I do not like Western games at all (please read)

[Daxelman]

@Lord Omnit: Thing is, people don't die playing GTA or Halo, especially high school kids.

Now, a mother got punched in the nose for allegedly turning off a kids 360 during a match o Halo, but that is no where near dying playing Starcraft or WoW.
Both western games.

@Zera:Ninja Turtles? Srlsy, the Arcade ones are the only ones worth playing.
And EA is a good company, or else they wouldn't have been able to buy Bioware and some other company. The games are good, you just have to know where too look...
...and PlayAsia is not where.........

 

[shadow skill]

Being nameless and/or faceless really does not put you into the game. It's really just a bs line that people like to use to avoid actually making a character. At the end of the day you simply are not going to be the character given the settings these games take place in. If they wanted to really immerse you in the game you would have elements closer to KOTOR or Mass Effect where you choose how to respond to characters.


Just how the hell can you play a game until you die...that will never make sense to me.

 

[LordOmnit]

I love how people view GTA as the quintessential western game, yet in San Andreas' first week it outsold Ôkami's total sales in 2006 in Japan.
Sources: [some random places for statistics]

Hah, you act as though that makes the game any better in any respect at all. If there had been no hype around either game, I doubt it would have sold nearly as well (still pretty well, and outsold, but not killed it in sales), and don't forget that many of those copies weren't bought to play, but were bought to tout about how bad the game was, and burn by those tireless fanatics. And as for using it as the quintessential western game, yes, it fits considering what I said about the news being a report about GTA.

Half-life? Bioshock? WoW/LotRO? Actually, most FPS games nowadays take after the model Half-Life set in which the action occurs around the player.

I said to a degree, in that you are still revealing a story, rather than making one. And WoW and LoTRO have stories that aren't just random patches made by the developers?

Revealing a story? Sorry, I don't understand what you're trying to say here. You mean comparing japanese rpgs to like, choose your own adventure books? Sorry, I'm lost here.

No, I'm comparing JRPG's to books, while I'm comparing touted "free-form" games to choose your own adventure books. Although if Mass Effect is like I've heard it will be, then it would be hard to say that it was merely choose your own adventure (if your entire game experience can change by chosing to talk or not talk to a specific character, etc.).

I'd say you're incorrect here. The Japanese are just as tight fisted, it's not as if Japanese game developers just throw money all around the place...

Well, it isn't exactly throwing money around if they know that they are getting a big return on it. And you missed my point, I wasn't talking about the multitude of games from other popular media, I'm talking about the games you have no chance to hear about, that have no chance of being translated and sold outside of the origin country.

I can't speak for anyone else, but that's the way I feel most of the time. The only JRPGs I play nowadays are ones like Kingdom Hearts 2, Odin Sphere and Tales of Phantasia simply because they have fun combat systems. I could care less about...

Well, I suppose that we got to the point as to why les westerners dislike JRPG's; les westerners dislike stories that have similar plot devices with different plots! But it's just as bad for "good" American games claiming they are better than Japanese games, when they lack all elements that a "good" Japanese game has (i.e.- deep story, character development, etc.), but then again I only play games like Halo and... never mind, I never play GTA games, when I'm with friends and it poses a much better challenge than the single-player shit they make (I guess I'm the opposite of Yahtzee when it comes to that, now aren't I?). If you want cliches, then for America it would be: dystopian/post-apocalyptic future, ruggedly handsome men, big guns, and megalomaniac-control-freak-(possibly alien)-villian-who-is-uglier-than-the-worst-angle-of-a-(removed due to inappropriate content, but I assure you it would make you jam forks in your eyes if you thought about it); and cliches for Japan would be: generic good-vs-evil struggle, beautiful (albiet young-looking for the older ones and slightly older-than-they-are looking for the younger ones) characters, probably acceptable-looking villian (if s/he isn't one of the beautiful characters). Really it isn't that Japanese games are losing interactivity compared to how games were originally, they are merely not increasing the amount of interactivity, whilst still trying to keep with making the plot deeper and such (which ends up lowering the average interactivity/story ratio, but not significantly since games are much longer than they originally were). The touted western interactivity is just that twitch you are talking about; a good acupuncturist can get rid of that with a few rounds of treatment. Although I couldn't agree with you more in terms of Xenosaga; I liked the story, but I couldn't stand the fourty-odd minute long sequences that were always around. It would have been better as a series of movies made in the form of the game rather than a game or an anime.

Yeah, but I'm playing GTA because I want to smack around hoes. I want to drive fast cars. I want to have a shootout with the police. GTAs are about the player experienc...

I suppose that makes me a freak in that I don't want violence without cause? I would choose a boring world without violence and where everything is solved through a game of chess and some (insert culturally appropriate time-passing beverage not [necessarily] including alcohol) to drink. I mean, is it just me, or is it that most westerners want violence? At least the men?

Again, it isn't about the plot, it's about gaming. Remember that? Gameplay? What video-games are all about? Interacting in virtual worlds, not virtual worlds interacting for me?

Yes, I remember gameplay. Something I used to love before it became a twitch response or a passive response.

 

[LordOmnit]

Thing is, people don't die playing GTA or Halo, especially high school kids.

Yeah, but does that mean it's much better to have fun killing virtual people rather than real people? Saying that you have fun killing virtual people in an (somewhat) everyday situation is kind of weird if you ask me. But then again, "I would choose a boring world without violence and where everything is solved through a game of chess and some (insert culturally appropriate time-passing beverage not [necessarily] including alcohol) to drink," if I could.
Although I am highly against the idea that violent video games cause people to kill real people. I don't think that GTA (etc.) is going to cause people to go out and kill people.

 

[Sinfulfate]

Now don't judge me by the title alone. Just hear me out. I work at a Gamestop. Do you know our best sellers are?
Guess?



Sport games
GTA
Halo 3
Scarface(?!?)
25 to Life( oh come on!)
50 cent Bulletproof(this is sad)

This just saddens me. Looking at future releases didn't help either.

Kane and Lynch
Haze
Crysis
Call of duty 4
Unreal tournament 3
GTA4
etc

Stereotypes aren't cool and don't try to categorized all Americans or Westerners because of the sales of one gamestop in one place. There are tons of gamestops in the world and the demographics determines what games sell well in different areas.

Where is the variety? I don't want to shoot something! I don't want the game to be realistic! Since when do games have to be realistic to be awesome and fun.
WHERE IS THE FUN!?!

Like I said before the demographics of where you live determines what games sell well and which ones don't. What exactly constitutes a game as "fun"? Millions of players play Halo 3 online daily are they not having "fun"? If games like Halo, GTA or sports games aren't fun to you that doesn't mean they aren't fun to other people.

Sorry I went on a rant there, but I had to say something. and I am pretty sure I am not the only one who thinks this way. I am no way biased on games. Don't get me wrong. Its just how can you blame me. It seems that American developers either:

cant think of anything original or creative
publishers don't want to take risks

Go look up all the western games released in the last few years and try to say that statement again.

and thats just sad. I was watching Bonus Round on Gametrailers.com(check it out, but don't read the comments) and one of them came up with this:

The 3 F's of Japanese games

Fun
Fantasy
Freedom(able to develop any game without or minimal publisher interference)

The 3 R's of Western games

Rockets(explosions, senseless killings)
Realism
Rights(Licences, movie games, sport games)

If you think about, this pretty much sums it all up

No it doesn't video games are an entertainment medium and people buy video games for enjoyment(fun). If Western games weren't fun no one buy them duh. Just think how foolish that above statement sounds lol lets spend lots of money making a game and lets not make it fun. What company would do that?

I am not saying Western games suck all together, its just now I don't see any that interest me.
I just cant believe games like Madden sell like crazy, while creative and FUN games like Psychonauts and Odin Sphere gather dust( they are such good games)

Thats fine we are all open to our own opinions but to say Western Games aren't fun or to think that because a game isn't fun to you it isn't fun at all is downright foolish. All games are fun but just to different people.

Zera you sound like some simple minded gamer who only likes one genre of games and think everything else is crap and not fun. You need to expand your mind and play more games and see how fun they really are or even if you don't enjoy them still accept them as a fun/great game. As some games are just great even if you don't like the genre or the game. Example would be Gears of War. Hironobu Sakaguchi(creator of FF in case you don't know) doesn't particularitly like third person shooting games but in an interviewed hailed Gears of War as a great game because it is no matter if you like the genre or not. So my point is if you don't like a genre or a particular game you cant just write it off as a crappy game or as not fun.

 

[Katana314]

Zera, please do not lie. Please do not say that "I don't see any that interest me" (a statement of opinion) and then directly attack American developers for doing things wrong. (a statement of stereotype)

I'm not gonna deny the US puts out a lot of shit. Guess what. So does Japan. I used to like anime until I realized that if you took out the moments of staring at each other, and slow build-up/explanation of everything that happens (Hmmm. I see. He used the blunt edge of his sword to block my multiple attacks. This boy is cunning...but let's see if he can handle this. <-The previous could be replaced by total silence; WE GET WHAT HAPPENED) and re-explanation of what happened last episode or before the commercial break...then you would have 3-5 minute episodes. And I'm not just saying from the bottom of the barrel; I mean like Bleach and FMA.

And let's not forget they're not exactly so great in making their female characters seem human. In our various discussions on what girls are looking for in game girls...one thing comes up often: WEAR PANTS, not some "battle-thong".

They make good stuff. They also make bad stuff. Kinda reminds me of the US.

 

[bue519]

I think that its because Zera just enjoys holding her hands over her ears and humming really loudly whenever someone tries to have a discussion

 

[Zera]

You guys are hell bent on destroying me arent yall?

 

[slapme7times]

so did you purposely omit bioshock, mass effect, assassins creed, etc because you wanted to prove a point?

Japanese game development has been sliding steadily downhill since ff7 on the ps1 and majora's mask on the n64...

i'm sorry, you're being a pretentious asshat to write off games just by the camera perspective...

metroid prime 1? you didn't like that one? holy fuck, amazing, and done by retro!

the west owns the world.

 

[slapme7times]

also... you forgot the social aspect of all multiplayer... isn't that of some value to you?

you write off halo, cod4, etc, do you not enjoy social online experiences with the best AI physically possible, the human mind to fight against?

how can you not appreciate the value in that?

 

[Zera]

sigh...you know what? You guys win. Japanese Games suck. American Games Rules. I made this rant because I was pissed off that day. I was hoping for more intellegent responses from people who know what they are saying. I thought this site would be a good place for a good discussion. But then again this is the internet. So yeah you win, i lose.(gracefully bows out..)

 

[modris]

As with every other medium (books, movies, etc.) the vast majority of games from any country are a bit shit. There are different types of game that dominate different regional markets and most of those games are shit too. Maybe you prefer one overdone genre to another, but that doesn't mean there aren't good games and bad in each. It's also important to remember that it is possible to dislike a good game and like a bad one. It really all comes down to what you prefer and trying to convince someone that the games they like are bad and games they dislike are good is utterly pointless.

Neither the west nor Japan have a monopoly on good games and believing you have to take sides in some sort of regional struggle for video game dominance is silly. Play the games that interest you, maybe be willing to try a genre you don't normally like (you might be surprised) and accept that it is perfectly fine for other people to have different preferences than you do.

 

[Joe]

sigh...you know what? You guys win. Japanese Games suck. American Games Rules. I made this rant because I was pissed off that day. I was hoping for more intellegent responses from people who know what they are saying. I thought this site would be a good place for a good discussion. But then again this is the internet. So yeah you win, i lose.(gracefully bows out..)

Again, but with less emo.

 

[Zera]

As with every other medium (books, movies, etc.) the vast majority of games from any country are a bit shit. There are different types of game that dominate different regional markets and most of those games are shit too. Maybe you prefer one overdone genre to another, but that doesn't mean there aren't good games and bad in each. It's also important to remember that it is possible to dislike a good game and like a bad one. It really all comes down to what you prefer and trying to convince someone that the games they like are bad and games they dislike are good is utterly pointless.

Neither the west nor Japan have a monopoly on good games and believing you have to take sides in some sort of regional struggle for video game dominance is silly. Play the games that interest you, maybe be willing to try a genre you don't normally like (you might be surprised) and accept that it is perfectly fine for other people to have different preferences than you do.

Correction there is hope on this site

 

[LordLocke]

I would have thought this asinine topic would have had the good sense to die already.

Japanese games just have the same flaws applied to different genres, which is kinda a sign of what things are really like since we only really get the best of what comes out of the land of the rising sun. I loved the JRPG when I was 12 on the SNES, but over the PSX era I became so over saturated and frustrated at the genre that I kinda bailed ship on consoles all together and wound up becoming a PC gamer until a few years after the PS2 came out. And with JRPGS being in the same rut the SNES innovated and the PSX era wore into a bottomless pit, I've mostly left that genre alone barring games that actually had the balls to try and do something honestly and genuinely different like FFXII or Paper Mario. (or are my dirty little secret like Okage: Shadow King) Nintendo's another shining example of this, considering they'll spend millions to push the next Zelda or Mario game, but shoot their latest budding franchise in the foot by not even letting people LOOKING for news on the latest installment know it's coming (What, Battalion Wars 2 is out this week?)

Anymore I find myself playing a healthy mix of American and Japanese-originated games, like any gamer with a lick of sense on what a good game can be. My last purchases were the Orange Box and Bioshock, and my next one's going to be Virtua Fighter 5. Some sides just do certain things better. Japanese games tend to tell better stories (Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts), but American games tend to be better at actually delivering them (God of War, Half-Life.) Certain genres remain better in the hands of one shore or the other (FPS and RTS games in the US, Fighting Games in Japan) but the fact is, there's so many good games coming from every which way that even if there's a number of genres you flat-out hate (or just one or two you love) you'll find excellent examples of those genres on both shores, and you'd have to be a complete tit to write one off just because they make 'twitch fest FPS shoot-a-thons/mind-numbing poorly-written digital stories with a minigame attached.'

 

[420 BARON BONGHITS 420 [deprecated]]

That's just unnecessary. - Joe

 

[LordOmnit]

I've got class soon, so I'm going to try and make this as quick as possible while still making a point (if in fact you believe that I am able to make a point anymore).

GTA4 and Okami both without hype? GTA is still going to sell better! Why? Because it's GTA4, and people...

What was that about doing the same thing over and over again? The longer a game is, the more likely it is to grind. And having a series isn't inclined to being short.

And the news being some kind of actual basis for attributing GTA to the quintisential western game?

Only in the sense that (despite missing many things and omitting things that are too gruesome (sometimes)) the news of any country shows what's going on in it at any point in time, i.e.- what something is.

Ok, I'm talking about this little assertion: "There is always some point where you lose control for story purposes." You said always, that you will always lose control. Every other game I mentioned had a system setup where you never lost control...

I have never seen a game (with a story) where you never lose control that wasn't a twitch-y first person shooter with little to no story. Now let me qualify my statements that there are games where you never lose control, but there isn't much of a way to work a story in, because there will always be parts where explaining something will take longer than getting to the next plot point unless they put lots of grind there.

Ok... That has all different flavors of wrong in it. I'd say that by your definition all games are books, particularly choose your own adventure. But of course that's incorrect. MMOs, again, aren't choose...

Right, bad metaphor, my bad. Well, it gets pretty bland when you have to continually imagine that the random (thing(s)) you are fighting is some kind of villian or some other nonsense, sorry, I'll write a book about it instead of trying to further enrage myself by going, "Okay, okay, we are the (x) doing (v), and that is the doing (c) and that's (not what we want)... okay, okay..."
And quite right about MMO's, because they are just pathetic grind-fests as far as I care. If I want something that requires significant time-input I'll just play a Nippon Ichi game (which I do. Frequently).

Now you're just grabbing at anything to make your point.

No, I'm trying to make a fully-developed argument. Although I tend to meander around and fail at parts, I'm at least trying. Instead of directly insulting, but I get to that after a while too, so meh.

Halo is GTA?

Not quite, I don't see how GTA can ever be fun, while Halo can be quite fun in multiplayer.

So Final Fantasy VII? Oh wait, you were talking about American games... But I agree, transvestite long-haired bishounen look ugly to me too.

That makes no sense at all.

So now you're admitting Japanese games have generic plots?
And... Not increasing the amount of interactivity? As if that's any consolation? It still sucks! Even if we ignore that your point is grade-A balognium, is somehow not advancing a genre and making titles new and exciting and giving your fans their money's-worth something we should applaud?

Yes, I am actually saying that Japanese games CAN (NOTE THE USE OF THE WORD CAN) have generic plots, and considering the oceans of crap argument from before I think that we all can agree that any country can produce the same thing a million times in an ever downward spiraling mess of shit.
As for increasing the amount of interactivity, all the games you have EVER mentioned in ANY of your arguments have a crest of the amount of interactivity that they contain, which many of them are at. Having a low crest and a baseline are virtually the same thing, so don't get all snippy with me. I suppose this brings me to a point I was going to say later, but I'll say it here: FPS'S AREN'T GETTING MORE INTERACTIVE AS OF LATE, AND HAVE NOT BEEN GETTING MORE INTERACTIVE FOR MANY YEARS (since the not so recent past). You keep pulling this shit about interactivity, but you yourself have been listing games that have different settings and the same amount of interactivity. It is "higher" in interactivity than most RPG's, but that doesn't mean you need to keep spitting that up, god, I got it the first time that you need your twitch games (I know that somewhere, somehow, some-when, that will come back to haunt me, but oh well, the starter said herself that she was angry when she started the thread). Oh yeah, and also don't forget that the amazing amount of interactivity and diversity is about as diverse as... let's not go there, but basically it is run forward, shoot, run again while listening to an audiolog.

Right... Deep... Yeah... Umm... So Sora... He's the chosen one and he hit the badguys with his keyblade and they stopped moving. Whoooo. Deep storyline there. Oh no, Riku turned into a tall black man!

Oh my god! (Unnamed generic plot-advancing character) killed the little girl! Or he didn't! I don't know which one it is, but man that was freaking sweet when that dude in the diving suit blew up! You say that western games aren't dependent on story, yet what was all that hype about BioShock having some intruiging plot for then? I mean, come on, I HATE Orwell, but hearing about the plot base and ending for BioShock made me want to curl up with 1984.

Nah, acupuncture is bullshit http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0771272/

No, it isn't.

Anyway, it's twitch gameplay, but it engages the player in different ways at least.

Ah, this is where I was going to say that spiel about how twitch gameplay becomes grind. Congragulations, we have both made asses of ourselves.

Don't play the higher-road card with me. Go play GTAIV for, mmm... One minute. Then come back and tell me the violence in the game was without cause. Furthermore, don't argue points if you don't know what you're talking about.

I'm not taking that higher-road card, that's just how I am: an ASSHOLE apparently. I would say read Butsu-Zone and listen to Sennju, but it is a manga, you are tired of that sort of thing, and not everyone is CAPABLE of forgivness (not implying you or anyone else in particular if it seemed that way). I suppose that being a pacifist to a degree is unpatriotic, weird, non-normative, and (anything else that would make me evil by any authority other than pacifistic ones). Don't get me wrong, I like violent movies and I will play me some violent games every once in a while, but I'm not going to miss them in particular if I can't play them.

GTA (aside from it's token clones and offshoots) isn't like other games that take place in VanaD'iel or whatever. It's in (close representations of) American

Somewhere in there I think you weren't trying to say it is a simulation of criminal life, but you failed. Or succeeded so well that it was impossible to make a sarcastic remark about it. And I don't like "real-life" simulations, so maybe that has something to do with it also.

I look forward to your reply.