I do believe it is time for me to whine mightily about Fallout 4.

[sXeth]

I'm not sure where people are getting the idea from that the stealth is broken or doesn't work. It works fine for me.

If you're laden down with armor (or worse, wearing power armor) then it's not going to work very well. Likewise if you're firing a noisy weapon (ie: one that's not suppressed). Light levels play a part too; in interiors I can get pretty close to enemies as long as I stick to the shadows, (there has been more than one occasion where I've been able to sneak right up to feral ghouls playing dead, without disturbing them, and I get a 'pickpocket' option). Outdoors it's a slightly different matter; during nighttime I can sneak around fairly well, (for instance, I can sneak right under the catwalk in Lexington with the Fat Man Raider on it, and he won't even see me or know I'm there), but daytime is a completely different matter; outside in broad daylight there's no point in even sneaking at all.

The main problems with the stealth is the level-gating on the perks to make it effective and area/level design (There's not a whole lot of paths, especially inside, that don't leave you straight in an enemy's direct vision and immediately detected, barring get lucky with them turning around). Outside at nighttime I find a major problem with the psychic-level turrets, which seem to pick you up no matter what.

(Also you can stealth fine, even arguably better, in Power Armor thats modded for it)

 

[Zhukov]

I found the stealth to get broken very easily outside, yet inside dudes could be walking up to me till my face was in their crotch and still not see me.

I encountered the exact same thing in Skyrim.

It's probably some kind of quirk in the engine.

 

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

For a while there survival difficulty was really fun when I had a wounding pistol that is basically broken (25 extra wounding damage over time per shot but for some reason the DOTS stack!) But I feel like theres a sweet spot of good combat though which I ended up levelling out of, and the enemies are becoming tedius damage sponges again.

I think just making new characters over and over is the answer for me.

 

[FirstNameLastName]

stealth is badly implemented and not explained at all and took me a while to figure out the [ ] are the indicator further apart they are the more hidden you are.

there are so many features like that which are never explained. it took me looking at a video online to realise how cover works. if you walk up to something and your character points the gun down you are in cover. aim through the sights and they are leaning out.

yeah takes alot to upgrade your gear and especially power armour and keep it repaired. you really need settlements to do that especially farms devoted to producing adhesive although i am loving the second level of the scrapper perk ALOT makes it so much easier to find materials you need when they are highlighted

all that said im enjoying the game even with the issues.

I've completed the entire main quest and this is the first I've heard about both of those features. The cover one seems like something I should have tried since, from what you've said, it operates similar to other games (Far Cry in particular), but I never even noticed the brackets moved at all, let alone indicated anything.

 

[DoPo]

I found the stealth to get broken very easily outside, yet inside dudes could be walking up to me till my face was in their crotch and still not see me.

I encountered the exact same thing in Skyrim.

It's probably some kind of quirk in the engine.

Same in Oblivion. I remember installing a mod (or several) that attempted to fix stealth.

 

[Dalsyne]

Mm. No, I like the gunplay. It's reasonably responsive and has a certain weight to it (at least the bullet weapons do).

My biggest gripes are two of the problems outlined here: lack of scarcity and screwed up dialogue system.

I've seen some people in this thread say the game was "hard" on normal. Uh... what. Yeah, maybe it is, if you don't keep track of the easily-identifiable metagame and just don't care about becoming more powerful with your character, use any weapon you come across and barely ever pick stuff up. But playing on Hard, I have 500+ stimpaks, more drugs than I know what to do with, 30.000 bottlecaps and my fusion core count has been sitting on 99 for a good long while. I've been running around in Power Armor since mid-game and making more fusion cores than I could spend. I had a mind to switch to Survival ever since I saw that nothing could hurt me except one-shot-kill explosive weapons, but I don't like bullet sponges. Though I don't like killing a Mirelurk Queen in 1-2 rockets either.

The story does SOMETHING with itself, but that something clearly lacks any kind of depth which could easily have been fixed with more dialogue where it mattered. Why can't I ask Father about the Institute? How do they "program" their synths, do they kill people when they replace them, what is their take on the people of the Wasteland in general. Why can't I ask Maxson about his policy on ghouls that are not feral? The dialogue system is bad, that's why.

But yeah. Good game overall. Shame that it's so loosely designed it puts an elderly hooker to shame.

 

[Buckets]

I still love fallout, even after having the Glory glitch where the railroad quests were not completable because she died in an earlier mission after I had left the area. That was annoying and made me save more often and keep checking the HQ to make sure she was back. It has it's annoyances but I have still never been so absorbed in a game as I have Fallout.
My son's friends were all singing the praise of Blops III and Star Wars Battlefront for about 2 days, and there are only about 2 still playing them,he is still playing through Fallout 4 and enjoying the whole experience, so much so that I will install Fallout 3 on the Xbox One so he can give that a go.

 

[JemothSkarii]

I've vocalised my displeasure/disgust with features and aspects with Fallout 4 in many threads, so I won't repeat them here. But there's something I never found out (that or the game never tells you). Do they ever explain why people get replaced?

Spoiler: Fallout 4 sub plot spoilers

I figured it would be Saturday Morning Cartoon Villain 'SYNTHS ARE GREATER THAN HUMANS IN EVERY WAY AND ARE THE FUTURE OF HUMANITY'. But Bethesda can't be that awful can they? Reminds me of this delightful post:

http://imgur.com/qB89wsm

Then again, I'd argue the Institute is the worst written faction in the game (How they make these scientists so bleeding incompetent shocks me). The Minuteman don't really have any plot, the Railroad barely has anything, and the Brotherhood of Steel seems like bad fanfiction.

 

[IceForce]

But there's something I never found out (that or the game never tells you). Do they ever explain why people get replaced?

lolnope. That's probably the biggest plot hole in the game so far.
It's talked up as this hugely terrible thing. (Hell, on your first visit to Diamond City, practically every initial conversation involves the whole 'SYNTHS REPLACING PEOPLE' thing.) And yet when the Institute faction finally gets introduced properly, that whole prior plot point is completely forgotten about and never spoken of again.

 

[pookie101]

For a while there survival difficulty was really fun when I had a wounding pistol that is basically broken (25 extra wounding damage over time per shot but for some reason the DOTS stack!) But I feel like theres a sweet spot of good combat though which I ended up levelling out of, and the enemies are becoming tedius damage sponges again.

I think just making new characters over and over is the answer for me.

yeah if you manage to find an enemy which drops a wounding weapon that can be modded to automatic it becomes really easy.. taking down a supermutant behemoth with a 10mm pistol easy

 

[Kyrian007]

I agree with you on the sneak part, the perk is absolutely useless. I had maxed out my sneak perk, and it feels like they still catch wind of me easily.

I found the stealth to get broken very easily outside, yet inside dudes could be walking up to me till my face was in their crotch and still not see me. And this wasn't even at full Stealth perk. It also helped that I got rid of Dogmeat. It seems the more you deck out your companion the more likely you are to get seen.

I am pretty sure that the game includes your companion in the calculation for detecting the player character... and gives the companion its' completely own stealth rating instead of using the players characters. Once I ditched companions and went full solo it became ridiculously easy to sneak up on people, monsters, robots and what have you to deliver some odd ten shots from Deliverer into their unsuspecting faces. At that point difficulty was no more.

Yes, for stealth you must leave your companion at the door. Same as Skyrim was, maybe even more touchy. But I figured that out several games ago, I never use any companion as anything other than packmules and as extra inventory. Oh and as the occasional questgiver.

Oh, and lastly there's the dialogue system. I was initially overjoyed at having a proper talking protagonist rather than a heavily armed fencepost and it feels like they made a genuine effort to provide some engaging dialogue every once in a while. Sadly they went and fucked it up by trying to copy Bioware's dialogue wheel while simultaneously not understanding the things that made it work and exacerbating its problems. Remember how with Bioware's dialogue wheel you always knew which options would move the conversation forward and which ones would draw it out based on their position on the wheel? Because Bethesda clearly fucking don't. But hey, remember how with Bioware's dialogue wheel the insufficient summaries would occasionally make you say something unintended? Well Fallout 4 has that shit by the barrowload... "Sarcastic".

It seemed to me like they didn't set it to align the length of the conversation based upon the wheel position, but the tone. Right=bastard, left=sarcastic, up=answer with a question/more information, down=boyscout. So it was at least consistent.

I've been singing the praises of FO 4 and gainsaying the haters for a while now, but I do have something I can criticize. Skyrim's XP system worked so well, but for some reason we've backtracked to the stupid "shot my 100th bandit and my lockpicking got better." I really don't mind that they got rid of skills and streamlined it down to SPECIAL and perks, but I'm thinking I would have preferred a more Skyrim like Skills and Perks and ditch SPECIAL instead. That way they could go back to increasing shooting by... practicing SHOOTING. Gaining lockpicking skills by LOCKPICKING. A system that makes some kind of sense as opposed to bog standard "video game logic." Plus, like it was in Skyrim, to make a different class of character you would have to change your playstyle. Which makes it significantly superior and more nuanced than just putting the numbers in a different place on the character sheet.

 

[Zhukov]

It seemed to me like they didn't set it to align the length of the conversation based upon the wheel position, but the tone. Right=bastard, left=sarcastic, up=answer with a question/more information, down=boyscout. So it was at least consistent.

Thing is, Mass Effect's dialogue wheel did that too, but with an added layer. Options on the left side of the wheel gives you more details without progressing to the next subject. Options on right side of the wheel progress the conversation with upper right being earnest/diplomatic, middle right being neutral and lower right being sarcastic/forceful.

With F4 I never know if picking a dialogue option will move things along and lock out the other options of if I'll get brought back to the current set.

It's like the dialogue equivalent of those level designs where there's two paths, one with some optional stuff and one to continue the level but no way to tell the difference. Then you pick the second one by accident and it locks the door behind you so you can't go back.

I've been singing the praises of FO 4 and gainsaying the haters for a while now, but I do have something I can criticize. Skyrim's XP system worked so well, but for some reason we've backtracked to the stupid "shot my 100th bandit and my lockpicking got better." I really don't mind that they got rid of skills and streamlined it down to SPECIAL and perks, but I'm thinking I would have preferred a more Skyrim like Skills and Perks and ditch SPECIAL instead. That way they could go back to increasing shooting by... practicing SHOOTING. Gaining lockpicking skills by LOCKPICKING. A system that makes some kind of sense as opposed to bog standard "video game logic." Plus, like it was in Skyrim, to make a different class of character you would have to change your playstyle. Which makes it significantly superior and more nuanced than just putting the numbers in a different place on the character sheet.

Actually, I despised the Skyrim system.

Yeah, it makes more sense than getting better at conversation by slitting enough throats, but it's annoying as hell. Especially when you want to level up something that you only use occasionally.

I ended up spending 30 minutes sitting in stealth casting illusion spells over and over on a single bandit because I wanted one particular perk for utility but didn't have much reason to cast illusions spells during regular combat.

And don't even get me started on smithing and crafting.

I don't require my magic dragon adventure to be an accurate simulation. Give me convenience any day.

 

[Kyrian007]

I've been singing the praises of FO 4 and gainsaying the haters for a while now, but I do have something I can criticize. Skyrim's XP system worked so well, but for some reason we've backtracked to the stupid "shot my 100th bandit and my lockpicking got better." I really don't mind that they got rid of skills and streamlined it down to SPECIAL and perks, but I'm thinking I would have preferred a more Skyrim like Skills and Perks and ditch SPECIAL instead. That way they could go back to increasing shooting by... practicing SHOOTING. Gaining lockpicking skills by LOCKPICKING. A system that makes some kind of sense as opposed to bog standard "video game logic." Plus, like it was in Skyrim, to make a different class of character you would have to change your playstyle. Which makes it significantly superior and more nuanced than just putting the numbers in a different place on the character sheet.

Actually, I despised the Skyrim system.

Yeah, it makes more sense than getting better at conversation by slitting enough throats, but it's annoying as hell. Especially when you want to level up something that you only use occasionally.

I ended up spending 30 minutes sitting in stealth casting illusion spells over and over on a single bandit because I wanted one particular perk for utility but didn't have much reason to cast illusions spells during regular combat.

And don't even get me started on smithing and crafting.

I don't require my magic dragon adventure to be an accurate simulation. Give me convenience any day.

I just preferred the challenge of having to play the game A DIFFERENT WAY to make a different character. You actually had to change your whole approach to different situations to make a different class of character. It wasn't easy... you're right it was actually a more difficult kind of character development. Less like "character creation" and more like "constant character evolution." I'm hoping to find a mod that tries a version like this. Also I'm looking for a mod that would give me the ability to send a companion back to a nearby workbench and deposit all the junk and then catch up with me so I could get on with the adventuring.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I found the stealth to get broken very easily outside, yet inside dudes could be walking up to me till my face was in their crotch and still not see me.

I encountered the exact same thing in Skyrim.

It's probably some kind of quirk in the engine.

I'd need to see some hard data, but maybe it also has something to do with the level scaling of the enemies. After a certain point in Fallout 4, outdoor stealth became way harder almost instantly, eventhough I was going for a stealth build with shadowed leather armor and everthing.

I know Oblivion had completely broken level scaling for the enemies, where you reached a particular level and kodiak bears and leopards started showing up, and you knew from that point on you were kind of fucked.

None of Bethesda's games since then have been that bad, but it might be Fallout 4 just giving the enemies a noticeably high upgrade once you pass a certain level.

 

[DoPo]

I know Oblivion had completely broken level scaling for the enemies, where you reached a particular level and kodiak bears and leopards started showing up, and you knew from that point on you were kind of fucked.

Not exactly - in Oblivion, everything levels with you so you have to take a very balanced approach to how you level. You want combat skills to match the enemy strength as you progress...while at the same time also levelling the non-combat skills.

This...didn't really work in practice because it meant that making a class in the way Oblivion wants you to fucks you royally. It's especially funny since some of the pre-made classes that are supposed to be combat oriented like the barbarian, I believe, actually suck super bad. Why? Because the damn Athletics skill - it levels up as you walk so it's not impossible to get of the jail, go do few quests just by running around in Imperial City, then go outside and get pwned by everybody because you've levelled up several times from just walking and you're combat skills aren't good enough. Of course, when you try to use your combat skills...you level up again thus making your enemies even stronger.

It was a vile system and Bethesda just cannot seem to grasp how to tie mechanics into their games. As of late this has resulted in them removing a lot of stuff partly because they are so bad at handling it.

 

[Post Tenebrae Morte]

I actually found the shooting to be quite well polished, and the stealth to be somewhat better than 3 or new Vegas. I'll agree though that the melee play style needs to be rethought instead of copy and pasting a simplified skyrim scheme. Did you know you could use cover shooting? Just go up to a wall with your weapon drawn and when it is lowered, you'll automatically do cover shooting via using the sights. As for stealth, it does warn you when your hidden, seen, or need to use caution due to being heard. It isnt the best, but this isn't exactly splinter cell: pandora tomorrow we are examining,

The settlement system, I feel, was put in the game to give players options in terms of where they could set up shop. People complained and used mods to implement this in fallout 3 and new Vegas, so this being in at the start feels logical, at least to me. It does have some disconnect, in that it'd be nice if npcs acknowledged where you reside or perhaps some unique quests for the settlements instead of killing something. But I found it fun for the time I could put into it, I'll explore it some more when I have the time since college takes precedence.

The dialogue wheel is quite...interesting at times. I feel that it'd be nice if we had better options other than being nice, inquisitive, sarcastic, or just saying no. Alongside that, I'd like to be able to ask even more specific questions instead of a few key topics, but I can see this being a bit of a issue due to morrowinds odd dialogue system which was sort of like that.

 

[Fappy]

I agree with most of your points. I actually haven't played in over a week in favor of Bloodborne (again), which I never thought would happen before the game launched. I don't know what it is specifically, but it's a lot easier for me to stomach the flaws and stay motivated in TES games. In Fallout I always feel directionless and like what I am doing doesn't really matter at all. Maybe if you could roleplay properly in this game it would be different, but with the introduction of a voiced PC, a stupid plot hook (that the game never lets you forget), and an incredibly important fast travel system, role playing is nearly impossible. Also, the game needs more questlines that don't conflict with others/aren't shitty radiant quest factories.

 

[Azure-Supernova]

Beyond choosing which weapon to shoot there's bugger all variety or options in a firefight and absolutely no nuance. You just sort of stand there chipping away at health bars while enemies chip away at yours.

It's not even that exciting. There are clear frontrunners with guns that share the same ammo, like the Submachine Gun vs Auto-Combat Rifle for example. That is of course unless the enemy are using them and then even a pipe pistol can be devestating despite its pitiful damage when you come to loot it.

The difficulty levels do nothing to help. Easy and normal can almost be played with your eyes closed. Hard requires you to open your eyes long enough to find the stimpacks in your inventory every so often. Then survival difficulty comes along and delivers a breath of sensibility by slowing down the healing rate, preventing you from just rapidly medicating all your problems away. Sadly, it also turns all the enemies into dreary bullet sponges, making the already tepid and torpid combat into an utter slog.

I had actually just logged on with the intention of making a thread about the 'difficulty' in Fallout 4 and I share the exact same sentiment. I've got a save on Survival difficulty and I'm sitting at level 22. Just as you say, the decreased healing rate has forced me to be quite creative with cover and I've actually found a use for the buffs granted by food items. But taking 100% more damage whilst dealing 50% less is not difficult, it's just boring.
I have just dived into the entrance to Vault 81 in pursuit of Nick and the Triggermen are destroying me in my full suit of T-51c, yet they're tanking 4-5 VATS headshots from my .55 or .44 despite the Riflemen and Gunslinger perks. These guys have absolutely no DR, yet they're just soaking up damage like crazy.

 

[Zhukov]

I had actually just logged on with the intention of making a thread about the 'difficulty' in Fallout 4 and I share the exact same sentiment. I've got a save on Survival difficulty and I'm sitting at level 22. Just as you say, the decreased healing rate has forced me to be quite creative with cover and I've actually found a use for the buffs granted by food items. But taking 100% more damage whilst dealing 50% less is not difficult, it's just boring.
I have just dived into the entrance to Vault 81 in pursuit of Nick and the Triggermen are destroying me in my full suit of T-51c, yet they're tanking 4-5 VATS headshots from my .55 or .44 despite the Riflemen and Gunslinger perks. These guys have absolutely no DR, yet they're just soaking up damage like crazy.

My go-to solution to anything on survivor difficulty that I can't stealth-cheese my way through is chems, specifically psychojet.

It gives +25% damage and makes everything go slow motion for a bit. But while enemies will fire slower you can still fire a semi-automatic weapon at normal speed, or close to it. Slurping down one of those bad boys before running in with a high capacity combat shotgun takes care of damn near anything.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

Its amazing how all the grievances to be had are almost verbatim the exact same ones from New Vegas and Fallout 3, and yet everyone seems to have forgotten that.
It really does sound like "Just another Bethesda game"