was making roughly the same amount of money. Only I wasn't working 40 hours a week; I have no clue where that poster who said "It's basically just an 8 to 5 job" was coming from, but they're dead wrong.

For starters, there's PT. Every weekday morning you need to be at formation at 6AM (at my base, at least) for the flag raising and physical training. Then in the office at 9 and through to 5, with lunch. But then there's training exercises, where you can be out in the field for a week or two running exercises and sleeping in tents, away from home. Or there's staff duty, where you get to spend 24 hours sitting at a desk, answering the phone. Yes, you get the 24 hours immediately after that off from duty, but sucks to be you if you're scheduled on Friday or Saturday. And if you want a vacation it's not as simple as filing some paperwork. You need to get your time off request approved by your commander. Same thing with sick days; you can't just call in when you're feeling like s**t. You need to get a medic to sign off that yes, you are in fact sick. It's part of the whole 'You need approval for everything' mindset.

And then there's the big one: deployments.

I deployed once, to Iraq, and let me maybe relieve you of some preconceptions you might have. For one, not every soldier is a combat troop going out on patrols and kicking in doors. I was what is known as a 'Fobbit.' I stayed on the base my unit was stationed at the entire year, going outside the wire a grand total of three (3) times, and not once did I ever have to fire my weapon or was I fired upon. For context, this was 2008.

It still sucked being in Baghdad, away from home, with shitty internet service. But I was fortunate (relatively) that my FOB had showers, toilets, a PX, a swimming pool, internet access, and regular mail service. And we were sleeping in actual buildings (the former Iraqi Ministry of Intelligence, if I remember correctly), on beds with mattresses. If we were to go into Iran or Syria in the near future (never mind the actual probability of this) and you're part of the initial forces you won't have it so lucky. MREs (see if you can buy a few from a military surplus store to get an idea of what they're like), no showers, bare cots, tents, no internet. How well can you get by without that stuff? Just take a moment to think about it.

Personally, I wish I had joined the Navy. I have an affinity for the ocean (being landlocked my entire enlistment was a problem I did not foresee when I enlisted) and I could have traveled and seen more of the world than just Baghdad. And I wish I had tried to get a commission instead of going into the enlisted ranks because with my college degree (which was being finalized when I enlisted) and my test scores (99 ASVAB, 138 GT) that was apparently an option. Not one my recruiter told me, because as I said above, they don't see you as a person.

Or actually, I wish I had never enlisted, because if I had stayed at Kinko's I would be making far more now than I actually am, working retail because the economy sucks and I didn't pick up any skills or special training in the military that are applicable in the civilian world.

But that's my experience.

And I guess I should say something about the psychological side of it. Yeah, drill sergeants tear you down and treat you like s**t. No surprise there. But once you get out and get to your duty station, it's a crap shoot. Some people are chill, some people are uptight, some people will rub you the wrong way and some people you'll be able to hang with. Like all work environments it's a mix, only here you can't quit if you get fed up.

I'd like to say I matured during my enlistment, but this was in my mid-to-late 20's, so it could have just been that. The 18-20 year olds weren't transformed from lazy, shiftless teens into square-jawed men. There were still plenty of immature, malingering jackasses everywhere.

So that's my experience. Based on what you've said, OP, I would say this is not for you. It wasn't really for me, but at least I wasn't trying to pay off any debts with it, so my disappointment wasn't as bad as I expect yours would be. I wish you luck finding a better solution to your debt, but I have to say don't expect a single lucky break to fix everything. As much as it suck, you'll probably have to be chipping away at this for years to come. Sorry.

 

[Dunesen]

Don't do it.
Being a member of the military, at any level (including non-combat) is a immoral action as you voluntarily are joining, aiding and assisting a institution that is responsible for thousands of deaths of innocent civilians in the middle east.
My advice has nothing to do with the economics of the situation, I am just pointing out the moral implications of joining the army.

Joining the military is not an immoral action in itself. The death of civilians falls on the shoulders of Obama and Bush, and on the Neoconservatives and Chicken-hawks in congress. I've met many soldiers, some of whom committed suicide, and I disagree with the idea that all soldiers are immoral (if that is what you're implying). The soldiers I've met were some of the most well educated and articulate individuals I've ever met. That said, I do agree with you about the stupidity of the conflicts in the middle east. They are senseless, expensive, and the civilian casualty rates from drone attacks are far too high.

If you enlist during a war you are taking on the chance of being deployed, of being put in a situation where you might endanger or even kill civilians. It was something I had to grapple with when I considered enlisting at the dawn of the Iraq 'surge,' and at basic training I had a crisis of conscience about the fact that I might have to kill people. There was no clear solution to this, but being reminded that my MOS was not a combat position and that I would, in all likelihood, just be spending any deployment on a base, never interacting with the locals, help put me at ease somewhat.

Somewhat. I was never fully able to reconcile that even though I was never involved in actual combat, I had enlisted during a war knowing it might be a possibility. In other words, if you enlist you are agreeing to be the arm (or gun, rather) of the politicians who decide to send you to war.

 

[Fox12]

Don't do it.
Being a member of the military, at any level (including non-combat) is a immoral action as you voluntarily are joining, aiding and assisting a institution that is responsible for thousands of deaths of innocent civilians in the middle east.
My advice has nothing to do with the economics of the situation, I am just pointing out the moral implications of joining the army.

Joining the military is not an immoral action in itself. The death of civilians falls on the shoulders of Obama and Bush, and on the Neoconservatives and Chicken-hawks in congress. I've met many soldiers, some of whom committed suicide, and I disagree with the idea that all soldiers are immoral (if that is what you're implying). The soldiers I've met were some of the most well educated and articulate individuals I've ever met. That said, I do agree with you about the stupidity of the conflicts in the middle east. They are senseless, expensive, and the civilian casualty rates from drone attacks are far too high.

If you enlist during a war you are taking on the chance of being deployed, of being put in a situation where you might endanger or even kill civilians. It was something I had to grapple with when I considered enlisting at the dawn of the Iraq 'surge,' and at basic training I had a crisis of conscience about the fact that I might have to kill people. There was no clear solution to this, but being reminded that my MOS was not a combat position and that I would, in all likelihood, just be spending any deployment on a base, never interacting with the locals, help put me at ease somewhat.

Somewhat. I was never fully able to reconcile that even though I was never involved in actual combat, I had enlisted during a war knowing it might be a possibility. In other words, if you enlist you are agreeing to be the arm (or gun, rather) of the politicians who decide to send you to war.

I agree with you 100%. All I'm saying is that the soldiers are not necessarily to blame for the commands given by generals and politicians. A more clarifying example would be Vietnam, in which I had two grandfathers serve (both enlisted). Now, I disagree with that conflict, but I also disagree with the way veterans were treated after they returned. You should not sign up to go to a war you do not support, However, I still think that service men and women are worthy of a certain amount of respect, assuming their character warrants that respect. I have noticed that the individuals most willing to go to war are those who have never served. The "chicken-hawks." You'll notice all the Republican candidates were prepped to sound the drums of war last election, and none of them had served. The exception was Ron Paul, who did serve, and who did not want to go to war. Again, I agree with you, I'm just saying that many soldiers I've met struggle with guilt and/or depression, and I don't believe they are bad or immoral just because they were soldiers.

 

[crazygameguy4ever]

only idiots who want to die at a young age join the military.. you'd never catch me joining, i like living thank you very much.

 

[SecondPrize]

If you're going to join, go Coast Guard or Air Force. They've got the best quality of life by far over any other service.

 

[Thaluikhain]

only idiots who want to die at a young age join the military.. you'd never catch me joining, i like living thank you very much.

I remember reading a Thai military officer say that they wanted to recruit people while young, because when people grow up a bit they won't want to charge machine guns anymore.

 

[senordesol]

I'm the first son in a very long line of Sailors to not join the Navy...and everyone in my family's okay with that. Why? Because I would have gotten nothing out of it. My Grandfathers joined to serve their country in WWII, and their fathers for WWI. My Dad joined because he wanted to learn a skill he could apply to the real-world. Me? I'd have gotten nothing from it...nothing that I wanted anyway.

Here's the thing about the military: it doesn't turn you into a mindless combat drone, or a baby killer, it doesn't guarantee you a painful unmourned death in some foreign land. But you do become US government property. You go where they say you go, wear what they tell you to wear (and HOW they tell you to wear it), do what they tell you to do, and if you have a problem with it; that's all well and good so long as you keep it to yourself and do all of the above.

You can be charged with damaging gov't property if you get so much as a sunburn. So you (and anyone else wondering) have to ask yourself: is this really what I want? Is there no other way? Because the military is not a place for the unkeeled. Don't know what you want to do? Well there are plenty of trucks in need of painting, heads in need of cleaning, and bombs in need of defusing.

If you are to sign up, sign up knowing what you want from your service.

 

[the clockmaker]

only idiots who want to die at a young age join the military.. you'd never catch me joining, i like living thank you very much.

You're right, your poorly punctuated, poorly thought out, totally ignorant, completely divorced from reality and almost comically over-generalised caricature of an opinion has proven that not only are you smarter than all of the people I work with and all of the people that they work with, but we are all dead and returning from our eternal, regretful slumber to tell you that you, crazygameguy4ever, are truly the best of men, smarter than all those who wear a uniform, past and present.














...Now that you have received completely unwarranted praise for your completely wrong opinion based on your supposed intelligence (for which there seems to be no evidence) can you kindly shut up about things on which you are completely ignorant. Please, as a favour. I'll be your friend if you do.

 

[wfieldb]

You can be charged with damaging gov't property if you get so much as a sunburn.

That's just an old scare tactic, it wouldn't hold up in any court.

 

[CynicalWolf]

Spent over 2 years in the Army before I was chaptered (a nice term for kicked out) for failing a piss test. I'm no dummy, thankfully, and was able to work against the joke of a legal system they have in place and end up with a pretty good discharge, good enough to help me get jobs on the civilian side.

My MOS was infantry and I spent roughly a year in Georgia and then another year stationed in Italy with the 173rd ABCT. After I was cut from the deployment roster along with about half of the other Infantrymen on post, my entire reason for joining the Army was pretty much thrown out the window, and I started drinking and doing all kinds of drugs. As you can probably guess, I learned a valuable lesson at that point in my life.

Anyway, in your current situation, I'd say it's a good idea. But DON'T join the Army. If you're gonna join the Army, DON'T pick Infantry. I loved being Infantry but I'm a guns-fast cars-easy women type of guy (most infantrymen fit that profile) and honestly you don't sound like that's what you're into. Join the Navy or the Air Force (there's a lot of nice women in the Air Force actually) and pick a job that ACTUALLY interests you and can give you some useful skills for when you get out.

back when I first joined all I wanted to do was kill people and blow shit up. I was a stupid kid and honestly didn't think about the consequences of my actions OR my future. I do kind of place blame on the Army for that meltdown I had. They took away my opportunity to ACTUALLY go do my job instead of doing all the endless, monotonous training they had us engaged in most of the time. BUT it was MY choice to spend all my money on booze, weed, and blow and ruin my career. I'm a firm believer that 90% of what happens to you in life, you bring on yourself.

But yeah, I'd say definitely join the Navy or the Air Force. And when you're in, SAVE MONEY as much as you can. I was stationed in Italy, so all I wanted to do was travel. I blew EVERY paycheck I got traveling all over Europe. I really regret not saving any of that money.

ALSO, do some COLLEGE while you're in the military. I can't stress this enough. No matter what the workload of your actual job is, try to get in as many classes as you feel comfortable with. It's literally free and you can use those credits later on when you get out.

Hope this helped and sorry for such a long post.

 

[w9496]

Your local recruiter would know the specifics of what's going on now with incentives(it changes on an almost monthly basis), but be careful, they're notorious for being used car salesmen and fucking people hard. I was just lucky and got a decent guy.

From what I hear the National Guard is the offender there. They get bonuses for the number of sign-ups they have each year.

About joining, I'd take a look at what jobs are currently available and don't settle for one you're not entirely sure on. You don't want to spend the next 3-4 years doing a job that you hate.

 

[Dangit2019]

Don't do it.
Being a member of the military, at any level (including non-combat) is a immoral action as you voluntarily are joining, aiding and assisting a institution that is responsible for thousands of deaths of innocent civilians in the middle east.
My advice has nothing to do with the economics of the situation, I am just pointing out the moral implications of joining the army.

And you're part of that same institution if you pay taxes or buy products from any of the thousands of companies that donate to the military.

But yeah, the military is EVIL and SCARY, and must be stopped at all costs.

 

[Zack Alklazaris]

So I am in an awkward situation at the moment. I went to school for game design in Florida (I am a Minnesotan) for game design, but for certain reason that failed and I had to slink back home. I didn't come back clean however, and not only I am a saddled with stupid amounts of student debt, I owe money to several housing agencies due to shady under dealings that I can't fight and stupid as hell roommates. I tried going back to school but I can't seem to focus in class and failed alot of them, not to mention that alot of those housing agencies are knocking at my door step demanding money. The only real skill I can fall on is cooking (I have been in one kind of kitchen or another sense I was 15 and I am 23 now) but its not paying enough to cover all my expenses. I could work multiple jobs, but I have seen people go down that road and most of them never come back.

The point being that I have considered joining the military for the security that comes with it.

Now I am under no illusions,I have friends in the military. I am aware of the shit you get, the inefficiency, the dick measuring contests. etc..

But what I do know is that in exchange for about 5 to 8 years of my life I could get all my debt wiped away (everything together it comes to about 40,000) and depending on what I do in the military I could continue it as a civilian.

Any thoughts?

I tried, would of been a Staff Sargent straight out, but I was disqualified for inferior vision.
If your going to do it throw some passion behind it, the economy is shit and many more than you have the same idea. They are pickier than you think.

 

[Playful Pony]

Don't do it! You'll come back and all you will talk to your friends about is the military and how cool it was, and how hard that one week of field training was... Maybe its only people drafted for the Norwegian military that does this, but every single one of my friends that did just can't shut the hell up about it! And if you get two or more of them in the same room you might as well leave, because the talk will NEVER leave army nonsense! They also constantly use military terms and expect everyone else to understand what they mean. Just stop it!

... But seriously, if you feel up for it then go ahead. Just make sure it is what you want. I've never even been to the US so I can't really help you much beyond that X3.