I despise the very concept of superheroes

[shootthebandit]

Lex luthor is just a human being and hes able to compete with superman who is basically a deity

Iron man is only a human with technology and he can take down shit with superpowers

The x-men are all supermutants yet they are imprisoned by sentinals which are designed by humans

You are right about harry potter though. Muggles are given absolutely no credit in the films surely at least one human wouldve discovered them and the scene with the flying car. The airforce would be on that shit in seconds. Im pretty sure a supersonic jet with bombs and missiles could easily take a guy on a broom and im also pretty sure even if you are a wizard a bullet to the head would still fuck you up

 

[ron1n]

Obvious solution is to just get Michael Bay to direct and write all future Superhero media.

He would reduce them all to ancillary characters while the regular American Military does everything.

 

[theheroofaction]

Alright let me cover this one bit at a time.

The first. the whole point of the genre is a power fantasy, not some horrible propaganda.

Secondly. every comic producing company has several "normal" characters working as equals the abnormally blessed ones. I distinctly remember batman being in the justice league. This is specifically to subvert the whole "ubermensch" thing.

point the third. real life isn't fair. why should fiction be?

Point the fourth.. Most "superhero" comics implicitly if not explicitly are about the types of ways people respond to having power. People need to have power in order for this to work.

 

[josemlopes]

How can works of fiction that exist primarily to celebrate the innate superiority of one group of persons over the rest of humanity be so popular?

The fact that even with all that power they choose to protect us is actually an important reason of why its popular, its a story of a super-hero (super because its more then human and hero because its a hero to all the others).

The Man of Steel movie covers that, its basicly what the movie is all about.

 

[Casual Shinji]

You are right about harry potter though. Muggles are given absolutely no credit in the films surely at least one human wouldve discovered them and the scene with the flying car. The airforce would be on that shit in seconds. Im pretty sure a supersonic jet with bombs and missiles could easily take a guy on a broom and im also pretty sure even if you are a wizard a bullet to the head would still fuck you up

This is why putting a classic wizard's society in a current setting is a bad idea.

Also, making nearly every character a wizard defeats the purpose of being a wizard or having one in your story. I mean the Harry Potter universe must house like thousands upon thousands of wizards... Talk about overkill.

 

[Relish in Chaos]

You would probably love Watchmen then.

 

[shootthebandit]

Obvious solution is to just get Michael Bay to direct and write all future Superhero media.

He would reduce them all to ancillary characters while the regular American Military does everything.

Just one small squad of the american military to be exact with a token black guy. Somehow no other militaries have got involved maybe micheal bay is trying to point out that because america has dragged all of us into its oil profit wars when they get fucked over by giant space robots we dont give a fuck

Screw Superman.

What i find a little sad is that superMAN, the pinnacle of all that is humanity and the idol we strive to be, isnt even human. He isnt even a man. He isnt a super MAN hes a super "Something BETTER than a man". Is our race so terrible that we feel the need to take something different, pretend its human because of superficial similarities and then hero worship it? (Im talking about the actions of the humans in super man cannon). I dunno the fact superman isnt human is glossed over when people want to idolise him as a paragon of humanity but then suddenly it matters when he is lonely. Is the fact he is called superMAN ever talked about when he isnt even human?

Lemme just quote homestuck:

Spoiler

CG: YOU ALL TRACE THE MYTHOLOGICAL FOOTSTEPS OF YOUR BELOVED HUMAN SUPERMAN WHO'S REALLY JUST A MUSCULAR CAUCASIAN ALIEN.
CG: IT'S HILARIOUS HOW HUMANS WORSHIP HIM AS A PINNACLE OF HUMAN HEROISM AND VIRTUE BUT HE ISN'T EVEN HUMAN.
CG: ACTUALLY IT'S INCREDIBLY PATHETIC.
CG: BUT ALSO IN A WAY KIND OF ADMIRABLE.
CG: BECAUSE IT MEANS DEEP DOWN YOU ALL MUST REALIZE WHO YOUR DADDY IS.
CG: WE ARE, BITCHES

I think you are wrong. Superman is the everyday american hero standing up for the american dream and way of life yet hes an immigrant to america. Sound familiar?

 

[EternallyBored]

Ah yes, Iron Man and Batman. Proof that being rich is the greatest super power of them all...

Neither of them are super heroes, just regular heroes. You have to have a supernatural ability to be a superhero or supervillain.

Except comic book Iron man has had super powers in the past, the Extremis virus basically made his armor a part of him as well basically giving him the power to manipulate technological devices on a whim, although I haven't read it lately so I am unsure if he still has those powers or if they have been taken away some how.

The above point is irrelevant because both Batman and Iron Man are still basically superhuman their intellect is at a level that would be pretty much impossible for any normal human to approach. They've both got that comic book intellect that lets them invent things that nobody else seems to be able to use and mysteriously never makes it to the public domain. Just calling it technology is a handwaving excuse to cover the fact that they are just superpowers that are powered by money rather than the sun or a green ring.

This is the second point, as both Iron Man and Batman are playing with the superpower of infinite money, we never see any of them run their businesses for any real period of time, and Tony Stark has actually canonically run Stark Industries into the ground on multiple occasions, yet the both of them can pull Billions in money and resources wherever they want on a seconds notice. They can basically pull superpowers out of their ass as needed, they just call it a freeze spray or new repulsor model, rather than freeze breath and power blasts.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

I think you are wrong. Superman is the everyday american hero standing up for the american dream and way of life yet hes an immigrant to america. Sound familiar?

And if that were discussed it would be interesting.

But superman represents the smoothest form of immigration. A person who is TOTALLY indistinguishable from the native population in almost every way coming to the country, with a flawless accent and english and as such he wont have any of the issues that someone who is blatantly not from here will have. He fits in, he basically IS a native in every way it could possibly cause him something negative. And in every way it could be a positive thing its exaggerated and drawn out. He gets all the bonus's for not being human but none of the negative aspects for not being FROM here. No one ever freaking mentions it because he is basically a carbon copy of a regular human but with added superness. He doesnt have to deal with ANY of the issues of not being from here but he gets all of the perks from not being from here. The fact hes a "Perfect" human caucasian male is quite frankly totally bizarre and it means he has no issues integrating into our society. Theres no culture clash or isolationism because he looks and acts JUST like everyone else. But he also has super cool god like add ons.

It irks me that not only is supermans power boringly flawless but his origin story, despite having the capacity to explore some AWESOME themes about being literally "alien" and another species defender, is pretty much white washed into the most boring story ever.

"Alien from another planet lands in America! But its ok because he can look, talk, walk, converse and interact EXACTLY like your average american to the point where NO ONE recognizes him as different unless he specifically tells them!". Does any arc ever explore how superman feels about sheparding the humans? Do the humans ever comment about having this guardian from another world plunge into their planet and become the earth police? Its avoided because for practical purposes the story pretends he's a superMAN as the name suggests.

The story pretty much pretends he is a human (because its convenient to) unless narrative involving his powers demands we realise "oh yeah hes an alien lol i forgot".

 

[JoshuaMadoc]

The "stories" that focus on Supers is something I can't stand most of the time. The whole thing where you can't ever go eye-for-an-eye unless you're a highly iconic antiheroic super, else you're a supervillain, that just drives me up the wall. I can just read Vinland Saga, and the only one with superpowers in that series is a giant-ass Viking that substitutes javelins for sharpened logs, and that STILL has a lot more story depth, and a less hamfisted handling of the classic dilemma of right-or-wrong.

Oh, but you know, I might be wrong, because I'm not even a real superhero comic fan. I just read manga almost exclusively, and I know how much superhero comic fans hate that.

Next is the downright mean-spirited treatment of anyone with unorthodox abilities and the under-utilization of the most popular abilities. Basically, what I got from reading the comics is that anyone with unorthodox powers will most likely be dumber than bricks, and will die very very quickly, or retire early after having realized just how outmatched they are. Also, nothing screams "laziness" more than having a super have an ability listed as, "Mastery of Multiple/All forms of Martial Arts".

There's this other Japanese series named JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, and one of the abilities Stand users can have in that series is the ability to open and close zippers. That's it. Try having a super laugh at that before they get all their bodyparts zipped open. Hell, even Japanese manga aimed at middleschoolers tend to have a focus on a single martial art that's drawn with so much better action than almost all the martial arts scenes I read in most superhero comic books.


TL;DR I got fed up with superhero comic shenanigans and I'm now spending the rest of my life being the butt of all jokes by most of the spandex comic community because they think I'm hallucinating that their beloved spandex comics have any errors. Which they always do.

 

[Hawkeye21]

And what's more, human attempts to level the playing field with technology are generally rendered ineffective because most superheroes and supervillains are conveniently immune to human weapons.

You should read "The Boys". Seriously.

 

[MorphingDragon]

I just put it this way.

I can happily watch super hero movies or serial TV shows but the comics annoy me to no end and not because of the "CANNON UNIVERSE" nonsense.

 

[Queen Michael]

Oh, but you know, I might be wrong, because I'm not even a real superhero comic fan. I just read manga almost exclusively, and I know how much superhero comic fans hate that.

Next is the downright mean-spirited treatment of anyone with unorthodox abilities and the under-utilization of the most popular abilities. Basically, what I got from reading the comics is that anyone with unorthodox powers will most likely be dumber than bricks, and will die very very quickly, or retire early after having realized just how outmatched they are.

Actually, I'm a huge superhero fan, and I also read several manga books every day.

Also, could you give me some concrete example of what you mentioned in the other paragraph I quoted?

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

You don't actually read much Superman do you? The whole Superman is an alien thing comes up frequently when it comes to the population of Earth not trusting him. Superman sheparding humanity has been done a lot, usually in regards to how far that should go and how much he should interfere.It's not avoided at all, they're fairly recurring themes in Superman comics.

Sadly as a student i cant afford too many comics so no :/ I've tried to but I've never seen the arcs you mentioned so i sorta lost interest. Do you know them by name so i could perhaps read them?

Also is the obvious paradox of his name ever dealt with?

 

[EternallyBored]

Oh, but you know, I might be wrong, because I'm not even a real superhero comic fan. I just read manga almost exclusively, and I know how much superhero comic fans hate that.

Next is the downright mean-spirited treatment of anyone with unorthodox abilities and the under-utilization of the most popular abilities. Basically, what I got from reading the comics is that anyone with unorthodox powers will most likely be dumber than bricks, and will die very very quickly, or retire early after having realized just how outmatched they are.

Actually, I'm a huge superhero fan, and I also read several manga books every day.

Also, could you give me some concrete example of what you mentioned in the other paragraph I quoted?

I'm honestly curious about this too, I distinctly remember most Shounen manga being harsh on characters with quirky power sets. Even the magical girl and giant robot series tend to give a hard time to characters with unconventional powers/mechs.

Although given his one example is JoJo's Bizarre adventure, I don't know how much faith I have in his interpretation. That series was pretty much centered around bizarre powers being used in fights so its a poor representation of attitudes in manga and anime in general.

 

[O maestre]

Power fantasy pure and simple, why they have been so popular with the general populace is really interesting. In th beginning the power fantasy aspect really reflected well with young boys and teen boys, "who is going to tell me what to do if I could fly and punch holes through walls?"

Also comics actually boomed during the depression as far as I remember, so they may be booming now due to our current financial situation where people just need something that is very very far from reality to escape.

Another reason to their mass popularity is the already present mythology around them, being a largely secular society we have little to no myths in the classical sense, but with super heroes, at least DC we have icons archetypes in the same way that the ancient Greeks had Hercules and Peruses, the super heroes are our modern demi-gods.
Everyone back then knew of Hercules 12 labours, much like everyone now knows the story of baby Kal-El's descent to earth.

They are part of the same myth fabric that gives us horror movies, only that these are tales from Hades and not Olympus... I think I strained a metaphor there.

 

[Rellik San]

Wish fulfilment fantasies, As many have already said, is where the appeal lays.

And of course they seem flawless and ultra powerful, most of them were invented in the 1920's/30's during a golden age of sci-fi adventure and conform to those ideals. The issue with comics, is a simple one and it's the same one I have to remind people of when they call The Dark Knight "OMGZ BEST BATS EVAR! TOTES LIKE COMIX!" a lot of the issues you bring up depends entirely on who's writing the character, there is a reason names like Frank Millar (pre-Sin City), Geoff Johns, Alan Moore, Grant Morrison, Adam Warren, Nigel Kitching, Warren Ellis and Dan Abnett (to name a few) are held in such high regard.

It's the same as TV, when you see an episode written by a certain staff or guest writer you immediately know if it's going to be awesome or a groaner.

Same with philosophy, non-fiction and poetry.

In essence, like all Art, it's not an issue of the concept, but rather who's tackling the concept.

Although what I think would be a more interesting discussion, is why Superheroes are such a part of Americana, where as other countries comics have less of a focus on them; i.e. us British seem to love dark, Orwellian, oppressive sci-fi with zero hope.

 

[Winnosh]

You don't actually read much Superman do you? The whole Superman is an alien thing comes up frequently when it comes to the population of Earth not trusting him. Superman sheparding humanity has been done a lot, usually in regards to how far that should go and how much he should interfere.It's not avoided at all, they're fairly recurring themes in Superman comics.

Sadly as a student i cant afford too many comics so no :/ I've tried to but I've never seen the arcs you mentioned so i sorta lost interest. Do you know them by name so i could perhaps read them?

Also is the obvious paradox of his name ever dealt with?

It's a common occurence A story type that pops up so very often. As for the name. Well He's a MAN in every way that counts he's trying to set himself up as an example even to his own detrement. There are things he wants to do but wont because he knows that his own desires have to take a backseat to what is best for others. New 52 tackles the alienness in the first story arc. And there are many others.

 

[JoshuaMadoc]

Oh, but you know, I might be wrong, because I'm not even a real superhero comic fan. I just read manga almost exclusively, and I know how much superhero comic fans hate that.

Next is the downright mean-spirited treatment of anyone with unorthodox abilities and the under-utilization of the most popular abilities. Basically, what I got from reading the comics is that anyone with unorthodox powers will most likely be dumber than bricks, and will die very very quickly, or retire early after having realized just how outmatched they are.

Actually, I'm a huge superhero fan, and I also read several manga books every day.

Also, could you give me some concrete example of what you mentioned in the other paragraph I quoted?

I'm honestly curious about this too, I distinctly remember most Shounen manga being harsh on characters with quirky power sets. Even the magical girl and giant robot series tend to give a hard time to characters with unconventional powers/mechs.

Although given his one example is JoJo's Bizarre adventure, I don't know how much faith I have in his interpretation. That series was pretty much centered around bizarre powers being used in fights so its a poor representation of attitudes in manga and anime in general.

And there you have it, the reason why I don't even want to give a concrete answer. It won't convince anyone, ever.