I do not understand the Tali fandom.
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Opinions without a basis in something are fairly worthless, though, as are poorly grounded opinions.Mackheath said:
Contrary to the usual "it's my opinion" nonsense, some opinions are more worthwhile than others.
For example, the original poster has put forth a very specific argument for why Tali is poorly characterized in these games. It's really hard to argue with that. At best, she seems to be curious and an outcast, but the later is poorly defined and to some level the former is a species trait, which should fall on par with job description.
I would like to see you make an argument for Mass Effect being the worst franchise in a long time that was even remotely as strong as that.
There are bad opinions, and there are wrong opinions. Opinions that belie facts, for example, are wrong. Having an opinion does not entitle someone to validity, but the basis of their opinions can.
And if I were to guess as to the real reason for her appeal, it's that she falls into the "nerd chick" category.
Actually i think a lot of Mass Effect teammates could've afforded more characterization. Ashley Williams has daddy issues and a sister who could kick Wrex's ass, Tali has daddy issues and is caught in the middle of a political spat of whether or not the Quarians should commit mass suicide in a war against a machine race they made, Garrus has daddy issues and became Shepard II until his team got slaughtered, Wrex has daddy issues and murdered his daddy over them, Miranda has daddy issues and a habit of shooting every single guy she meets, Jacob has daddy issues and really likes to savor the priiiize, and finally Mordin has no daddy so he kills remorselessly and sings Gilbert and Sullivan.
Yeah, real depth. Still though, Mass Effect gives the effort which is more than i can say about Halo. They could still do a better job though.
Yeah, real depth. Still though, Mass Effect gives the effort which is more than i can say about Halo. They could still do a better job though.
It was unsettling. I got the feeling that she admired Shepard like Samus admired Adam in Other M. She was referencing things he did when stuck in a bad situation, she apparently talks about you constantly with her friends, and she turns into a flustered schoolgirl around you in the second game. Add in her desire to commit genocide and/or mass enslavement of a race and you have a very messed up character.LiquidGrape said:
She is the quintessential woman every man wants.
Shes:
1. Strong and independent, yet willing to show her feelings to anyone she feels close with.
2. Shes able to speak her opinion in an educated way, without coming off as a b*tch. ((Example, Miranda. "I am made to be superior to ever other person in the galaxy and yet im still the most useless person to join your squad, and i disapprove of everything that isnt 100% by the books.".))
3. You already have a relationship with her before the game starts. ((lets face it, shes the nerd of the group. And a decent portion of video gamers are "nerds". I myself included, so we have see a sort of kinship with her because of her disposition.))
4. Shes mysterious. Because her face is hid, and she has a well proportioned body ((DAT A**)), she is the "Every Woman". She can look however we choose for her to look, and nobody is wrong.
5. She is the most vulnerable. The slightest nik to her suit will cause an infection. She is physically frail, and that a huge part of who she is. Shes the "damsel in distress" we all want to rescue, but to the extreme.
I could probably come up with more reasons if i were to really think about it, but those are the first ones i can choose of the top of my head.
I myself, am a Tali fan. Shes a great character, in a great series.
Shes:
1. Strong and independent, yet willing to show her feelings to anyone she feels close with.
2. Shes able to speak her opinion in an educated way, without coming off as a b*tch. ((Example, Miranda. "I am made to be superior to ever other person in the galaxy and yet im still the most useless person to join your squad, and i disapprove of everything that isnt 100% by the books.".))
3. You already have a relationship with her before the game starts. ((lets face it, shes the nerd of the group. And a decent portion of video gamers are "nerds". I myself included, so we have see a sort of kinship with her because of her disposition.))
4. Shes mysterious. Because her face is hid, and she has a well proportioned body ((DAT A**)), she is the "Every Woman". She can look however we choose for her to look, and nobody is wrong.
5. She is the most vulnerable. The slightest nik to her suit will cause an infection. She is physically frail, and that a huge part of who she is. Shes the "damsel in distress" we all want to rescue, but to the extreme.
I could probably come up with more reasons if i were to really think about it, but those are the first ones i can choose of the top of my head.
I myself, am a Tali fan. Shes a great character, in a great series.
This. You're making the assumption that the Tali fandom is based on rational thought. It's not, since the bulk of the more "extreme" talimancers are a bunch of creepy socially awkward weirdos. Same reason Merril picked up a creepy fandom in Dragon Age 2. You don't need to have a particular deep or interesting character for them to pick up a fan club. They just need to be sexually appealing to the lonely male nerd.The_root_of_all_evil said:
Personally I hate Tali. In the first game she was alright. Like you said no real character but there wasn't much bad about her either. In the second game we learn she's incredibly immature, selfish, and best of all racist. Yeah not exactly appealing.
I wasn't aware every man wanted to be married to a naive racist who support genocide.kouriichi said:
it is all a matter of personal taste. like for example i hate merril from dragon age 2, but some people adore her. i do like tali and i hate that she is dead(in my playthrough though T-T) why do like her? because of her people, her emotions and her way of thinking. is this personal? yes. is domeone wrong not to like her? no. but believe me, i don'tidolise her like some people do.
I honestly have no idea, there is even a name for the people that are obsessed with tali, their'e called TALIMANCERS.
Do not DARE googling that in images with safe search off.
Do not DARE googling that in images with safe search off.
Good effort, but I don't think that's sufficient excuse. Teenagers are not automatically without personalities or character traits. Allow me to continue with your example of me in high school (ouch!). I was shy, quiet, introverted, insecure and angsty. Think Hope from FFXIII but uglier and less talkative.GrizzlerBorno said:
Interesting? No, not at all.
Someone I'd want as a character in a game? Dear God please no.
Still had defining characteristics? Yes.
Oh, I didn't. As soon as she started with the you're-so-awesome business I loaded a previous save and went back to chatting up Jack. I looked up the other romance scenes (including Tali's) later on Youtube.
Casual Shinji said:
TheAmazingHobo said:
Nomanslander said:
Yeah... that train of thought did occur to me. However, I didn't really want to go there because:Gudrests said:
a) There's kind of an implied insult in there and I'm not out to piss people off. (Not any more than necessary, at least.)
b) Well... I'm a huge nerd who sucks with women and I found myself liking the vicious, psychotic, shaven-headed lady who tells Shepard to fuck off every five minutes. So yeah... not sure if the nerd-bait theory is entirely sound.
I'm not a rabid fangirl as you have probably seen by my comments in some other ME threads. I suspect Tali sets off my mothering instincts that I must have somewhere. In Mass Effect 2 though she's clearly grown up alot and doesn't need Shep holding her hand anymore. She should go with that nice Kal Reegar boy he seems a decent sort! (my god I am getting old)
I find it kind of wierd that Tali is a romance option and Joker, who arguably receives a lot more characteristion outside of his job, isn't. I have seen Talimancers argue against Joker being a love insterest because of his illness....
I don't even know where to begin with that lol.
The whole Geth thing makes me think that, for a young person, she is very inflexible in her views. This makes me dislike her a little, although she does soften to legion later on.
I'm not sure why people go mental over her, I barely saw her in ME1.
If I was gay...Jack ftw she is awesome.
(Although she does say to kill Joker at one point....but she doesn't know him so I forgive her...
)
I find it kind of wierd that Tali is a romance option and Joker, who arguably receives a lot more characteristion outside of his job, isn't. I have seen Talimancers argue against Joker being a love insterest because of his illness....
I don't even know where to begin with that lol.
The whole Geth thing makes me think that, for a young person, she is very inflexible in her views. This makes me dislike her a little, although she does soften to legion later on.
I'm not sure why people go mental over her, I barely saw her in ME1.
If I was gay...Jack ftw she is awesome.
(Although she does say to kill Joker at one point....but she doesn't know him so I forgive her...
)
She's a smart cookie, who has big expectations to live up to. That's pretty much all of us becoming of age.
Also, I particularly liked her underlying theme of unjustified racism.
Also, I particularly liked her underlying theme of unjustified racism.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/MassEffect - has a fairly sizable entry on Tali, if you want to see why she appeals to a lot of people.
One thing you have to remember is that like Legolas and Gimli in Lord of the Rings, in the first game Tali was serving as a representation of her entire race, so taking that away does leave her a little flat. The second game means a lot of what people loved about her in the first one is suddenly just a racial thing, but it doesn't mean people are going to stop liking her, and ME2 did try to make up for it by adding to her characterisation. Although I have to say, even as a big Tali fan I don't much like the sound of her romance path, even if it does kinda make sense. Personally, I play femshep, and even if Tali becomes same-sex romanceable in the third game no way am I cheating on Garrus. >.> When I do a maleshep playthrough, it'll be hard to pick between her or Jack.
It helps that a lot of people love Tali's voice acting (both the sexy accent and the actual quality of the acting). A good actor can play a large part in imbuing a character who seems flat on paper with more depth and likeability.
Also, nice of everyone to disregard the OP's "let's not be judgemental cunts" sentiment completely. If the "needy nerd girl" angle factors in that much, it's probably got as much to do with making her relatable as it does with making nerds feel like big men. Remember, A) a lot of Tali's fans are female and B) she had a rabid fandom even before the second game introduced the hero-worship stuff.
One thing you have to remember is that like Legolas and Gimli in Lord of the Rings, in the first game Tali was serving as a representation of her entire race, so taking that away does leave her a little flat. The second game means a lot of what people loved about her in the first one is suddenly just a racial thing, but it doesn't mean people are going to stop liking her, and ME2 did try to make up for it by adding to her characterisation. Although I have to say, even as a big Tali fan I don't much like the sound of her romance path, even if it does kinda make sense. Personally, I play femshep, and even if Tali becomes same-sex romanceable in the third game no way am I cheating on Garrus. >.> When I do a maleshep playthrough, it'll be hard to pick between her or Jack.
It helps that a lot of people love Tali's voice acting (both the sexy accent and the actual quality of the acting). A good actor can play a large part in imbuing a character who seems flat on paper with more depth and likeability.
Also, nice of everyone to disregard the OP's "let's not be judgemental cunts" sentiment completely. If the "needy nerd girl" angle factors in that much, it's probably got as much to do with making her relatable as it does with making nerds feel like big men. Remember, A) a lot of Tali's fans are female and B) she had a rabid fandom even before the second game introduced the hero-worship stuff.
Yeah, I've seen your avatar around the place. If my memory serves me correctly, you usually mention something about Joker being a...xXxJessicaxXx said:
... never mind.xXxJessicaxXx said:
Heh. Can you imagine if they had a subplot in ME3 in which Tali leaves Shepard for Kal Reegar? The fanbase would implode. There would be blood. Closely followed by mods.xXxJessicaxXx said:
Which is exactly why they should do it.
Totally agreed.xXxJessicaxXx said:
That would actually be a pretty good idea actually. I sort of liked Tali, but the romance option is just stupid and to be honest a little creepy considering Shepards relationship with Tali.Zhukov said:
I get the fandom for Garrus because he is a badass but Tali? I dunno, she was likeable I guess?
She reminded me very much of Aerie from Baldur's Gate 2; the strong yet insecure type constantly seeking approval from the main character between the occasional outburst of awkward flirting in that cute voice of theirs. It's one of the archetype Bioware love to use in their games!
Personally not a big fan myself. I'm more a sucker for the tougher sorts, Jaheira, Viconia, or in Mass Effects setting Ashley or Jack. At best I might get a twinge of big brotherly protectiveness over Aerie/Tali, but can't say I've ever been particularly intrigued by either in any other other sort of way beyond plot.
But then that's just me. I can sorta see the appeal, but truthfully this 'talimancer' thing has always seemed a bit obsessive and weird to me. Ah well!
Personally not a big fan myself. I'm more a sucker for the tougher sorts, Jaheira, Viconia, or in Mass Effects setting Ashley or Jack. At best I might get a twinge of big brotherly protectiveness over Aerie/Tali, but can't say I've ever been particularly intrigued by either in any other other sort of way beyond plot.
But then that's just me. I can sorta see the appeal, but truthfully this 'talimancer' thing has always seemed a bit obsessive and weird to me. Ah well!
A Tali doll?this isnt my name said:
I probably would get one if the price wasn't too outrageous.
lol busted *adjusts SR2 cap*Zhukov said:If my memory serves me correctly, you usually mention something about Joker being a...
... never mind.xXxJessicaxXx said:
xXxJessicaxXx said:
Well considering he is like a ''Quarian Shepard'' it would make sense. I totally wanted to meddle after the collosus.Zhukov said:
FemShep: 'Kal seems like a nice fellow. How many credits does he make? Is his family nice? Why don't you ask him for a date'
Tali: 'Sheeeepaaaard'
I get the mothering thing with Jack aswell.
Some of the romance scene where she runs to Maleshep crying and gets a hug would have fit for a paragon Femshep too I think.
I would play through the entirety of Mass Effect 2, solely to romance Tali, if that was written into Mass Effect 3. And I like the character of Tali.Zhukov said: